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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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joescoolcustoms wrote: |
If you run Type I inner cv’s and 944 outside cv’s, pay super close attention to properly clocking the cv’s. If they are just one spline off, the 944 cv will beat up the Type I cv. |
You are absolutely correct! I didn't realize that the axle spline was identical between type 1, 2 and 944. I wonder why they say the 944 axles are stronger if they are the same diameter?
So I could have just run Type 1 inners! Oh well, the flanges are on order now, too late!
I just pulled one of the outer CVs apart. The balls look like new, the outer races look good but the inner one not so much!
I have a spare Bus CV and I have also in the past turned one like this around so that it normally rests in a different spot and got a whole lot more miles out of it. It would then be driving against the opposite surface. I will wait and see what the rest look like before I get too excited. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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I got the 944 donor suspension out and home today. If I was starting from scratch with a fresh pan, this whole thing would get welded in. What a sweet setup! Complete with a sway bar. Just need to add a front transaxle mount.
_________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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Well, look at that! The EMPI jig doesn't fit the 944 pivot bracket!
_________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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More issues. The park brake shoe linings have failed on one side.
The 944 brackets are much narrower than the EMPI brackets.
The 944 through bolts are smaller.
And this end is completely different.
So... do not let anyone tell you that the 944 control arms are a bolt on. They absolutely ARE NOT!!! Can I make them work? Yes I believe I can. At this point though I am thinking seriously about abandoning the EMPI brackets that don't fit the 944 control arms anyway and cutting the brackets off the 944 torsion tube to use.
As for the EMPI jigs... waste of time and money! They don't fit. I believe I can get it closer using the 944 control arms as jigs. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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I understood the bushings had to be changed to beetle in order to fit. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9145 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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Unless those rotors are way above minimum spec they are junk to. Now I remember why I never swapped out the rear for 944 stuff when one was given to me. Good luck with the swap. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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My brake machinist has the rotors done already. I just need to pick them up.
I plan on changing the brackets to match the 944 stuff. I think it will be simpler and quicker. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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Beetle to Bus IRS conversion flanges arrived.
... seems... according to the Dr... I have torn my right rotator cuff. Don't recall doing anything that would have caused that but here I am in the middle of this project with the usual spring chores and activities and I am all gimped up!
Frustration is setting in... _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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Comparing some more parts, first is the torsion bars. Not interchangeable, two different lengths. I suspect the IRS Beetle would be the same though but the swing axle ones are shorter. No problem as I wanted to use the 944 ones anyway for more load capacity with the heavier type 4 engine.
The rubber bushings are different too but it looks like I can use the Beetle ones on the 944 parts.
_________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
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Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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What are the diameters of the two torsion bars? Just curious. Typical Beetle short bars are either 21 or 22 mm. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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The Beetle's are 21mm and the 944 has 23.5mm bars. Same splines on the ends though. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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Moving on to the torsion bar retaining caps. There is a significant difference here too! I suppose I could have cut down and filed the 944 pieces but modifying the Beetle ones is simpler. I do believe the IRS Beetle caps would have been a direct bolt up but that is not what I have.
First impression was to cut the spot welds and punch out the cap in the middle... didn't work! On closer inspection they aren't little center caps, these units are two separate stampings just spot welded with 4 tack welds.
Plan B is to machine out the centers instead.
Fits nicely!
_________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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I am quite surprised that someone has not piped up here with their Beetle/944 swap. I talked to a chap I Saskatoon about a couple years back. I saw a Baja Bug behind his shop that had this swap done. "No idea," he said "it belongs to a guy who used to work for me." When inquiring on this site a while back it sounded like it was a common thing.
Well, if I am a pioneer here, so be it. Maybe someone in the future can benefit no matter the outcome. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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BIGMIKEY Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007 Posts: 1104 Location: North East Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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I have 944 torsion bars and spring plates on my Deserter with 1969 chassis. I had to cut the 944 bushings off. Beetle bushings do fit. Some clearance grinding was needed to the VW shock towers for the adjusting nuts on the inner side of the torsion spring plates. But my chassis was CV joint type so not sure if you will need to grind that area on the swing axle type chassis.
Mike T _________________ BIGMIKEY
Deserter Series 1 project.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=787047&highlight=
1973 Beetle Driver, Marina Blue. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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There we go! Thanks!
Yes I will watch for that. I am looking forward to that extra adjustment the 944s had. And yes those rubber bushings are hanging on pretty tight. I might have to cut them off too.
Did you fund the bars changed the ride very much? _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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BIGMIKEY Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007 Posts: 1104 Location: North East Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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I used a coarse twist wire wheel to get the remains of the bushing off. Works slick. The buggy is still under construction so haven't driven it yet. The Deserter has an 84" wheelbase vs 80" for most other buggies. I figured it will be somewhat heavier especially with my 300lbs carcass in the seat. So I hope the extra spring rate will be OK. Preliminary test drive should be this summer. But you'll probably know before I will how it rides. Enjoying your thread. I oughta do one for my build I guess.
Mike T _________________ BIGMIKEY
Deserter Series 1 project.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=787047&highlight=
1973 Beetle Driver, Marina Blue. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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No more progress, we have 3 grandsons here on spring break so... teaching them to run the wood splitter (after digging it out of a 5 foot snow drift). No personal agenda there of course! Then I taught them how to tap trees to make maple syrup. Yesterday we spent most of our day shooting gophers. Sounded like WW3 but in the end there was a few dead ones.
Today we will break out the sand rail and the remaining bluebird nest boxes and have a morning of learning to drive a stick between hanging the boxes. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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slayer61 Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2021 Posts: 1015 Location: CA
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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That actually sounds like MORE fun than working on the buggy. A fine weekend indeed! _________________
Cusser wrote: |
... Most folks are idiots when it deals with electrical !!! |
67rustavenger wrote: |
3/4 race cam? What's missing, one of the lobes? |
Paul
'68 Manx clone... Sears??
2276 built on AS21 case
W-125 w/ GB 1.25:1 rockers
Mahle forged pistons
CB 4340 crank
CB H beam rods
deep sump
44 HPMX
EMPI GTV 2 STG II wedge ports
CB Magna spark
1 5/8 merged collector w/ hater stinger |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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I had a dig around in my junk yesterday and found something I had forgotten about. A pair of early 944 trailing arms. These do appear to use the same inner mount bolts as the IRS Beetle!
These trailing arms were free-be's, looks to me like someone used the stub axles and brakes for a project and discarded the arms. It also appears that the brakes have a very different mounting system than the later 944s.
More research needed. Company coming for the weekend... _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Getting ready for summer |
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Maple syrup run is finished, company gone I am trying to get a bit more progress on the Buggy with gardening season looming...
I have been on a Porsche forum asking questions. It appears that these "early 944" control arms are actually Beetle control arms! Oh well, they were free... and have badly rusted up wheel bearings. I now have a good pair of Beetle stub axles...
I also found out the the '86 944 aluminum control arms are not wider than the early steel ones. '87 and on are so that is good in the fact that it will help to keep the tires under the fenders where they belong. I ordered a set of 225-70-15 tires and theory tells me that will give me 3000 RPM at 68 mph. Nice cruising gearing compromise I hope!
So start the day with swapping out the winter tires for summer ones on the Jetta, it is now the first of May so not too much of a chance for a snow storm now. Then on to important things! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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