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metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
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 Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:24 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
he stole jeffs board and reversed engineered it.
let him post photos. then I will steal his work and sell it for 1/3 what he does because I can.
don't bother sending me any more p/m's. sponge info from your boy. he has all the answers, right?
i wish him well but what he did to jeff was fucked up. don't believe me, ask jeff yourself. |
i was not aware of those guys having beef. either way, the work speaks for itself.
i am not "sponging" info, just trying to have discussions and move the state of the art forward.
i don't have any skin in the game, i'm not here to make money.
i just thought we were two dudes into bay window buses with subaru conversations.
i don't get the attitude to be honest... i've been working in engineering and specifically innovation for multiple decades. openness and transparency are how everyone benefits and how an "industry" (even a tiny one like subaru conversions in bay window buses) grows.
all ships rise with the tide.
it's 2023, not 1939. anyone can buy a 3d scanner and buy someone else's shit and copy it. or just go on www.easyeda.com and start laying out a board.
EDIT: fixed typos :)
Last edited by metahacker on Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:49 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Shonandb
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019
Posts: 1196
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:26 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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As with everything, it's okay to have a different opinion than others.
I'm a DIY hack (as you can see in my build thread) but I don't do this as a business. Pretty happy with the resuts though.
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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image
Last edited by Shonandb on Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:41 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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also, i am pretty sure all those boards are derivatives of the diy spoof board that people posted on the diy subaru vanagon yahoo group like 15 years ago.
the more i think about this... the idea that autoventures "invented" the idea of having to add vss, tach, resistors and pots to an old Vanagon on a little pcb to not make a factory ecu freak out is kind of laughable TBH
this is like modern engine swap 101 stuff
where do you think the old smallcar board came from?
it's all iterative and solutions for obvious pain points
and here you try to slander me about our PMs and say you don't want to be my friend... OK. i've re read them all, you simply told me how many MPGs you got and whether you thought 170HP was enough... and that you don't want to try doing a CAN BUS swap and don't like 6 cylinders. i'm not really sure why you would want to misrepresent our private interaction in a public forum like this. i would prefer to be friends, personally. but that's up to you at this point.
man i really hit a nerve. if i jumped in the middle of some beef with the av guys, i am truly sorry. i like jeff a lot he is a really nice and helpful person. either way, i don't think it's beneficial to this thread to go any further down this path.
transparency, innovation and competition are all good things for the bus community
what autoventures, modernbay, smallcar, fellows, vancafe, rjes, busaru, etc etc are all doing is great.
cheers |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4921
Location: Southern AB
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| Shonandb wrote: |
As with everything, it's okay to have a different opinion than others.
I'm a DIY hack (as you can see in my build thread) but I don't do this as a business. Pretty happy with the resuts though. |
I'm definitely the DIY guy too, If I can do it and learn something new ...
LOL reminds me of the time I saw the Scandinaviansidebike.com website and said $2000, hell no, I can build that .... yes I did, but building one that looks like a bus out of carbon fiber and add up all the hours... we passed 2 K a long time ago  
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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TheModernBayCo 
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2020
Posts: 5
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
he stole jeffs board and reversed engineered it.
let him post photos. then I will steal his work and sell it for 1/3 what he does because I can.
don't bother sending me any more p/m's. sponge info from your boy. he has all the answers, right?
i wish him well but what he did to jeff was fucked up. don't believe me, ask jeff yourself. |
By all means, please do ask Jeff. He's an amazing guy; I just personally reached out to him about this after seeing it. I have zero beef with him, and wasn't aware of any in the other direction. I certainly didn't steal his board or reverse engineer it to make mine.
Jeff's board is a great piece of engineering that's still better than mine is for Vanagons and other applications that need things like adjusting the factory temp gauge to read correctly, which my (Bay Window) buses don't need. It does a ton of stuff and I'd highly recommend it to folks, as well as giving Jeff your business should you need it. He's a legend in my book.
FWIW, my unit is specifically made only for Bay Window Buses (if it wasn't obvious by the shape), and for how I wire them to make the UI/UX easier for me and other folks to use. I built in a Test Mode, LED indicators for the fans, spots to put wires that normally just get hung out to dry when they go nowhere on most swaps, etc etc. Plus all the normal code emulators (read: resistors). Not that it bears on this conversation, but I have an MS in Engineering. No need or desire to copy anything from anyone; like all my stuff, I engineer products that best suit the Bay Window Bus application - and that application only. And even more - it's the part of my job that I love the most.
