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Burdmahn
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:48 pm    Post subject: reduction box adapter Reply with quote

So I know these used to made, but it looks like anyone selling them has long since gone out of business, but I wonder if anyone has a line on a set of adapters to mount big nut gear reduction boxes on beetle spring plates? My neighbor gave me the old swingaxle from his bus in trade for a minibike, and the concept of an extra 1:1.26 and maybe some ground clearance on my buggy has got my interest piqued, especially as the last time I changed the gearbox oil on the swingaxle in my buggy, some pieces of gear came out with the oil. Hell, it might even make the gearing a little more appropriate with my 31" tires.

Even if someone has drawings or pictures of a homemade adapter, thatd help. It wouldnt be the first time Ive had to fabricate some long discontinued suspension parts.
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: reduction box adapter Reply with quote

Here a couple of pictures of different ways to mount reduction boxes in a Bug.
With the solid mount to springs when you accelerate the rear end will raise up because off the axles before the reduction boxes are turning backwards.

The No hop serum is better
The Johnny Johnson setup does not do this a axle tubes swivel where they mount to spring plates. This setup requires disassembling axle tube to put tubing with a flange on it to mount to spring plate. It requires a 1/2 in of reduction box to be cut off for spring plate to be mounted at proper angle.
This setup is what both my Dad and I built for our Baja Bugs back n the 1970s

Hopefully you a a fabricator.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Burdmahn
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: reduction box adapter Reply with quote

Ah, thanks, thats the best pic Ive seen yet. What book is that, may I ask?
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: reduction box adapter Reply with quote

This book from 1970 by Bob Waar has the adapter blocks pics
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



This book by Jeff Hibbard from 1983 has pics of the No Hop setup
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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BFB
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: reduction box adapter Reply with quote

The rear raises due to the “instant center” that the suspension makes. I have a Baja with RGB and 4 link set up , under acceleration it stays completely neutral and neither raises or squats. If i were to lower the instant center more it would actually squat under acceleration.
First time i put the RGB in i just cut down some old spring plates so i had the mounting hole side and welded them to the RGB, notch over the axle tube, and then was able to just bolt the car’s spring plates to the new mounts like it’d have been on the old swing arm. I was worried about axle wrap and force on the spring plate from the RGB so I fabbed a brace that went from the bottom of the RGB op to the center of the torsion tube ( i welded a threaded cap to the end of the tubes ). This all worked great i just didnt like how the rear raised so then i made the 4 link.
Also, if you can picture that brace going from the lower part of the RGB to the torsion tube, thats pretty much the angle of the instant center. If you look at the Johnny no hop kit, you’ll notice the front of the lower mounts hang down below the torsion tube, lowering the instant center.
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RWK
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: reduction box adapter Reply with quote

I had the JJ "no hop" redux adapters in my baja in the late 80s, worked well couldn't break them, had a T4 powering it also.
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2023 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: reduction box adapter Reply with quote

jsturtlebuggy wrote:
This book from 1970 by Bob Waar has the adapter blocks pics
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



This book by Jeff Hibbard from 1983 has pics of the No Hop setup
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Those 2 are good sources of info.

Actually that Jeff Hibbard book is the 1988 or later "Revised" edition. At the time it was revised I was racing with Jeff in a 1600 buggy. I was doing the prep. He wanted to do a revision and update, but had sold all of his copies. So I loaned him my copy of the original version to work from in revising the book. I never got it back. But when the new version was in Editing, he gave me a test print copy to provide my input and editing. One of my edits was missed in the final version, but it's no big deal. I still have that book, as well as Bob Waar's Baja Prepping VW Sedans & Dune Buggies book I bought from the NORRA Chief of Tech, who was the manager of San Fernando Buggy, makers of Glitterbug fiberglass buggies and Hi Jumper tube frame buggies (both of which I have). I also have my copy of Jeff's 1st self published book that led to the HP book that is so well known.

It would be cool for someone to write a new book like that and publish online.

