| Author |
Message |
Brian_e 
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 4206
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
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 Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| So which way is correct? |
Hey guys,
Brian from Type E here. Over the last few years I have had 4 different seals to use, mostly because of supply issues during covid. Some of the seals were a reversed lip style for a while. Those would be the ones in the install instructions, and in Bill's picture there. The last batch of seals I got are the standard style. I order these seals 100's at a time. Both styles work just fine, as long as they are installed with the rubber seal taper facing out, like mentioned in the instructions.
I messaged Early about his seals being in backwards, and I sent him a new pair of seals the other day so he can flip them around. I will update the pics in the install instructions.
The most recent batch of seals are the standard looking seal most guys are used to.
I would like to quick thank the over 300 people who have bough this, and the Baywindow kit. I never really though I would sell this many. I have them down pretty good now, and most kits go out the day after the order is placed. They go USPS flat rate, and the shipping for the kit is always free.
Brian
_________________
So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok
Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com
Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts |
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4795
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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Whew! After reading the recent posts about the inner-most grease seal placement, for a second there I thought I might have put mine in wrong. And I had studied those instructions and photos over and over and believed that I had it right. So I did okay Brian? Feel free to use any of my photos of your kit and my install if needed.
I love your well-thought out 14" wheel kit and look forward to when we can get your upcoming kit for our 15" wheeled Buses (I have a '59 D.C. and a '59 DD Panel waiting...)
Bill
_________________
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Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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Brian_e
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 4206
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| BulliBill wrote: |
Whew! After reading the recent posts about the inner-most grease seal placement, for a second there I thought I might have put mine in wrong. And I had studied those instructions and photos over and over and believed that I had it right. So I did okay Brian? Feel free to use any of my photos of your kit and my install if needed.
I love your well-thought out 14" wheel kit and look forward to when we can get your upcoming kit for our 15" wheeled Buses (I have a '59 D.C. and a '59 DD Panel waiting...)
Bill |
Yes Bill, you are good to go. The seals will still work fine even in backwards, but they are a little more difficult to get onto the seal surface if the taper is facing the wrong way.
Small update on the early spindle pre-'64 kit......
I have a working prototype done and in my hands. It will use the same caliper, wheel adapter, and caliper bracket as the current kit, but a different rotor application, and the new kit requires new hubs to be made.
The new hubs are the kicker. They are big and expensive. I have been sending the part model out for quoting to different machine shops, and I have also looked into having them cast in steel like most similar size and shaped brake and suspension parts. The cost of aluminum is high, and I would kind of prefer them to be steel. The casting will need to have patterns made, and core boxes built by the foundry. This will make the first 50 hubs $16,000 before the finish machine work. They will come down drastically in cost as I have more made, but that is a huge $$$ step for the first 50 parts.
So if anyone out there has a good hook up with a large size, dual spindle CNC lathe with live tooling, or a foundry, send me a message. 
Brian
_________________
So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok
Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com
Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts |
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grailoc
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: FRANCE and now QUEBEC city
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| Brian_e wrote: |
| BulliBill wrote: |
Whew! After reading the recent posts about the inner-most grease seal placement, for a second there I thought I might have put mine in wrong. And I had studied those instructions and photos over and over and believed that I had it right. So I did okay Brian? Feel free to use any of my photos of your kit and my install if needed.
I love your well-thought out 14" wheel kit and look forward to when we can get your upcoming kit for our 15" wheeled Buses (I have a '59 D.C. and a '59 DD Panel waiting...)
Bill |
Yes Bill, you are good to go. The seals will still work fine even in backwards, but they are a little more difficult to get onto the seal surface if the taper is facing the wrong way.
Small update on the early spindle pre-'64 kit......
I have a working prototype done and in my hands. It will use the same caliper, wheel adapter, and caliper bracket as the current kit, but a different rotor application, and the new kit requires new hubs to be made.
