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Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires!
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dubbified
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

Alot goes into the compounds for winter tires and to keep the pliable to conform to the road and provide traction.

To take those into the summer would bake the active ingredients that keep them pliant. I'd wager that's going to lessen the life.

I'm have hope for the Hakkaplittas.. this is the new CR4's model redesign that just came out.. I'd imagine those tires are going to be very new.

I do like they do look a little more aggressive than the WRC3's which might be good on trails. I cant wait to pull my new nifty vacuum switch on the dash.. a 2wd LSD with a locker isnt something I've had before.. Cool

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sucky pic..

Homepage for these, https://www.nokiantyres.com/winter-tires/nokian-tyres-hakkapeliitta-cr4/
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Nitramrebrab72
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:47 am    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

There is quite a bit of browning of the rubber. Rubber turns brown over time in direct sunlight as it breaks down ,especially in hot climates where the ambient temperature won't have a cooling effect and drys and contracts the rubber. The thicker the rubber the more it contracts and the easier it is to crack. On a vehicle the thick running edge is mainly in the shade thanks to the wheel archs and the thin side walls are far less affected due to their reduced thickness. The other thing is tyres not fitted to a wheel can dry out from the inside also. Not so fitted to a wheel as the air in the wheel can only absorb a minimum amount rubber vapours especially if they were fitted on a rainy day . Some tyre manufacturers state the maximum non fitted time and some are less then 12months. So if they were stored in a hot dry direct sunlight this can happen. Humid air not so bad. They are winter tyres so the rubber composition makes things worse, storage in a shop that does a lot of welding will kill them also , as rubber hates even minute amounts of exposure to concentrations of ozone gas so anything that makes a lot of sparks industrial size electric motors etc.
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dubbified
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

Nitramrebrab72 wrote:
There is quite a bit of browning of the rubber. Rubber turns brown over time in direct sunlight as it breaks down ,especially in hot climates where the ambient temperature won't have a cooling effect and drys and contracts the rubber. The thicker the rubber the more it contracts and the easier it is to crack. On a vehicle the thick running edge is mainly in the shade thanks to the wheel archs and the thin side walls are far less affected due to their reduced thickness. The other thing is tyres not fitted to a wheel can dry out from the inside also. Not so fitted to a wheel as the air in the wheel can only absorb a minimum amount rubber vapours especially if they were fitted on a rainy day . Some tyre manufacturers state the maximum non fitted time and some are less then 12months. So if they were stored in a hot dry direct sunlight this can happen. Humid air not so bad. They are winter tyres so the rubber composition makes things worse, storage in a shop that does a lot of welding will kill them also , as rubber hates even minute amounts of exposure to concentrations of ozone gas so anything that makes a lot of sparks industrial size electric motors etc.


Good points on what you said. Especially the unmounted shelf life. I think I'm clearly going to tell a shop I want to see the date code FIRST! I never thought about it. That's likely what was going on with teh Audi tires. They were not as bad.. but seeing this twice makes me wonder.

Since I have time on Capping retreds.. I do do know what that browning is about you refer to as BAD.

It is not bad, actually far from!

I sanity checked many responses of a bing search, why do tires turn brown,

The answer:
Tires turn brown because manufacturers use an additive in the rubber called antiozonant.

The process of this coming back is called "Blooming".

By design, antiozonant works while driving, also protecting against dry-rot and tire-cracking caused by ozone, sunlight, acid rain, road grime.

Several sites say Hot weather strips this out, dries it out and brown is the result.

So, for people who run WINTER tires in the heat of SUMMER.. seal the deal on their tires. Summer tires are formulated differently.

This van's tires will be running year round. In the past people had summer tires, and winter tire sets! I'm too lazy, and likely too cheap.

For those who like to run winters year round.. I'd wager if you added more care (adding protectant to the full tire/tred) to keep the rubber from leaking out the VOcs built into the tire to keep them soft in cold climates.. then you;d be doing yourself a solid and likely not see cracking, microcracks in the outer skin, which isnt likely extending into the interior banding/plies which are tough as balls. Recap a tire, and you'll see what I mean.