But both of those books are still VERY relevant and VERY good sources of info.
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2023 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: reduction box adapter Reply with quote

Richard,
I do have the first edition too. It has been used so much by friends and myself it fell apart and I had to put it in a binder.
Great book to have. There are a few different pictures between the original and revised copy.
From what I have heard that The name Bob Waar was a pen name of John Thawley a Technician Editor of Hot Rod Magazine at that time who wrote the first book on off roading in 1970.
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DHale_510
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: reduction box adapter Reply with quote

Yes, John Thawley wrote as Bob Waar because he was employed to write for a magazine and the books were kind of a no no. It didn't work, they fired him. He passed a few years ago but his son John Thawley Jr is around and writes an occasional motorsports themed article, but I don't think about any off road stuff.
I coached him at Willow Springs several years ago for a vintage road race event and met his father. Quite the characters both of them.
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: reduction box adapter Reply with quote

I wish somebody made something to put Reduction boxes on IRS trailing arms.
I wish I was still running the water jet machine at my old job, I would like to design a reduction box that use quick change gears from a circle track QC rear end, then you could swap gears and have just about any finale drive ratio you want.

eQ
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Ian
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2023 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: reduction box adapter Reply with quote

Here's one I did a few years back:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I had my buddy cut some 1/4" steel using a normal Bus springplate as a template. Then welded it to the Bug springplate and used an aluminum spacer and some new hardware. You will need to swap the Bus nosecone for a Bug one.
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2023 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: reduction box adapter Reply with quote

Ian wrote:
Here's one I did a few years back:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I had my buddy cut some 1/4" steel using a normal Bus springplate as a template. Then welded it to the Bug springplate and used an aluminum spacer and some new hardware. You will need to swap the Bus nosecone for a Bug one.


Unless you have a 1960 or earlier split case trans Bug, then the Bus box nose cone is needed to set the height of the nose correct on the early mount bracket. My 58 still has the early 60s Bus nose cone on its IRS trans.
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BFB
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: reduction box adapter Reply with quote

dustymojave wrote:
Ian wrote:
Here's one I did a few years back:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I had my buddy cut some 1/4" steel using a normal Bus springplate as a template. Then welded it to the Bug springplate and used an aluminum spacer and some new hardware. You will need to swap the Bus nosecone for a Bug one.


Unless you have a 1960 or earlier split case trans Bug, then the Bus box nose cone is needed to set the height of the nose correct on the early mount bracket. My 58 still has the early 60s Bus nose cone on its IRS trans.


I’m a little lost on that comment, but i can say that my large nut RGB dropped right into my ‘65 without any nose cone changes and shift rod hooked up like normal. I did run the solid mounts though but they just bolted up like any ‘ol type 1 would
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Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.  
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: reduction box adapter Reply with quote

jsturtlebuggy wrote:
Richard,
I do have the first edition too. It has been used so much by friends and myself it fell apart and I had to put it in a binder.
Great book to have. There are a few different pictures between the original and revised copy.
From what I have heard that The name Bob Waar was a pen name of John Thawley a Technician Editor of Hot Rod Magazine at that time who wrote the first book on off roading in 1970.


DHale_510 wrote:
Yes, John Thawley wrote as Bob Waar because he was employed to write for a magazine and the books were kind of a no no. It didn't work, they fired him. He passed a few years ago but his son John Thawley Jr is around and writes an occasional motorsports themed article, but I don't think about any off road stuff.
I coached him at Willow Springs several years ago for a vintage road race event and met his father. Quite the characters both of them.
Dennis


I've wondered about your "DHale_510" user ID. My parents met at a road race in '53. So I grew up involved in road racing. Been to Willow Springs a time or a thousand. Can almost see it from my home.

If it were still published, Baja Prepping VW Sedans and Dune Buggies would be a fine companion to Jeff Hibbard's book and would still be selling plenty of copies. Much of it is still relevant.
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Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
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