The new hubs are the kicker. They are big and expensive. I have been sending the part model out for quoting to different machine shops, and I have also looked into having them cast in steel like most similar size and shaped brake and suspension parts. The cost of aluminum is high, and I would kind of prefer them to be steel. The casting will need to have patterns made, and core boxes built by the foundry. This will make the first 50 hubs $16,000 before the finish machine work. They will come down drastically in cost as I have more made, but that is a huge $$$ step for the first 50 parts.
So if anyone out there has a good hook up with a large size, dual spindle CNC lathe with live tooling, or a foundry, send me a message.
Brian |
Interesting update!!
I was looking to buy the empi kit for my 60 bus, but now I am wondering if I should wait until your kit for early bus becomes true !!
_________________
My 59 low light ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=452128
My 56 beetle convertible: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7796259
My 60 SO23 westy: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=341539
My oldspeed 36hp autotechnik express build: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=670827
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AKdude
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2016
Posts: 49
Location: The Far North
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| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| turkis-deluxe wrote: |
| Braukuche wrote: |
| I had the shitty SACO kit on my ‘59 and after five years or so of dealing with warped rotors, rotors coming apart, pulsating pedal I junked it and bought the EMPI kit. I bought quality wheel bearings and used my CSP dual master and the bus brakes like a dream. |
I'm going to buy a few EMPI sets soon for my earlier buses since Type E is only later. Can you clarify the bearing concerns as far as what it comes with versus the quality bearings you bought? |
It comes with Chinese bearings which most stuff I read is no bueno. I bought German and Japanese ones instead at FLAPS. |
Do you recall the Empi kit number you wound up getting for your '59 bus? I got a '58, and would like to go with the Empi kit, but the period correct kit only comes with the single master cylinder, not the dual.
Wonder if a later Empi kit with the dual MC would fit the '58, too...?
Thanks, Tim |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11229
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| AKdude wrote: |
| Braukuche wrote: |
| turkis-deluxe wrote: |
| Braukuche wrote: |
| I had the shitty SACO kit on my ‘59 and after five years or so of dealing with warped rotors, rotors coming apart, pulsating pedal I junked it and bought the EMPI kit. I bought quality wheel bearings and used my CSP dual master and the bus brakes like a dream. |
I'm going to buy a few EMPI sets soon for my earlier buses since Type E is only later. Can you clarify the bearing concerns as far as what it comes with versus the quality bearings you bought? |
It comes with Chinese bearings which most stuff I read is no bueno. I bought German and Japanese ones instead at FLAPS. |
Do you recall the Empi kit number you wound up getting for your '59 bus? I got a '58, and would like to go with the Empi kit, but the period correct kit only comes with the single master cylinder, not the dual.
Wonder if a later Empi kit with the dual MC would fit the '58, too...?
Thanks, Tim |
I don’t recall the number. I didn’t use the single circuit. I bought the CSP conversion kit for dual and installed a 67 dual master. You can’t buy the 67 kit as it’s for 14 inch wheels.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1989 Westfalia |
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Yustrn
JHC Controla
Joined: August 01, 2000
Posts: 5492
Location: Ovaland, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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Does anyone know if the EMPI 55-63 kit work with stock 15's? I see some that say it doesn't work with 14's but nothing about 15's.
I see other kits that say works with any wheel except stock 14's and 15's, does anyone have a kit that they are using that will allow you to use stock 15's? or stock wide 5 356 wheels as a worst case scenario.
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srfndoc
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010
Posts: 3410
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| Yustrn wrote: |
Does anyone know if the EMPI 55-63 kit work with stock 15's? I see some that say it doesn't work with 14's but nothing about 15's.
I see other kits that say works with any wheel except stock 14's and 15's, does anyone have a kit that they are using that will allow you to use stock 15's? or stock wide 5 356 wheels as a worst case scenario. |
I have the Old Speed setup and 15" bus rims and it works great.
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jonny1309
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 686
Location: Oside
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| srfndoc wrote: |
| Yustrn wrote: |
Does anyone know if the EMPI 55-63 kit work with stock 15's? I see some that say it doesn't work with 14's but nothing about 15's.
