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OldSchoolVW's Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020 Posts: 701 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 3:23 pm Post subject: Ignition Coil Wire Inline Fuse '69 Bug - Wire ID Assist (Photos) |
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I'd like to add an inline fuse to this wire ... once I can correctly identify it. After reviewing other discussions on this topic, I understand the preferred location is next to the fuse block in the trunk and that the fuse should be 16 or 20 amps (as per ashman40 and Cusser). I've provided photos to show my situation and diagrams from the owner's manual and Bentley manual for reference if it helps with this discussion.
The wiring and connections appear to be original except for the white lamp cord (upper left in photos) that a PO used as speaker wire.
An unrelated question ...
I'm sure the resistive conductors in my rear window defroster became useless decades ago, which is fine since I don't have much need for it here in Southern California. If I add an inline fuse or move the spade connector to the output side of the fuse block, can I repurpose the switch to operate fog lights?
Overall photo of the fuse block:
I believe I have labeled these wires correctly. There are 2 black wires attached to the spade connector indicated with the red arrow. Assuming one of these is the correct wire ... how do I identify which should have the inline fuse added to it? If neither is correct, any guidance to help me locate it the proper wire for an inline fuse to protect the coil wire would be appreciated.
Here are the diagrams from the owners manual and Bentley manual for reference if needed:
_________________ Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31380 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition Coil Wire Inline Fuse '69 Bug - Wire ID Assist (Photos) |
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Attach the in-line fuse between the fuse box male terminal and the female connector of the black wire that runs rearward to the ignition coil. I use either an 8-amp fuse or a 10-amp fuse, and I've never had the fuse blow out on my two VWs (both have an inline fuse that I added); yes, I do carry a couple spare fuses in each VW. On my 2nd VW, I may have used a newer-type spade-type in-line fuse, can't remember...
In-line fuse for coil positive wire #15. The female connector end plugs into the non-fused side of the fuse box (disconnected for this photo), where the coil wire originally was; the male terminal at the other end plugs into the female terminal on the original wire to the coil. I use a 10 amp fuse, and if you don't have insulated terminals, cover with electrical tape. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition Coil Wire Inline Fuse '69 Bug - Wire ID Assist (Photos) |
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Wired from the factory, the black 15 wire coming in to the fuse box from the ignition switch would have come in to the UNFUSED side of fuse #2. This wire would have another thinner solid black wire joined to it at that terminal that carried ignition switched power up to the warning lights in the speedometer.
From that unfused side of fuse #2, power branches over to fuse #1 on the same side via a terminal bridging strap. (You can see that strap between the two fuses in your photo.) Then the black wire that went out through the main harness to the ignition coil would have been the only wire coming off that same unfused side of fuse #1.
However your fuse box appears to have the dual-wire connector (coming in from the ignition switch & splicing off to the speedometer) on the unfused side of fuse #1, and the single black wire (going out to the coil) coming off the unfused side of fuse #2.
This absolutely DOES NOT MATTER at all, in fact some guy in the VW factory ready for his coffee break may have done that. At any rate, the wire you are looking to connect the inline fuse to will be the SINGLE black wire attached to either the unfused side of fuse #1 or the unfused side of fuse #2 (again this appears to be the one attached to fuse #2 in your photo.)
As for the question regarding using the rear defrost toggle switch to power fog lights, the answer is absolutely.
Again, if wired as from the factory, there should be two solid black wires coming off the FUSED side of fuse #1. One of these wires goes down to your emergency flasher switch, the other is the lead to your rear defrost toggle switch. This is a simple circuit, when the switch is in the off position the current out to the rear defrost relay box (under the rear seat) is broken. When the switch is toggled on, it closes the circuit and sends ignition-switched power through to the rear defrost warning bulb in your speedometer, and from there another black wire branches off and carries power through the main harness back to the rear defrost relay. The relay is then energized and closes a path between straight battery power (the red wire with the inline fuse on it connected to the relay) and the wire coming off the relay going to the rear window defrost grid. This way a large amount of current doesn't have to go through the fuse box.
To wire up your fog lights through the defrost toggle switch, all you would have to do is cut the black wire coming off the speedometer warning light that goes into the main harness back to the relay box (easier to just cut it since the wire coming in to the warning light from the toggle switch is tied into the same connector.) Leave a bit of lead on the wire you cut and attach the power lead going to the fog lights. Then your rear defrost toggle switch will control the fog lights, and your speedometer warning light will now act as the fog light warning light.
(OORRRRRRR, you can just do what I did many moons ago, and wire the fog lights straight off the parking/ tail light fuses (#s 7 & 8 ) so that any time you pull the headlight switch on the fog lights are on.)