The pictures I started the thread with of big cracks were under a tree, not exposed to direct light, and I never cleaned them once, maybe they got the hose a few times. The van was on jacks, they never saw the weight of the van, once.

I found a site has a really good response on blooming.

It goes into routine care, and for me, does not go far enough into tire care though..

https://autofella.com/how-to-clean-car-tires/


I am formally trained by two high end detail shops.. and I can tell you it almost takes 2 hours for me to full on clean those wheels and tires OFF the car. 3 if I'm doing my arches and rotors and suspension.. and A ARMS. Good time for a light underbody clean/inspect.

The process I use to deep clean is I use notouch first, soak the tire rinse the tire, lightly coat with westleys bleche white, heavily brush them and the tred (dont be lazy) and then rinse, soap them, and then brush again, to defeat the acids **some shops have a PH balancing spray for this purpose alone! then I rinse let them fully dry. If you are a hot tub owner, this is already in your chemical bucket.. Ph UP and PH Down are always added to hot tubs, ad about $5 a bottle.. I used my PH down and made a liquid spray for my wheels (it works)

I'm not even talking about RIM cleaning here. but I do that too, and the rim looks as new as it can. I also strip the waxes off, and REWAX my Rim taking care not to get it on the rubber. The wheel has to be dry.

With the rubber full on dry, tires full on dry, I DYE my outer sidewalls with GRIOTS bumper and trim conditioner *its called conditioner for a reason. If you've used it you will notice it Seeps into the rubber/vinyl and is not really a coating that stays only on the surface.. it can if you bake/heatgun it on to an old nasty platic part you dont want to paint.. but it makes tires look super black, and next level.

For my tires when I strip them.. I use a heavy siliconized tire GEL which will soak in, and form the layers that I removed which were bestowed by the factory..

That tire looks so Fng good.. some freaks followed me once and said your tires are so boss looking.

Wonder why?

No, I wont do it for you. My wrists hurt just thinking about it.

I do love a cold beer.. but that does not seem to help me any with this process, I went to 1 gram joints and good music.

and yes I also put rubber care on my CV booties when Im deep cleaning.. removing any grit from the boot grooves which grinds the rubber when the axle is rotating.

A picture of my Audi with the prep I do..

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


No this car did not just get detailed and that picture is December 25th middle of winter! Those wheels are juiced with the stuff I'm talking about, all tred, bead to bead. The tires were already 9 months old at that point?

I hate being thorough sometimes.. but you can see your reflection in the rims alone.

When a tire has nothing on it, and is properly protected, the water rolls off them, the grit/grime does not stick to them and ladies panties fly right off... Smile hehe.
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VicVan
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

Looks like this is the replacement for the WRC3s:

https://www.nokiantyres.com/all-season-tires/nokian-tyres-seasonproof-c/

205/65 R 16 C 107/105T
215/60 R 16 C 103/101T
215/65 R 16 C 109/107T

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

pnwkayaker wrote:
Wildthings wrote:

Just changed out the 23 year old tires on my pickup today, light checking along the bead, but no serious cranking anywhere. I had had one break a belt last year so well knew I needed to get the others off even if they looked good.


My understanding is that installed tires older than 10 years should be replaced (though it might also be dependent on the number of miles, correct me if I’m wrong), never heard of a tire installed 23 years ago still being in use.


I've rid on 30 year old plus tires.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:39 am    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

Paul Walker rode on 9 year old tires...results vary Exclamation
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

Tires can be safe at 30 years and unsafe at 5. Time is not the only factor
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:12 am    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

RoryGirl wrote:
Paul Walker rode on 9 year old tires...results vary Exclamation


If the car sat for 9 years the tires were probably badly flat spotted, so the tires likely bounced around like crazy at 90 MPH.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

VicVan wrote:
Looks like this is the replacement for the WRC3s:

https://www.nokiantyres.com/all-season-tires/nokian-tyres-seasonproof-c/

205/65 R 16 C 107/105T
215/60 R 16 C 103/101T
215/65 R 16 C 109/107T

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Aww heck. Those are very nice.. and I like the year round concept.. vs winter running year round.. I know a winter compound is softer.

