Rob's Motor and Bus Build

[Clatter]

Had a big day out in the shop yesterday!

Took the P&L apart, rings off and everything wiped down.
First thing to do is make sure we didn't get a bad set.

'Bout half a thou variation in different ways.
Mostly between sets, some barrels were a little bigger at the bottom.
Not bad, really.
Better than some AA sets we've had.
We'll keep 'em.
Went ahead and engraved numbers in everything to keep track.

4 1/2 or so is a bit on the loose side,
But since we have a bus here, I'm not upset.
No need to break-in gently.. Run it hard!

Still,
I fell it's worth it to touch off with a hone.
Just a few seconds with 240, and then 600.
Different directions, and wiped down clean between.

Cleaned up in the sink with hot soapy water and a worn-out Scotch-Brite.
Even still, a paper towel after with some WD-40 to stop rust shows grit.
Can't help but think the iron used is just dirty...

Blowing it dry, sand kept coming out between fins.
Chased a bunch of it out with a skinny pick.

Cleaning out pistons, and especially inside the pins,
They balanced exactly the same.
Within a gram right from the factory...!
Pretty cool. Never seen that before.

P&L all cleaned up and bagged and boxed and ready to go.

Moved on to rods.

We'll skip right to the finish, as i showed all this in the Cheap Junk build.

Balanced end-to-end, "bulletin" oil spray grooves, big end smoothed out, wrist pin oil holes opened up.
Plus, all deburred, especially at the parting line, and clean cleaned.

A whole day of stuff that doesn't need done.
"You don't need to do all that, it'll run fine without it".


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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Superseded...

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

@Clatter, you make reference to iron when you do a final pass with WD40 and a rag/shop paper towel... Obviously those are cast iron (stock) barrels. Do folks ever think about using aluminum/Nikasil barrels?

[SGKent]

Steve - there should be a fine mark where the Sunnen measuring device measured the bearing size. It will be about 1/8" or so inside from each edge and be circular. Make sure it goes all the way to the part line and crosses it. Sometimes a machinist with the best intentions doesn't do that and the rod can be pinched. The cap only needs to be offset .0005" to have a .001" pinch. It can only be picked up by measuring both sides as one passes over the part line. I resized thousands of rods for a living once, it is the most common mistake made and easy to to. I looked for the scribe mark but could not see it in this photo. It will be really faint but there. The second photo shows how a cap can be a tiny bit off when honed. One side (arrow) can be wider than the other if the cap is pinched,

This is probably something like what the machinist measured with. The arrow points to the small piece that would have left the a line like a scribe line. I don't know what else to call it.

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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Clatter]

[Clatter]

[SGKent]

steve - my buddy had Msc Tilton build him two engines for the SCCA Road Atlanta finals years ago. Mac was building Pail Newman's winning SCCA engines that took him to a championship. The first engine half spun a bearing on lap two in practice and bent the rod severely. A couple more revs and the engine would have been full of air holes. Leland felt the power going away and killed it just in time. Mac and several other extremely well known engine builders looked over the rod, crank etc., for a couple hours and could not find the flaw that caused it. Bill was at Road Atlanta for one of the big buck teams so I went and borrowed him. It took Bill about 20 seconds to spot the cause. Just because the rod is perfect in size over 90% of it does not mean that the other 10% is dead on. Trust me, I have done many rods that took a second time because the variation was too great to do in one honing. The reason Bill spotted the cause was that the scribe marks did not go 360 degrees. I personally won't accept a rod that has been resized unless the scribe lines left by the gauge go 360 degrees. I had to teach the guy who did RIMCO's rods that 15 years ago. What you will normally see is that the measurement is a little wider at the part line. That is Ok. But if either side is narrower it is not Ok. Human hands and wrists don't wind 360 degrees so it takes some wind up in the shoulder and arm to be able to do a 360 measurement without jiggling the gauge. The point is, it only take 5 seconds a rod to see if the scribe lines go 360. If not have the guy checK them. 95% of the time they will be fine. The other 5% will be glad we caught these.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Clatter]

Got a little time yesterday..

Detailing out the case a bit before it goes to vapor blast.

Big flappy casting flash on top of case where it shows.
Also factory black sealant that doesn't come off in the tank.
Using a bigger fine-tooth burr for the initial.

Finish up details with small super-fine burr.

You could chase this stuff forever - clear to polishing the whole case.
Near the top is my bigger burring and it's tooth marks that chased a big parting line,
But below that, you can see some factory work.
They obviously used a coarse 5 or 7-flute bit,
And just skimmed off the flash.

Still,
Crazy to think that they did this much hand work BITD.
My hand cramps enough in an hour or two.
Imagine doing it all day...!

Pretty cool the 'overtemp fallout coin warranty validator' thingie a past rebuilder put on.
Good sign the center hadn't fallen off already, right?
Case had two of them, and they're staying.
Another way to verify overheating is always welcome, eh?


