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T3DoKaSy16" Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2023 Posts: 1 Location: LE, Germany
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:23 am Post subject: Re: 2003 Eurovan MV VR6 24V manual swap notes |
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shirk wrote: |
Got digging around for some info after going down a bit of a rabbit hole.
I was chatting with a German T4 owner on IG and he mentioned that a friend of his did a Syncro manual trans swap on a long nose with the DHR gearbox. He didn't have much for details and while waiting for him to reply I started digging.
The DHR was fitted to the later 2.5 TDI engines. This engine is an Audi derived engine. VAG has mated a VR6 to versions of Audi gearboxes...but how. A factory adapter plate.
Enter 071103551A adapter plate.
From some reading I believe Audi has been consistent with their engine mount pattern so this adapter should allow the VR6 to mount up to the later model T4 gearboxes opening up a much bigger list than the elusive AFL.
More digging needed to confirm, but thought I would share. A 24v VR6 manual syncro would be mighty fine project. |
Hello from Germany, I did build a 24V VR6 combined with DDA - Typ: 02D Gearbox, plus 6 Gear Conversion and rear locker. Still pretty similar problems with the ECU. I did all the wiring new, so no remains of the aut. trans. Had a donor EuroVan with the 24V in it.
I am about to put a documentation of it online in the German t4froum. If there is any questions about the build, I ll try to answer them as my time allows me to.
(I am thinking about selling the converted Syncro, V624V, 6 gear trans, rear locker, runs on LPG, Reimo PopUp, Seikel, lots more - if the price is right and fair) |
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EuroTec Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2020 Posts: 382 Location: Asheville, North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:59 am Post subject: Re: 2003 Eurovan MV VR6 24V manual swap notes |
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So more "notes"...
I've come up with a new version of the transmission emulator that uses the same 7 solenoids and ribbon cable that are in the valve body of the 01P/01M. It's a much nicer package it's all inside a fully enclosed box.
A couple customers had codes coming back for solenoids 4 & 6. These two solenoids measure about 6 ohms. The relays are around 80. This new kit solves that issue.
While I was at it I decided to explore the possibility of making a jumper for the multi-function switch that makes the TCU "think" it's in Park or Neutral so that the starter will work without having to rewire anything.
HOWEVER, there's a problem with this.
The ECU maps the throttle differently when in P or N as opposed to being in D. When it's in P or N the throttle actuation is harsh and "clunky". When it's in D it's smoother and easier to modulate. So, the jumper I supply that makes it think it's in D is best.
The new version of the emulator is $10 more so $275 buys one.
_________________ If it ain't broke, don't fix it! |
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EuroTec Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2020 Posts: 382 Location: Asheville, North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:01 am Post subject: Re: 2003 Eurovan MV VR6 24V manual swap notes |
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So more "notes"...
I've come up with a new version of the transmission emulator that uses the same 7 solenoids and ribbon cable that are in the valve body of the 01P/01M. It's a much nicer package it's all inside a fully enclosed box.
A couple customers had codes coming back for solenoids 4 & 6. These two solenoids measure about 6 ohms. The relays are around 80. This new kit solves that issue.
The solution for the two customers was to send them a prewired 6 ohm solenoid that plugged into the relay socket. Of course, no charge for this upgrade.
While I was at it I decided to explore the possibility of making a jumper for the multi-function switch that makes the TCU "think" it's in Park or Neutral so that the starter will work without having to rewire anything.
HOWEVER, there's a problem with this.
The ECU maps the throttle differently when in P or N as opposed to being in D. When it's in P or N the throttle actuation is harsh and "clunky". When it's in D it's smoother and easier to modulate. So, the jumper I supply that makes it think it's in D is best.
The new version of the emulator is $10 more so $275 buys one.
http://hackaweek.com/hacks/donate/
_________________ If it ain't broke, don't fix it! |
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IgoR_KilleR Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2023 Posts: 4 Location: Bydgoszcz, Poland
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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: 2003 Eurovan MV VR6 24V manual swap notes |
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Hello everyone!
Thank you Dean for this brilliant idea, but I have a few questions.
I'm struggling with a few things.