One more thing regarding the fog lights- if they pull a considerable amount of amperage, you will probably blow the 8 amp fuse in the fuse box, if this happens then you will need to repurpose your rear defrost relay to act as a relay for the fog lights. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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bnam Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2006 Posts: 2936 Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition Coil Wire Inline Fuse '69 Bug - Wire ID Assist (Photos) |
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I don’t think the tiny defeat switch will handle the fog light amperage well. Install a relay in front and use the switch to trigger the relay. _________________ 1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL |
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OldSchoolVW's Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020 Posts: 701 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition Coil Wire Inline Fuse '69 Bug - Wire ID Assist (Photos) |
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sb001 wrote: |
However your fuse box appears to have the dual-wire connector (coming in from the ignition switch & splicing off to the speedometer) on the unfused side of fuse #1, and the single black wire (going out to the coil) coming off the unfused side of fuse #2.
This absolutely DOES NOT MATTER at all, in fact some guy in the VW factory ready for his coffee break may have done that. At any rate, the wire you are looking to connect the inline fuse to will be the SINGLE black wire attached to either the unfused side of fuse #1 or the unfused side of fuse #2 (again this appears to be the one attached to fuse #2 in your photo.) |
Thanks for the very clear explanation!
I guess being wired at the factory doesn't necessarily mean it will match the wiring diagrams. (I can hear countless PO's guilty of creative wiring now blaming the factory for their crimes! )
After another, much closer look I see what you mean about the black wire attached to the unfused side of #2. Yes, this should be the wire I am looking for, but to be sure, I will disconnect it from the fuse block and disconnect the wire connected at the coil, run a jumper to the front and check for continuity.
Here's how the wires are connected at the coil: (I guess it wouldn't hurt to replace the existing spade connectors in the engine compartment with new, insulated connectors ... as you can see, I already did this for some connectors that were coming loose.)
_________________ Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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OldSchoolVW's Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020 Posts: 701 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition Coil Wire Inline Fuse '69 Bug - Wire ID Assist (Photos) |
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sb001 wrote: |
One more thing regarding the fog lights- if they pull a considerable amount of amperage, you will probably blow the 8 amp fuse in the fuse box, if this happens then you will need to repurpose your rear defrost relay to act as a relay for the fog lights. |
I was actually thinking about going with low profile LED lights just along the bottom edge of the bumper, like these:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/vehicle-lights/aux...20w-2-pack
I see bnam is concerned that the defogger switch would not be able to handle regular fog light amperage, but these only draw 1.7A, so maybe they will work with the existing defogger switch under the dash without using a relay???
My thought is to use these as daytime running lights. _________________ Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
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OldSchoolVW's Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020 Posts: 701 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition Coil Wire Inline Fuse '69 Bug - Wire ID Assist (Photos) |
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Cusser wrote: |
Attach the in-line fuse between the fuse box male terminal and the female connector of the black wire that runs rearward to the ignition coil. I use either an 8-amp fuse or a 10-amp fuse, and I've never had the fuse blow out on my two VWs (both have an inline fuse that I added); yes, I do carry a couple spare fuses in each VW. On my 2nd VW, I may have used a newer-type spade-type in-line fuse, can't remember...
In-line fuse for coil positive wire #15. The female connector end plugs into the non-fused side of the fuse box (disconnected for this photo), where the coil wire originally was; the male terminal at the other end plugs into the female terminal on the original wire to the coil. I use a 10 amp fuse, and if you don't have insulated terminals, cover with electrical tape. |
Thanks for the photo and explanation. I saw the photo you posted in your 8/26/21 reply to 1974vw412's question about this topic, but the photo you posted today made it clearer to me. I was figuring on going with a 16A spade-type inline fuse. I'm thinking that fuse would fry before any damage was done to the wire or anything downstream, but not be as prone to blowing prematurely as an 8 or 10A. Thoughts? _________________ Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31380 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition Coil Wire Inline Fuse '69 Bug - Wire ID Assist (Photos) |
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OldSchoolVW's wrote: |
Thanks for the photo and explanation. I saw the photo you posted in your 8/26/21 reply to 1974vw412's question about this topic, but the photo you posted today made it clearer to me. I was figuring on going with a 16A spade-type inline fuse. I'm thinking that fuse would fry before any damage was done to the wire or anything downstream, but not be as prone to blowing prematurely as an 8 or 10A. Thoughts? |
16-amp fuse would be fine; should a short occur, pretty much ANY fuse would blow.
Back in 1978 coming home from work, driving a car-pooler, my wire to the coil burned out. I ran a coil of wire over the roof of the 1970 VW back to the coil (the channel held it in place) to get her and myself home. I don't know if the hot wire to the coil or carburetor simply slipped off or if it shorted out along its path. I did run a new wire.