Plenty of flash between fins on the bottom of the sump,
But,
Really,
Comes a point.

Who's going to be crawling underneath a bus looking at how finely the sump fins are detailed?

Still,
Cleaned up some dings from road debris, or a sloppy engine pull years ago,
Should be worthy of a blasting now!
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[tricyclerob]

Rob here.
Case looks great! Biggest concern was really the top of the case that shows and that cleaned up nicely. Thanks Steve!
Like my second grade teacher said, "neatness counts!"

Collaborating on an engine build from the left coast to the right coast is interesting. Lots of text messaging!
I've been doing cars, boats, motorcycles, etc for 60 years and know a bit about a lot of things but VW internals is not one of them.
Steve has been providing a real education in that regard. [I have a lot to learn]

But, I haven't been sitting on my hands. Chasing parts and welding, repairing and fitting tin, [on my old motor]

I did find a company in the Netherlands that has a lot of the hard to find rubber bits, as well as engine tin by the piece. Shipping is a little more but if you can't find it anywhere else...
https://bus-ok.nl
One week shipping. Not bad.

Steve suggested removing the air pump bosses on the fan housing.
Another great idea.

What goes where? Diassembled 15 years ago. Way too many projects.

Fan housing off to vapor blasting.

Although Steve is doing all the heavy lifting at least I can contribute something...

robj

[Clatter]

Nice!

Motor's gonna look sweet.

We were discussing finishes.

Rob's bus is orange.
I think painting all of his tins to match would look tidy.
Orange tins.. Blasted fan shroud.. With shiny socket head cap screws...

What y'all Think?
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[tricyclerob]

[RWK]

Nice build! I use these flange head screws now for tin and other 6mm applications, tired of fighting old stripped out slotted head screws

Also for case cleaning try ultrasonic, they are more common now,
pics are of 2 cases, used and one cleaned in ultrasonic, notice it did not take off all the sealant, second dip will remove it I was told. I removed some of the galley plugs prior, looks very clean inside now.

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73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[Abscate]

You are a serious boltaholic when you know the exact number to order where the picker loses patience and just throws in another 50 pack on your order instead of counting it out


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.ssS!

[Clatter]

Nice post Rob..

SHCS are nice for all of the fasteners that hold the halves of the fan shroud together.
Fan shroud rarely comes apart, and the recesses are perfect.
They’re so front/center..
It’s also satisfying to get all of the shoulders the right length in the different locations.

As for tin screws,
Stainless with separate washers can give you fits.
Because some of the tin needs added after the motor gets stabbed,
You’ll be doing screws way back in a cramped compartment even in an ideal situation.
If ever you end up having to pull tins later for any kind of work,
Fasteners will get dropped.
Little nooks/crannies will eat them.
Stainless won’t allow the use of a magnet to retrieve.
And separate washers? Ugh.
Those things find places to wedge and hide forevermore.
They find tin seams as if by magic.
I’m too anal to have a loose washer somewhere in the compartment location unknown.

I’ll offer that those Germans were right clever in their cheesehead-with-attached-washer design.
It’s damn practical.

I’ll admit to having polished stainless button-heads on a motor or two,
But the foul language they generate can definitely alarm neighbors,
Even a half mile away.
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[tricyclerob]

Rob here.

While Steve's been busy dealing with engine parts, I've been searching out all the missing bits and pieces of my tin, and all the rubber bits to seal it up. Also searching out heating system parts, all of which were MIA on my Westy.

But back to the screws for the tin for a moment. I took Steve's comment about loosing washers to heart, but I really wanted to use the larger conical washers and the stainless screws. [stubborn AND persistent...]
I pondered a solution and came up with small silicone washers that would go under the lock washers to prevent them from coming off the screw and yet not interfere with the washers locking action. I bought 4mm and 5mm and I think the 4 may interfere less with the locking action of the washers, but either will probably work fine. [And seal the holes].

I can't do much about them not being magnetic but at least if they're dropped I'm not just looking for a washer...

I did pick up the fan housing from Vapor Blasting. To be honest although very clean and very smooth, [much smoother than glass bead dust left them] they didn't look quite as nice as some MC engine cases I've had done. I think the castings are a little more porous and the magnesium content may have been a factor.

Now trying to decide what to coat them with. Probably Sharkhide Aluminum Protectant from Eastwood. Very pricy, [$72 a quart] but I have some from another project. Frame rails on an aluminum boat trailer. It was crusty and I DA'ed the entire thing, [with a nice pattern]. Used Sharkhide on it and it's still looking good 7 years later.

I never realized how many bits it took to properly seal the engine tin. I actually have an OEM paper parts book and I have to say having part numbers really helps when searching stuff out.

Bits;

And more bits;

Many of the rubber parts, [and some metal parts] just didn't appear to be available in the US. I found 2 sites, one in the Netherlands and one in Germany that really seemed to have some items impossible to find in the states.