Ahh heck! I called the shop and they're sending a set of 5 Weatherproof Cs are Steel belted.

To seal the deal Hakkas are NOT steel belted, and when bing searching "Are steel belted tires better" yes is given, due to high speed stability. I like that. I also like the tire is going to be a little stiffer and a year round compound.

[/url]https://www.nokiantyres.com/summer-tires/nokian-tyres-seasonproof-c/[url][/url]

Thanks VICVAN!

I'm glad to hear a suggestion that changed my mind!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

RoryGirl wrote:
Paul Walker rode on 9 year old tires...results vary Exclamation


This was a very sobering article. Makes me think of all the vans that are lightly used, sitting outside and have old tires. I'm sure that we have all driven old tires and didn't crash but what happens in a sudden avoidence manouver or unexpectedly tight switchback?

Thanks for finding and sharing this.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

Thanks MTnHome!

Inner tubes..for floating on the river were never something we messed around with.. new.. every year.

Not to dismiss your wheelbarrow, and the tube.. but thats also what I've had issues with.

I am so glad to pickup a used Jackson construction wheelbarrow with a solid tire.

I can now LOAD that sucker way up and not think twice. I've had two wheels blow out.. cracked rubber.

i

Anyhow Again, Thanks VicVan, its a testament to why we share data here, your post inspired me, and caused me to change my order for those replacement tires at Discount.

They were happy to oblige, too! I can say this about Discount.

They didnt make either of the sets of tires I had issues with..

and when I brought these to their attention, there is ZERO issue with replacement.

That, to me, is the reason I will go back. Accountability = TRUST
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2023 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

These hakkaplitta CR-4s came in, and are mounted..

next is to finish the auto to manual swap, and get the axles on.. finish the systems conenctions for th FAS engine 15 degree to 50 degree mod and bleed all systems.. do a full inspection.. I'm a week or two away from being done.

I am trying to get Nokian to bring the Seasonproof C's to the US! they are a steel belted 107+ and have good year round compound, often used on the delivery trucks overseas.

Till then, the CR-4 will have to do. They look nice on black powdered benzo wheels. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/05/business/economy/nokian-tyres-finland-romania.html
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

That link is behind a paywall.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

Van den Broke wrote:
That link is behind a paywall.


Nokian produced about 80% of their passenger car tires in Russia. They have sold the plant there and are rushing to build a new plant in Oradea Romania. The Russian production "had high returns, but also had high risks". They would like to diversify production across various locations.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

here's a non paywalled link

Nokia article
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

Van den Broke wrote:
That link is behind a paywall.


Interesting it wasn’t for me. Try opening in a different browser or try opening in private mode on one of your browsers.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

Thanks to Steve for sending me the open link.
A good story, it was neat to see the pictures of the factory in Finland.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

csebern wrote:
Van den Broke wrote:
That link is behind a paywall.


Interesting it wasn’t for me. Try opening in a different browser or try opening in private mode on one of your browsers.


NYT will block users who've exceeded the free limit of articles so the experience varies.

Here's the Nokian press release from earlier this year on the transition out of Russia:
https://www.nokiantyres.com/company/about-us/produ...0the%20EU.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 3:41 am    Post subject: Re: Zero mile Nokian WRC3 tires did this?.... check your tires! Reply with quote

I have lost several Nokian tires due to cracking, belts breaking and entire tread coming off.

This was the latest one to go a year ago this July. I could feel a strange vibration in the ass end but never suspected the tires as they were in great shape
and not old. Had a blow out when the steel belts made their appearance driving up hill around a curve on a very narrow highway, filled with tractor trailers.
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