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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3898
Location: Seattle, WA
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 Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Stick shifter won't go into any gear! Transmission dead? |
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Re clutch disk: most of the NEW clutch disks I get for my 1600 bus engine come from the factory with
LESS than 2 mm from surface to rivet. You have to understand that the specs you read in the Bentley pertain only to original parts as supplied by VW. What we get nowadays are not original parts, even if they come from the "same" manufacturer (i.e. the same brand name, most original VW suppliers are long gone in everything but name). Even the "Genuine" VW parts from VW Classic Parts in Germany are not always exactly the same as originals.
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Stick shifter won't go into any gear! Transmission dead? |
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| beetleman217 wrote: |
Thanks guys for the feedback. I ordered the Sachs TO from busdepot:
https://www.busdepot.com/113141165b?qty=3
Any experience with it?
The oil seal and flywheel o-ring were both replaced when engine was rebuilt, and have approx 6000 miles since.
The clutch is Luk brand, it all looks very good, but the plate is the part that wears out the most, that’s why I asked to judge its looks. I’m leaning toward leaving it alone. |
I'd run with the parts that are in there since they are fairly new. Replace the TO and pilot bearing. Also replace the felt. Use the stock bearing They usually last a long time. Put a little grease in it but not so much it slings.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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beetleman217
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2011
Posts: 515
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Stick shifter won't go into any gear! Transmission dead? |
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So I was able to finally pull out the damn pilot bearing and cleaned up the area. The old pilot bearing was flush with the edge of the crankshaft, and there was no felt ring or remnants of one to be found. I’m wondering if I should install a new felt ring after the new pilot bearing is in place, but not sure there will be any place for it. Thoughts?
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If all else fails, stop using all else
1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50336
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: Stick shifter won't go into any gear! Transmission dead? |
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| beetleman217 wrote: |
| So I was able to finally pull out the damn pilot bearing and cleaned up the area. The old pilot bearing was flush with the edge of the crankshaft, and there was no felt ring or remnants of one to be found. I’m wondering if I should install a new felt ring after the new pilot bearing is in place, but not sure there will be any place for it. Thoughts? |
The felt ring goes into the flywheel, there is also a retainer that holds the felt in place. As an alternative to the stock bearing, you can use a diesel style bearing with incorporates a rubber lip seal that replaces the felt and retainer. This requires buying a stepped bit to clearance the engine side of the flywheel to accept the slightly longer diesel style bearing.
Last edited by Wildthings on Fri May 26, 2023 10:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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beetleman217
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2011
Posts: 515
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Stick shifter won't go into any gear! Transmission dead? |
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The felt ring should go in last, after the pilot bearing, correct? Well my pilot bearing "fills" the recess completely with no room for the felt to follow, let alone a retainer. Once I put the flywheel back on I could probably shove the felt ring in there but it will sit in the flywheel, cause like I said the bearing is flush with the crankshaft.
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If all else fails, stop using all else
1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50336
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Stick shifter won't go into any gear! Transmission dead? |
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| beetleman217 wrote: |
| The felt ring should go in last, after the pilot bearing, correct? Well my pilot bearing "fills" the recess completely with no room for the felt to follow, let alone a retainer. Once I put the flywheel back on I could probably shove the felt ring in there but it will sit in the flywheel, cause like I said the bearing is flush with the crankshaft. |
Sorry I should have said "The felt ring goes into the flywheel" |
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beetleman217
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2011
Posts: 515
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Stick shifter won't go into any gear! Transmission dead? |
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Placing the felt ring inside the flywheel decreases the diameter of the hole enough that the plastic centering tool cannot go in. Assuming the trans shaft is the same diameter as the plastic tool, I’m afraid it will take the felt with it into the pilot bearing. Should I just omit the felt?
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If all else fails, stop using all else
1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle |
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dodger tom
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2013
Posts: 1264
Location: Central Coast, CA, but we're all still Ukrainian
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Stick shifter won't go into any gear! Transmission dead? |
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| beetleman217 wrote: |
| Placing the felt ring inside the flywheel decreases the diameter of the hole enough that the plastic centering tool cannot go in. Assuming the trans shaft is the same diameter as the plastic tool, I’m afraid it will take the felt with it into the pilot bearing. Should I just omit the felt |
spray some silicon lube on the centering tool, and use it to slowly spread the felt ring?
i’m avoiding any obvious simile. insert smiley face here.
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1978 Champaign Edition Westfalia
Would never find the time to keep up another classic air-cooled. |
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beetleman217
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2011
Posts: 515
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Stick shifter won't go into any gear! Transmission dead? |
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The felt ring is way too big, there is no way I can shrink it down to the right size. I thought of cutting it but am afraid that may cause it to disintegrate under load.
I’m not sure installing a felt ring is worth the risk of it being pushed into the pilot bearing, jamming it up and causing chaos. There was no felt there before, which is an indication that maybe there shouldn’t be one on my particular flywheel.
_________________
If all else fails, stop using all else
1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle
Last edited by beetleman217 on Mon May 29, 2023 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50336
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Stick shifter won't go into any gear! Transmission dead? |
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| beetleman217 wrote: |
The felt ring is way too big, there is no way I can shrink it down to the right size. I thought of cutting it but am afraid that may cause it to disintegrate under load.
I’m not sure installing a felt ring is worth the risk of it being pushed into the pilot bearing, jamming it up and causing chaos. There was no felt there before, which is an indication that maybe there shouldn’t be one on my particular flywheel. I’m a nervous wreck about this as it’s a critical decision that cannot be corrected without dropping the engine, so please guys tell me what you think. |
I mentioned above that you could use a diesel pilot bearing. All it takes is a step bit and a drill motor to turn it and a few seconds of your time to do the drilling. This is a common bearing in VW and Audi products, both diesel and gas. |
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beetleman217
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2011
Posts: 515
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: Stick shifter won't go into any gear! Transmission dead? |
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Yes thanks, I’m at a point where I need to put the engine back very soon and the diesel bearing is not an option at this point.
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If all else fails, stop using all else
1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle |
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beetleman217
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2011
Posts: 515
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Stick shifter won't go into any gear! Transmission dead? |
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Side note, does anyone know what this bracket is for? Should it connect to something at its bottom? There’s a broken strap on it thats been put on there in the past for some reason.
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If all else fails, stop using all else
1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle |
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beetleman217
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2011
Posts: 515
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Stick shifter won't go into any gear! Transmission dead? |
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Engine is back in the bus, fired right up in the first try. Shifts like a dream; the test drive was flawless. Thank you for all who helped answer my questions in this thread.
Some notes if y'all are curious:
* Removing the old pilot bearing required tremendous force. A specialty puller connected to a slide hammer tool took it out with ease but those were not easy to source.
* I decided not to use the felt ring as there wasn't room for it.
* While the engine was out, I replaced the fuel sender, the TO bearing, all fuel lines, adjusted valves and points, checked crank end play and more...
* The Bentley book is invaluable and was with me there the entire time 
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If all else fails, stop using all else
1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle |
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