One, "Bus-ok.nl" in the Neatherlands had many hard to find parts but the shipping was a little high. But, parts I couldn't find elsewhere. [shipping was a week-10 days] They had the Heat Exchanger Air inlet cover plates -[missing on mine] They also had new tin parts!

https://bus-ok.nl

The other in Bargteheide, Germany also had a good selection and their shipping was quite a bit less. [they had the gasket for the heat exchanger cover plates]

https://www.csp-shop.com/en/

One last thing. Scored a like new VDO Cylinder head Temp gauge and kit off eBay. Appears they are NLA.

Also ordered some of the correct orange paint for the tin, so that decision has been made.
All in all some good parts hunting.

robj

[Clatter]

Yeahman!
All about the details..

Stuff's been going on in the background,.

Crank came back from Ed's a couple weeks ago,
Jim caught that the rod journals were several tenths over spec.
Been fun to see how my measurements compare to two pro machinists.

Robert at Schroeder's in Seaside was going to be doing a spin balance of the lower end.
Check out his balancer.

Winona's got herself a big brown beaver and she shows it off to all her friends..


Link


Funny, i used to not include the key,
Because I never guessed that the balancer was picking up anything that small and close to center.
Robert schooled me that he has to compensate for the keyway doing his balancing,
So now i stab the gear and key.

Robert also has a polisher,
So he can take a thou or so off the rod journals.
He also wasn't impressed with the finish.
So he'll polish the whole thing.

Sucks that it takes four day-trips across the bay area to get a crank right,
But it takes what it takes these days..
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Case got tanked here locally and then off to vapor blast.

The guy "did us a favor" by dousing it in some kind of preservative oil.

So now it's back off to another tanking.
And the guy gets me for another $100!

Takes what it takes, right?
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Rob got a set of new Dansk '72-'74 heater boxes and sent them to Jet Hot.

They showed up in a huge box wrapped in piles of paper..

Couple of little dings and scuffs, but pretty nice.
They'll get more.
They're heater boxes after all...


These are known for having a more crudely-cast heat sink.
Also didn't see any insulation.
Let's hope that coating doesn't off gas.

Here's factory for comparison.

Misalignment at the flange kind of sucks.
I'll get in there with a stone or burr on a long shank and try to blend off this shelf.
Should be OK.

Here's what i was really worrind about..
Do they fit the heads?
Factory boxes aren't the best in this department to be sure.

Stoked to see the fit is spot-on.

Gasket flange is slightly smaller than port,
A little blending and gasket-match should suss this right out.

All in all,
These look workable at this point.
There's a risk associated with coating these things before they've been fit.
Especially with aftermarket parts.
While it remains to be seen how they fit the other tins, fan shroud, etc.
So far so good.
May major worry of head fitment is a non-issue.

Long as Rob doesn't need top heat on the coldest of days,
I'm thinking these might just do the trick.
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Still waiting on the crank guy to finish up balance and polish..

Spent a bit of time looking at heads.

AMC heads supposedly have issues with casting flash blocking airflow through cooling fins.
Got a set of factory heads out to compare.
Factory OEM on left, AMC on the right.
They're damn close far as i can tell...

AMC might have fewer tiny cooling passages right above the exhaust port.

Factory heads have a couple more little cooling air passages.

AMC might be a little better above the plug by the intake.

Vs. factory:

Maybe the reports of bad flash are from newer generations of AMC heads?
Perhaps it's the AA heads with this issue?



New CB intake manifolds are -luckily- smaller than the ports.

Dychem and scribing for some port-matching.
Sharp eyes will notice they also got scribed with cylinder numbers to keep them together once matched.

Can't help but move on to ports.
Dag, the factory bowl cut is shallow,
And castings are off.
This will be flattened/blended once the die-grinder comes out.

Unshrouding on the exhaust side will help.
Pretty crowded by the chamber..

Got this old exhaust valve ground down so it sits low in the seat.

Gives room for me to unshroud, as well as chase that sharp edge left from the seat cut.

Once i go ahead and commit to spending a day all covered in ATF and chips,
We'll get these heads on their way.
Until then, good to get a game plan going...
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Good day today..

Crank back from balancing and polish.

Put another cleanup on.
This brush assortment came from HF.

Started intake ports.
Knocked down that fat ridge at the edge of the bowl hog cut.

Smoothed out with the smaller burr.
Pretty stoked on these castings.
Often core shift will leave the seat sticking into the port.
Not the case here.

Matched manifolds.
Didn't need much.

Left the manifolds slightly smaller than the ports.
Studs are a bit big/loose in the manifold holes.
No matter how they end up shifted over,
There won't be a 'step' sticking into the flow.

Couldn't help but detail mani speed holes.

Surfacing on the plate.

Always interesting how they clean up.
Wonder what makes this 'concavity' on the mounting surface?
Material relaxes over time?
Cut while still hot?

Cruised the whole port to give an even finish.
Also took out rough parting line.
Didn't open it up, just straightened it out.

Intakes are all done.
Pretty stoked how they came out.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?