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OldSchoolVW's Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020 Posts: 686 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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zerotofifty wrote: |
Lunar rover for the space shuttle? fire fighting on the Moon? The video is ridiculous. No mention of the abc rating, just a long discharge time, no mention of what it is made of. Fights fire at the molecular level!
Fumble the striker cap and drop it and you have wasted time activating it, opps the cap rolled under the burning car, now what?
seems more like a gimmick than a serious fire fighting tool. |
Well ... it looks like it works ... in the Element videos on YouTube. There are other videos that test the product, like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAjlLscIizI
that show less than impressive results. You can jump to 3:08 to see how it did with gasoline in a barrel containing a variety car parts and materials. Gee, I dunno ... _________________ Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2667 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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I understand the chemistry. It works in theory. Potassium Nitrate FYI is SALTPETRE used for explosives manufacture.
For what it is worth it is too directional for me. It still requires you to open the engine lid to get it to work. This just admits more oxygen that the Potassium salts have to deal with.
And yes, the striking mechanism is just too cumbersome.
Stick to a gas mixture. It gets into every crevice. _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9145 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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I had to fight 2 engine bay fires in my automotive career.
One was a leaking fuel line fire in a BMW 535i, the other was an oil leak in an RX7. Both cars were in the shop on hoists 3 bays down from me. In both cases I was there in under 15 seconds after both fires started with bottle in hand, pin pulled, ready to go on an open hooded car and I have certified training. I didn't have to slow the car down, get to the side of the road, dig out my extinguisher or open the hood.
The 535 fire used just about all of a 10 lb bottle to extinguish the engine fire and the fire on the ground from the ruptured, burnt fuel lines, burning wires and plastic parts. I had about 2 seconds worth of chemical when I emptied the bottle.
The RX7 fire took 2 10lb bottles to keep the fire out as the fire caused a bigger oil leak and the exhaust manifold was hot enough to keep reignited the oil and then gasoline as the fuel lines burst.
IMO those little extinguishers are for show cars, and having them mounted where you have to move a seat or bend under the dash, reach in and flip a latch is wasting precious seconds. They might put out an air filter fire.
If you have never witnessed an engine fire from a leak, you would be amazed how fast and how hot they get in seconds. There is usually a lot of fuel or oil leaked in the engine compartment before there is ignition so the fire is usually large right from the start.
I have a 10lb bottle cage mounted on the passenger front leg in my exrace car, a 10lb on board system in my current race car and don't even bother with anything in my street buggy.
If I had a sealed engine compartment I would definitely look at getting a blaze cut to hopefully knock down the fire immediately and then have a 10lb in case it didn't. |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 1558
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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slalombuggy wrote: |
I had to fight 2 engine bay fires in my automotive career.
One was a leaking fuel line fire in a BMW 535i, the other was an oil leak in an RX7. Both cars were in the shop on hoists 3 bays down from me. In both cases I was there in under 15 seconds after both fires started with bottle in hand, pin pulled, ready to go on an open hooded car and I have certified training. I didn't have to slow the car down, get to the side of the road, dig out my extinguisher or open the hood.
The 535 fire used just about all of a 10 lb bottle to extinguish the engine fire and the fire on the ground from the ruptured, burnt fuel lines, burning wires and plastic parts. I had about 2 seconds worth of chemical when I emptied the bottle.
The RX7 fire took 2 10lb bottles to keep the fire out as the fire caused a bigger oil leak and the exhaust manifold was hot enough to keep reignited the oil and then gasoline as the fuel lines
IMO those little extinguishers are for show cars, and having them mounted where you have to move a seat or bend under the dash, reach in and flip a latch is wasting precious seconds. They might put out an air filter fire.
If you have never witnessed an engine fire from a leak, you would be amazed how fast and how hot they get in seconds. There is usually a lot of fuel or oil leaked in the engine compartment before there is ignition so the fire is usually large right from the start.
I have a 10lb bottle cage mounted on the passenger front leg in my exrace car, a 10lb on board system in my current race car and don't even bother with anything in my street buggy.
If I had a sealed engine compartment I would definitely look at getting a blaze cut to hopefully knock down the fire immediately and then have a 10lb in case it didn't. |
My kit car caught fire, fuel pump outout nipple worked its way off the fuel pump casting, Caught fire while driving, engine stalled, I pull over to see flames out the deck lid louvers!
Grab the 4 pounder dry chemical as I swung out of the car, open the deck lid and attacked. It was the last bit of flame just snuffed out just as the media and pressure petered out. Lots of fuel, plastic, rubber, on fire. It was almost not enough extinguisher, but it was enough.
Had a freight truck on a loading dock engine catch fire at my work, over a dozen dry chem extinguishers, big boys, 20, 30 pounders or CO2, all lay empty on the ground, yellow powder all over around the truck, people keep bringing them out of the factory, which had a lot of them. never ran out of extingushers , then the fire department arrive and it took a three inch hose from a hydrant to put it out. And they used a breaker bar to open the hood to dose the flames fully. Fire guy said we made a valiant effort. haha
Point is a 5 pounder may save your car, or someone else's car, but then again it may not, but better than not trying.. a bigger one is better still. But one key thing is how rapidly you can deploy it. The fire will eventually get too big for any extinguisher. If you can knock it down fast enough you can snuff it.