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| let him post photos. then I will steal his work and sell it for 1/3 what he does because I can. |
If you'd like to see pics and video, just follow me on IG or Youtube @modernbayco and you can see for yourself. I'm posting stuff all the time. I have 33 more how-to Youtube videos in the queue at the moment which will publish this year.
And Don, for what it's worth, reading this on here sucks. I don't know you, but if you have some sort of problem, call me directly or send me your number and I'd be glad to talk to you person-to-person.
Here's my stance: The more Bay Window Buses that stay on the road, bringing joy to people, the better, and I don't care so much how they get there.
I will say that up to this point, Don, I've personally recommended you and your work to literally dozens of people over the last two years. I've had more conversions in the pipe than I can handle for the last two years, and am glad to send business to other shops such as yourself or others for folks who can't wait so long to get on the build schedule. Regardless of your bedside manner, you seem to do respectable work. Up to this point, I've recommended you to nearly everyone who inquires, actually. You and Jeff.
As @metahacker pointed out,
| Quote: |
| "all ships rise with the tide" |
. Or in our case, "a rising tide carries all Bay Window Buses". I wish you the best in your work, and hope you continue to help all of us keep the Bays on the road.
Reach out any time if you're up for talking. Thanks, |
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Clementine79
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2019
Posts: 320
Location: WA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:13 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| TheModernBayCo wrote: |
Here's my stance: The more Bay Window Buses that stay on the road, bringing joy to people, the better, and I don't care so much how they get there.
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Thats the way I see it, whatever keeps these bays rolling and in use is great! Be it a Corvair, Subaru, Type 1, Type 4, Cologne, EV, etc.. We see so many here in town sitting in fields or being scrapped out for parts.
I love seeing your stories and posts, its very inspiring and I think your work is top notch with the utmost attention to details.
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1979 VW BUS
Riviera Penthouse Model |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16885
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:28 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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Travis my beef with you goes back to when you were advertising YOUR work in MY threads.
I have zero interest in talking anything over with you. I never set out to be a subaru swap shop. As you'll find out there is NO money in it comparted to normal service. I do them because I enjoy them.
That said, in an 8 hour day I average 15-22 billable hours on daily driver stuff. On rusty buses/bugs etc it's hour for hour. You do the math...
A big part of why I stopped posting these swaps here was the bullshit, including Gashog's build and the one that just got delivered yesterday...and the 4 others on deck won't be posted either.
I saw your work on the exhaust jig and just had to laugh, it's a blatant copy of another vendor.
and believe me when I say...I have zero issues with anyone trying to do these conversion. What I do hold issue with is someone copying someone else's work.
and just to show you I'm not a total asshole I'm going to give you a piece of advice, and take it for what it's worth....
if you think for one minute you're making money building some of the sub systems (exhaust/shortened oil pan etc) and it's available off the shelf then you need to look at your business model....I'll give you a perfect example...
Shortened oil pans are around 400 bux. By the time you clean one, cut it, weld it, leak check it, ultrasonic clean it, paint it, shorten the pick up tube, leak check it and ultrasonic clean it you're into it for an easy 5 hours.
if your door rate is 100/hr you lost 100 bux. Doing ever bit of these 'in house' will put you into the poorhouse pretty quickly....BTDT.
Best of luck....
to the o/p sorry your thread went sideways, but it wouldn't be a subaru swap thread on the samba if it didn't.....
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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TheModernBayCo
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2020
Posts: 5
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 8:49 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| Travis my beef with you goes back to when you were advertising YOUR work in MY threads. |
You mean nine years ago, this specific thread?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7876150
Look back at the thread, Don. You brought me into that one as well, not me:
In fact, here is your quote, in your thread, here, mocking the first version of the site I'd put up when I had placeholders for all the prices, etc:
If anyone should have beef with anyone, I believe it should be me with you.
I don't know you from Adam, yet I've recommended dozens of people to you based on the work I saw years ago in your old threads. Yet you have literally, publicly said "fuck you" to me, disparaged me and my work, mocked me, insulted me. And you refuse to talk to me directly. Why?
Just like I tell my grade-school kids in regard to people who may bully them, online or otherwise, responding to people like that - giving them the time of day - is almost never worth the time or energy. And usually people who act like that toward you do so because they're jealous of who you are or something you have. Back in the 90's, when I was in school, it was because I was the quintessential smart, uncoordinated, nerdy kid. Maybe things don't change as much as you think over time. Or people. Anyhow, not worth further conversation here. Like I said earlier:
Here's my stance: The more Bay Window Buses that stay on the road, bringing joy to people, the better, and I don't care so much how they get there.
Keep doing good work to help our buses stay on the road. Enjoy what you do. Help others where you can. There's just no room or need for this kind of stuff on The Samba or otherwise.