Today I built a relay version of the emulator. Unfortunately, it didn't work. The computer shows the solenoid valve error to all except the 6th solenoid valve (the one that is not connected to ground (or maybe there is a "+" there? If so, why didn't it work). I bought the relay sockets with rectifier diodes to prevent induction. I suppose I need these diodes Another error is from the automatic transmission speed sensor, even though I shorted both pins as you said.
Another thing is that you do jumpers on both speed sensors. As for the gearbox speed sensor, it's pretty obvious, I don't understand the idea behind the jumper on the second speed sensor. Will it not be needed to run the cruise control? I would prefer to install this 1.1Mohm resistor just in case and because the computer shows an error of this sensor.
One more thing. How did you manage to short the selector pins in position D to avoid ignition problems? If I remember correctly, when it's in D position, the engine won't start. How did you do it? I was thinking of installing a switch in the interior to change N to D after ignition, but it seems you solved it smarter than I couldn't find in your posts or video.
Greetings from Poland |
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EuroTec Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2020 Posts: 382 Location: Asheville, North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:34 am Post subject: Re: 2003 Eurovan MV VR6 24V manual swap notes |
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IgoR_KilleR wrote: |
Hello everyone!
Thank you Dean for this brilliant idea, but I have a few questions.
I'm struggling with a few things.
Today I built a relay version of the emulator. Unfortunately, it didn't work. The computer shows the solenoid valve error to all except the 6th solenoid valve (the one that is not connected to ground (or maybe there is a "+" there? If so, why didn't it work). I bought the relay sockets with rectifier diodes to prevent induction. I suppose I need these diodes Another error is from the automatic transmission speed sensor, even though I shorted both pins as you said.
Another thing is that you do jumpers on both speed sensors. As for the gearbox speed sensor, it's pretty obvious, I don't understand the idea behind the jumper on the second speed sensor. Will it not be needed to run the cruise control? I would prefer to install this 1.1Mohm resistor just in case and because the computer shows an error of this sensor.
One more thing. How did you manage to short the selector pins in position D to avoid ignition problems? If I remember correctly, when it's in D position, the engine won't start. How did you do it? I was thinking of installing a switch in the interior to change N to D after ignition, but it seems you solved it smarter than I couldn't find in your posts or video.
Greetings from Poland |
I used standard relays without a diode. I rewired my starter circuit to solve that problem, that way the adapter that makes it show drive is in effect and therefore maps the throttle better. I really need to provide a wiring diagram of that to share.
Cruise control works on mine with the three wire sensor connected at the axle. Mine is a 2003 with the cruise control as part of the ECU, not a separate unit.
Unsure why your jumpers aren't having any effect on speed sensors.
What year is your van? What engine? _________________ If it ain't broke, don't fix it! |
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IgoR_KilleR Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2023 Posts: 4 Location: Bydgoszcz, Poland
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:57 am Post subject: Re: 2003 Eurovan MV VR6 24V manual swap notes |
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EuroTec wrote: |
IgoR_KilleR wrote: |
Hello everyone!
Thank you Dean for this brilliant idea, but I have a few questions.
I'm struggling with a few things.
Today I built a relay version of the emulator. Unfortunately, it didn't work. The computer shows the solenoid valve error to all except the 6th solenoid valve (the one that is not connected to ground (or maybe there is a "+" there? If so, why didn't it work). I bought the relay sockets with rectifier diodes to prevent induction. I suppose I need these diodes Another error is from the automatic transmission speed sensor, even though I shorted both pins as you said.
Another thing is that you do jumpers on both speed sensors. As for the gearbox speed sensor, it's pretty obvious, I don't understand the idea behind the jumper on the second speed sensor. Will it not be needed to run the cruise control? I would prefer to install this 1.1Mohm resistor just in case and because the computer shows an error of this sensor.
One more thing. How did you manage to short the selector pins in position D to avoid ignition problems? If I remember correctly, when it's in D position, the engine won't start. How did you do it? I was thinking of installing a switch in the interior to change N to D after ignition, but it seems you solved it smarter than I couldn't find in your posts or video.
Greetings from Poland |
I used standard relays without a diode. I rewired my starter circuit to solve that problem, that way the adapter that makes it show drive is in effect and therefore maps the throttle better. I really need to provide a wiring diagram of that to share.
Cruise control works on mine with the three wire sensor connected at the axle. Mine is a 2003 with the cruise control as part of the ECU, not a separate unit.