If the fan is working, fresh air is exchanged rapidly, that needs to be cut immediately. If the lid or hood can be safely opened, even part way and opening will, gain you access to the base of the flames, then do it. Attack should be directed at base of flames,
A rookie mistake is premature extingation. The occurs when the well meaning extingusher user prematurely discharges while not close enough to direct the media at the base of flames.
The dispersal pattern of media is too wide when too far away, which means your very limited supply of fire fighting media is wasted on areas not at the base of the flames. You want all the media directly on target, spread around it dont help. get is close as you can to target, then discharge! (for best results) _________________ Give peace a chance. No American war with Russia! |
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AlmostHeavenWV_VW Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017 Posts: 1965 Location: WV
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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My set up as described earlier _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle
1600DP AK case
Solex 34PICT3 Carb
Bosch DVDA 205AJ Distributor |
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mclumber1 Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2008 Posts: 313 Location: Henderson, NV
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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My 68 is still a work in progress, but this where I've decided to mount my fire extinguisher:
I made a mount out of plywood that is painted black. The mount is bolted to the front of the passenger seat track. _________________ 1968 Beetle |
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harrymarlin Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2018 Posts: 718 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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It's great to see a fire in an open bowl being put out, but I'm having trouble finding any videos of any actual car fires (not staged, with the hood open) being put out by *any* personal fire extinguisher. Anybody have one? _________________ -Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia |
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harrymarlin Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2018 Posts: 718 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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harrymarlin wrote: |
It's great to see a fire in an open bowl being put out, but I'm having trouble finding any videos of any actual car fires (not staged, with the hood open) being put out by *any* personal fire extinguisher. Anybody have one? |
After going through a lot of staged/promotional videos and videos of firefighters (or people in firefighter equipment) putting out car fires, I did find this one. Coincidentally (??) it's a Beetle. I'm really surprised he didn't burn his hand!
Link
_________________ -Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia |
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harrymarlin Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2018 Posts: 718 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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Well, this is timely!
Link
_________________ -Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia |
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AlmostHeavenWV_VW Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017 Posts: 1965 Location: WV
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Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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harrymarlin wrote: |
It's great to see a fire in an open bowl being put out, but I'm having trouble finding any videos of any actual car fires (not staged, with the hood open) being put out by *any* personal fire extinguisher. Anybody have one? |
You likely won't find a video of a real world example. Most car fires become fully involved and the car is likely a total loss within mere minutes. Especially our ACVWs.
The fire dept expends *thousands* of gallons of foam and/or water to put out such fires.
The in car extinguisher is for snuffing the fire at the first sign. If you don't put it out in the first 2 minutes, there isn't a handheld extinguisher on the planet which will do it. _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle
1600DP AK case
Solex 34PICT3 Carb
Bosch DVDA 205AJ Distributor |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 1558
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Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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harrymarlin wrote: |
It's great to see a fire in an open bowl being put out, but I'm having trouble finding any videos of any actual car fires (not staged, with the hood open) being put out by *any* personal fire extinguisher. Anybody have one? |
I have done it, but no video. _________________ Give peace a chance. No American war with Russia! |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7300 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 6:01 am Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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Anyone familiar w/this unit?
https://www.amazon.com/Jogoswall-Automatic-Extingu...mp;sr=8-13 _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76889 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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1/4# in a late model with 4 rows of vents is useless. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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OldSchoolVW's Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020 Posts: 686 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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Have a look at the reviews. How can someone give it 4 & 5 stars and then say, "Hope I never need to find out that it works" and "Hope to never use them" and "if this unit works as it is advertised" and "Great if works" and "hope it works, if I need it" ?
Seems "peace of mind" comes all too easily for some folks. Implement as many of the preventative measures as possible, go ahead and invest in a suppression system to buy time if you like, carry a fire extinguisher (or 2 or 3) and hope the VW gods are smiling on you if a fire does occur. _________________ Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7300 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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This thread made me paranoid. In addition to my fire extinguisher, I bought and just installed this blaze cut.
_________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76889 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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vamram wrote: |
This thread made me paranoid. |
You should be with that plastic distributor cap and cheap fuel regulator. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7300 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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Glenn wrote: |
vamram wrote: |
This thread made me paranoid. |
You should be with that plastic distributor cap and cheap fuel regulator. |
Thanks. It a made -in-USA regulator, not the pi crap one, and a cheap Empi cap, bfd about the cap. When was a cap the cause of a fire? Couple of Bosch spares in my trunk. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76889 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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Those caps are clear so you can see sparks.
If you use gaskets to adjust the fuel pressure, you won't need a regulator.
BTW, my friend's Thing burnt to the ground when the regulator leaked. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7300 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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Glenn wrote: |
Those caps are clear so you can see sparks.
If you use gaskets to adjust the fuel pressure, you won't need a regulator.
BTW, my friend's Thing burnt to the ground when the regulator leaked. |
Too bad about his Thing. Ultimately everything burns to the ground because something leaks. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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OldSchoolVW's Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020 Posts: 686 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Fire extinguisher in Beetle...? |
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vamram wrote: |
This thread made me paranoid. In addition to my fire extinguisher, I bought and just installed this blaze cut.
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Please put a hose clamp on the input side of the fuel regulator ... today.
I think the BlazeCut was a good investment. As I've said before, it can help buy you time to get back there with a fire extinguisher (or 2) to hopefully finish the job of putting out the fire. That said I would suggest reinstalling it with the curved loop at the top of the deck lid where the vents are. Flames and heat rise and that is what will cause the BlazeCut to spray. This is how I installed mine:
_________________ Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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