A rising tide carries all Bays.
Cheers and best wishes,
Oh - and re: this, just to put this to bed:
| Quote: |
| I saw your work on the exhaust jig and just had to laugh, it's a blatant copy of another vendor. |
In the photo you referenced, the header part of that exhaust is Vancafe's literal actual header. They're just up the road, and Mike and Trevor and the gang up there are great. I've bought loads of these from them - literally stuffed a corner in the rafters with them. The jig helps me assemble the rest of the exhaust as a quality, welded stainless unit, not held together with clamps etc.
I don't manufacture every nut and bolt and piece of this. But I've assembled what I feel like is the best conversion system on the planet through a combination of building my own stuff and working with great partners. It's how the world goes round.
Cheers and best wishes to you, again, and to all us bus owners seeking to keep our Bays out there adventuring. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16885
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:20 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| TheModernBayCo wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| Travis my beef with you goes back to when you were advertising YOUR work in MY threads. |
You mean nine years ago, this specific thread?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7876150
Look back at the thread, Don. You brought me into that one as well, not me:
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what a short fucking memory we have....
no, it was this one, and others you posted in under a different username...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7876602#7876602
any time I posted something you made sure to stick your nose in, I had enough and finally called you out in that thread. I don't have time to dig back more at the moment but I think you made sure to poke in anything I did subaru related with "hi, Travis here with the modern bay" I finally had enough and called you out in that one.
I might be dumb, but I'm not fucking stupid. it was pretty clear what you were doing. When I have time, I'll happily crawl back in time and pull up more threads if you'd like....
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:56 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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boy, last night must have been one hell of a party. Y'all are all grouchy this morning.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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TheModernBayCo
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2020
Posts: 5
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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@SGKent, hey! And right!? Except my party was picking up the fam at the airport at 11PM and getting back at 1AM. Good times 
Anyhow, back to the show, apparently. 
skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
Don, you linked to the exact same thread that I did.
Read the thread, and tell me if it was you baiting me, just like this one, or if it was actually me jumping in and bringing myself up.
And please show me other threads where I ever jumped in. I'd love to see them.
This is asinine, not worth anyone's time - you, me, or the good people here. I've got too much work to do to publicly dilly-dally with you about this. And I'm sure you do too.
So go do your work - keeping Bays on the road, I'll keep doing the same, and please reach out any time you'd like to talk to me as a human instead of being brave with a bottle of Cap, sitting behind your keyboard.
Stop bringing me into threads like these (or like yours, above!). Best wishes to you, yours, and your business. Keep saving the Bays. |
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Shonandb
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019
Posts: 1196
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| W1K1 wrote: |
| Shonandb wrote: |
As with everything, it's okay to have a different opinion than others.
I'm a DIY hack (as you can see in my build thread) but I don't do this as a business. Pretty happy with the resuts though. |
I'm definitely the DIY guy too, If I can do it and learn something new ...
LOL reminds me of the time I saw the Scandinaviansidebike.com website and said $2000, hell no, I can build that .... yes I did, but building one that looks like a bus out of carbon fiber and add up all the hours... we passed 2 K a long time ago
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Hey W1K1
Love the bike Bus shell build!
Let's get this thread back on track and topic.... Any updates on your progress on anything other than the harness?
_________________
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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image |
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Vangabonders
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2013
Posts: 174
Location: Chattanooga TN
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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Get the wiring diagram and pinout. Do the harness yourself, be man. This doesn't apply to Skillz as he is the man regardless of doing his own harness work 
Link
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73 tintop to poptop westfalia (Frankenbus) |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4921
Location: Southern AB
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:04 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| Vangabonders wrote: |
Get the wiring diagram and pinout. Do the harness yourself, be man. This doesn't apply to Skillz as he is the man regardless of doing his own harness work
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I have a whole bus to assemble, so for me getting this job done right the first time, I'm willing to pay someone for it. And that's saying a lot, I'm a cheap SOB.
I'm still unsure on the header/exhaust to get, or do I just order some exhaust flanges and build it?
I did order the throttle body reverser and cable kit from RJ Eng, it looks like a nice setup to go with my Buttys bits gas pedal linkage.
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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blue72beetle
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2008
Posts: 846
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:49 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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I should probably start my own thread or continue in my Bus thread, but I'm jumping on this train also. I did what everyone says NOT to do, and they're right. I bought an engine without a car, and that makes it more difficult to do a swap. But I like a challenge and I'm sure I can do it, I mean I put together a Megasquirt FI engine myself.