Unsure why your jumpers aren't having any effect on speed sensors.
What year is your van? What engine? |
VW T4 Caravelle 2003, AMV engine (204hp 24v)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the second speed sensor is the one connected to the driveshaft, so my mechanic who did the mechanical part of the conversion told me to leave it where it is and not short it with any jumper. Or is there another one? I shorted only one speed sensor connector, however the computer indicated only automatic transmission speed sensor error.
I cut the diodes from the relays and will try again today. |
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IgoR_KilleR Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2023 Posts: 4 Location: Bydgoszcz, Poland
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 9:09 am Post subject: Re: 2003 Eurovan MV VR6 24V manual swap notes |
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Ok, so I cutted off the diods and it works! No selenoids errors! Only a speed sensor error left.
I put a 1.1MOhm resistor on one of the speed sensor plugs - and suddenly I got 2 errors instead of one So I shorted it back. I think I found the second speed sensor plug, but it's plugged in somwhere and I can barely reach it. I'll try to unplug it tomorrow and short it as well. Hope it will not cause any harm
As for the selector plug, unfortunately I don't know how to change the ignition circut so that it fires in position D. I figured I'd install a switch inside the cabin, which I can short pins 5 and 7 for the time of starting the engine, and then I will switch it back so that only pins 2 and 3 are shorted for position D. |
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paddygarcia Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2020 Posts: 89 Location: VA
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 10:14 am Post subject: Re: 2003 Eurovan MV VR6 24V manual swap notes |
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Dean, hopefully this is OT given that this thread is notes on the swap.
Your kit included the bracket for the stub axle. Is that the same as the one for the automatic? Best I can tell they are, but my MT stub axle doesn't want to line up. I could encourage it to move farther back into the bracket, but don't want to damage anything.
EDIT: nm, searching the parts diagrams shows that the AFL/DYA uses bracket 02G409905A, versus the automatic 02G409905B. Have to go back to my supplier. |
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IgoR_KilleR Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2023 Posts: 4 Location: Bydgoszcz, Poland
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:20 am Post subject: Re: 2003 Eurovan MV VR6 24V manual swap notes |
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paddygarcia wrote: |
Dean, hopefully this is OT given that this thread is notes on the swap.
Your kit included the bracket for the stub axle. Is that the same as the one for the automatic? Best I can tell they are, but my MT stub axle doesn't want to line up. I could encourage it to move farther back into the bracket, but don't want to damage anything.
EDIT: nm, searching the parts diagrams shows that the AFL/DYA uses bracket 02G409905A, versus the automatic 02G409905B. Have to go back to my supplier. |
Yes, the axles differs between the automatic and manual transmission. |
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gordonfogarty Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2024 Posts: 1 Location: Co Down
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:45 am Post subject: Re: 2003 Eurovan MV VR6 24V manual swap notes |
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I am in the closing stages of a manual conversion on my 1997 12v VR6 T4.
I am using a O2G diesel gearbox (with same ratios as VR6 petrol).
I have had an adaptor plate made and have modified the gearbox accordingly to account for the plate thickness.
I have used a VR6 Golf flywheel and clutch.
I have left the TCU in place and just disconnected the gearbox cable connectors.
I am now only missing a pipe for the clutch.
Fingers crossed on the closing stages and 1st start / drive .
Gordon |
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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:48 am Post subject: Re: 2003 Eurovan MV VR6 24V manual swap notes |
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That is interesting! Keep us posted. _________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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EuroTec Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2020 Posts: 382 Location: Asheville, North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: 2003 Eurovan MV VR6 24V manual swap notes |
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gordonfogarty wrote: |
I am in the closing stages of a manual conversion on my 1997 12v VR6 T4.
I am using a O2G diesel gearbox (with same ratios as VR6 petrol).
I have had an adaptor plate made and have modified the gearbox accordingly to account for the plate thickness.
I have used a VR6 Golf flywheel and clutch.
I have left the TCU in place and just disconnected the gearbox cable connectors.
I am now only missing a pipe for the clutch.
Fingers crossed on the closing stages and 1st start / drive .
Gordon |
Sweet! Let me know if you want a transmission emulator to make the check engine light stay out.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10019646#10019646 _________________ If it ain't broke, don't fix it! |
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