And I make sure that female connectors on ALL my vehicles are tight, some seem to loosen up over time.... _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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RWK Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009 Posts: 1349 Location: S.W. MI
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:08 am Post subject: Re: Ignition Coil Wire Inline Fuse '69 Bug - Wire ID Assist (Photos) |
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In an emergency the license plate light wire can be used to power the coil, just have to turn lights on to run car.
I believe you can move the coil wire to the fused side of the fuse box with a doubling male spade thing. _________________ 73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530 |
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OldSchoolVW's Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020 Posts: 701 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition Coil Wire Inline Fuse '69 Bug - Wire ID Assist (Photos) |
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Cusser wrote: |
16-amp fuse would be fine; should a short occur, pretty much ANY fuse would blow.
Back in 1978 coming home from work, driving a car-pooler, my wire to the coil burned out. I ran a coil of wire over the roof of the 1970 VW back to the coil (the channel held it in place) to get her and myself home. I don't know if the hot wire to the coil or carburetor simply slipped off or if it shorted out along its path. I did run a new wire.
And I make sure that female connectors on ALL my vehicles are tight, some seem to loosen up over time.... |
So it looks I will be adding a small spool of 14 gauge wire to my tool kit ... just never know when you'll need to run a bypass.
Working on upgrading to insulated connectors today. Voltage regulator is under the back seat so a less hostile environment than the engine compartment, but I'm still inclined to clean it up a bit. Yes, I've already disconnected the battery positive ... wouldn't want to accidentally cause the factory installed smoke to escape.
_________________ Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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OldSchoolVW's Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020 Posts: 701 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition Coil Wire Inline Fuse '69 Bug - Wire ID Assist (Photos) |
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RWK wrote: |
I believe you can move the coil wire to the fused side of the fuse box with a doubling male spade thing. |
That would be a nice quick solution if it worked ... however ...
ashman40 wrote: |
A common upgrade is to add an inline fuse at the fuse box end of the circuit. Go with a 15A or 20A and you should be fine.
Do not think you can just move the wire to the OUTPUT side of the fuse it is on. It will overload the fuse and it will blow in short order. Increasing the fuse to a 16A fuse also doesn't work as the fuse is sized to protect the wires downstream if it. The black wires connected to the 8A fuse will start to melt before they blow a 16A fuse. |
The rest of the discussion ashman40's comment came from can be found at:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758196&highlight=coil+wire+fuse _________________ Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
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'69 Beetle Sunroof
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15987 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 12:21 am Post subject: Re: Ignition Coil Wire Inline Fuse '69 Bug - Wire ID Assist (Photos) |
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OldSchoolVW's wrote: |
After another, much closer look I see what you mean about the black wire attached to the unfused side of #2. Yes, this should be the wire I am looking for, but to be sure, I will disconnect it from the fuse block and disconnect the wire connected at the coil, run a jumper to the front and check for continuity. |
You often don't need to run a long wire to the front to confirm it is the same wire/circuit...
Disconnect both ends of the wire you are working on. Make sure the ends of the wire are not touching anything. Test both ends of the wire with a test lamp of VM to confirm there is no voltage on the wire.
Switch your meter to read resistance (ohms) and test each end for resistance to ground. Since the wire is disconnected at both ends you should read infinite resistance.
Touch one end of the wire to ground. Test the other end to confirm you now have reading of zero resistance to ground. If the reading is zero you know you are working with the same wire you just grounded.
In cases where you cannot completely disconnect the wire because there are multiple paths... you may get a non-infinite reading initially and then a zero resistance after grounding one end, this still confirms you are working on the same wire. _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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OldSchoolVW's Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020 Posts: 701 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition Coil Wire Inline Fuse '69 Bug - Wire ID Assist (Photos) |
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ashman40 wrote: |
OldSchoolVW's wrote: |
After another, much closer look I see what you mean about the black wire attached to the unfused side of #2. Yes, this should be the wire I am looking for, but to be sure, I will disconnect it from the fuse block and disconnect the wire connected at the coil, run a jumper to the front and check for continuity. |
You often don't need to run a long wire to the front to confirm it is the same wire/circuit...
Disconnect both ends of the wire you are working on. Make sure the ends of the wire are not touching anything. Test both ends of the wire with a test lamp of VM to confirm there is no voltage on the wire.
Switch your meter to read resistance (ohms) and test each end for resistance to ground. Since the wire is disconnected at both ends you should read infinite resistance.
Touch one end of the wire to ground. Test the other end to confirm you now have reading of zero resistance to ground. If the reading is zero you know you are working with the same wire you just grounded.
In cases where you cannot completely disconnect the wire because there are multiple paths... you may get a non-infinite reading initially and then a zero resistance after grounding one end, this still confirms you are working on the same wire. |
Thank you Ashman for another great tip! Will be adding to my electrical "how-to" notes.
Fuse is in. Decided to go with a 15A ATC. On to cleaning up and replacing connectors where needed ...
_________________ Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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