I've got the 2.2L engine, ECU, and a hacked up wire harness from a 95 Legacy. Just got a bunch of tune up parts and an alternator relocation bracket in the mail. Going to order gaskets and head bolts and such from Subaru. Not sure yet what exhaust and engine mount I'm going to use. For cooling system I'm going to copy someone's on here, VeeDubNut I think. Why mess with success. It's all going to take awhile, I don't expect to have it done this year. At least I can drive it with it's aircooled engine while I'm collecting parts and working on it.
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-Andy-
-1970 Ghia-
-1971 Bus 1776 Microsquirt EFI- |
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Vee Dub Nut
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2004
Posts: 1184
Location: Dallas, GA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| blue72beetle wrote: |
I should probably start my own thread or continue in my Bus thread, but I'm jumping on this train also. I did what everyone says NOT to do, and they're right. I bought an engine without a car, and that makes it more difficult to do a swap. But I like a challenge and I'm sure I can do it, I mean I put together a Megasquirt FI engine myself.
I've got the 2.2L engine, ECU, and a hacked up wire harness from a 95 Legacy. Just got a bunch of tune up parts and an alternator relocation bracket in the mail. Going to order gaskets and head bolts and such from Subaru. Not sure yet what exhaust and engine mount I'm going to use. For cooling system I'm going to copy someone's on here, VeeDubNut I think. Why mess with success. It's all going to take awhile, I don't expect to have it done this year. At least I can drive it with it's aircooled engine while I'm collecting parts and working on it. |
There are a lot of EJ's running successfully on Megasquirt, so plenty of support out there to get the maps sorted for those engines. I think you'll do just fine.
Reach out if you have any questions on my setup, I'm happy to point you in the right direction. I've shared notes with lots of people. Mines still rock solid at 4+ years and 17k miles later. In fact, on the computer tonight planning our upcoming trip up to Asheville (and Charlotte) via the Blue Ridge Parkway 
_________________
Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006
67 Beetle (TBD)
74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4921
Location: Southern AB
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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I ordered the RJ engineered solutions throttle body reverser and accelerator pedal cable kit, the cable kit came with instructions, but the the throttle body kit didn’t have any information, and the website only has one picture
Anyone have some pictures of one of these kits mounted up?
The coil mount wasn’t making any sense on the spare manifold from the PO since it doesn’t have the same mounting points as the engine
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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Shonandb
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019
Posts: 1196
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:01 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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I went with Busaru's throttle body reverser so I can't really comment about the RJES kit mounting instructions. Reach back out to them and see if they can send you instructions or point you to someone's build that shows it.
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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4921
Location: Southern AB
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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I just figured someone might have used theirs so I can see what it looked like installed. I'll send Richard an e-mail and see if he has any pictures other than the website.
Next question head gasket kits ? I've read Fel-pro is a good choice for head gaskets? or genuine Subaru MLS?
And then there's the timing belt kit.... I'm at 120K KM's (75k miles) on the current belt, but I think it's been longer than the recommended 7 year replacement interval, it was changed when the PO put the replacement motor in
Looking on the Subaru forums it seems Aisin Engine Timing Belt Kit has replaced Gates as the go-to company, since Gates was cheaping out on bearings in the idlers and had some early failures
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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Shonandb
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019
Posts: 1196
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| W1K1 wrote: |
I just figured someone might have used theirs so I can see what it looked like installed. I'll send Richard an e-mail and see if he has any pictures other than the website.
Next question head gasket kits ? I've read Fel-pro is a good choice for head gaskets? or genuine Subaru MLS?
And then there's the timing belt kit.... I'm at 120K KM's (75k miles) on the current belt, but I think it's been longer than the recommended 7 year replacement interval, it was changed when the PO put the replacement motor in
Looking on the Subaru forums it seems Aisin Engine Timing Belt Kit has replaced Gates as the go-to company, since Gates was cheaping out on bearings in the idlers and had some early failures |
I went with new Subaru MLS headgaskets, head bolts, cam & crankshaft oil seals, intake & exhaust valve seals, timing belt, and rocker gaskets & seals but went with the Aisin Timing kit including the waterpump. Aisin is part of the Toyota Group (Tier 1 & 2 supplier to Toyota) and have to produce parts to meet Toyota's requirements/quality standards.
I also heard that Gates switched a few of their Tier 2&3 suppliers a number of years ago and have had regular quality issues since. I recruited for Tier 1 and 2 automotive suppliers in Japan for over 10 years when I worked in Tokyo and would pick a Japanese parts supplier whenever possible as even their JVs in China and other parts of Asia have hands on Japanese engineers at the JV locations to ensure quality.
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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image |
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