I see other kits that say works with any wheel except stock 14's and 15's, does anyone have a kit that they are using that will allow you to use stock 15's? or stock wide 5 356 wheels as a worst case scenario. |
I have the Old Speed setup and 15" bus rims and it works great. |
Hey Eric. Yes, the empi 55-63 kit will work with 15” bus wheels. As will the Old Speed kit but it sounds like you’re looking for a kit for early spindles. I’ve installed both kits so hit me up if you have questions. |
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19889
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| Yustrn wrote: |
Does anyone know if the EMPI 55-63 kit work with stock 15's? I see some that say it doesn't work with 14's but nothing about 15's.
I see other kits that say works with any wheel except stock 14's and 15's, does anyone have a kit that they are using that will allow you to use stock 15's? or stock wide 5 356 wheels as a worst case scenario. |
I run the empi kit on my '62 SO34 with no issues. Stock 15's but i do use a DC master cylinder that i got from ISP.
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| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
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earlywesty
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2004
Posts: 2380
Location: In the woods, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| I see jeff gagnon and Air Kewled/Pete Skiba both introduced kits, with the latter offering a 55-63 kit. I need an early kit or two and cannot stand the Airkeweld brand (marketing, name and business practices/putting down of other suppliers) whatsoever so I wont buy from them and will wait a bit for Type E to see if Brian is able to put together an early kit. These offerings also help determine a price point as well. Hoping to put disc brakes on for this season so may end up with Empi if Type E isn't moving forward. |
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3192
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 6:01 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| earlywesty wrote: |
| Air Kewled/Pete Skiba (marketing, name and business practices/putting down of other suppliers) |
We appreciate your opinion and your comment. We make it a point in 22 years "not" to give our opinion on other suppliers. Is there an example of this?
FWIW - The Bus Kits we have built were introduced in 2009.
Try one kit on your bus. If you don't love it before 90 days, send it back for a full refund. - MNBP
_________________
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 4214
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| Quote: |
| Is there an example of this |
You have a current ad for early bus brakes trashing 2 of your competitors. Not Kewl |
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3192
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Is there an example of this |
You have a current ad for early bus brakes trashing 2 of your competitors. Not Kewl |
| Quote: |
Here are some competitors kits -
A) https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2663985 - $1100 Shipped - No Disc Master, Reservoir or adapter kit - Not even an option. He's not a company with product liability insurance so there is no warranty, use at your own risk. Only available in Wide 5, meaning. Single Piston Cast Iron Calipers - Rotors are from China and only available in Wide 5
B) https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1725154 - $1525 - No Disc Master, Hoses, Reservoir or adapter kit. Only available in Wide 5 and with the master kit, no hoses and shipping, you are at $1894.40. No product liability insurance so there is no warranty, use at your own risk...and you still need hoses.
C) https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2187983 - $1525 - No Disc Master, Hoses, Reservoir or adapter kit. Only available in Porsche 5x130mm and with the master kit, no hoses and shipping, you are at $1858.40. No product liability insurance so there is no warranty, use at your own risk...and you still need hoses.
D) CSP Disc Brakes - https://www2.cip1.com/c31-499-264-5205-14/ - $1799 - No Disc Master, Hoses, Reservoir or adapter kit. Only available in Wide 5. Master kit is $299.99, no hoses or brake light switch. I like CSP and recommend it to all that want to use factory bus wheels 14" and larger. But you are at $2100+/-
E) https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2662782 - $1575 - No Disc Master, Hoses, Reservoir or adapter kit - Not even an option. I like this gentleman but he's not a company with product liability insurance so there is no warranty, use at your own risk. Only available in Porsche Pattern, meaning no wide 5 and shipping is included. |
This is trashing my competitors or educating my potential customers?
_________________
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View our Industry Leading Products - https://www.airkewld.com/Products-s/2322.htm
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earlywesty
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2004
Posts: 2380
Location: In the woods, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| Airkewld wrote: |
| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Is there an example of this |
You have a current ad for early bus brakes trashing 2 of your competitors. Not Kewl |
| Quote: |
Here are some competitors kits -
A) https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2663985 - $1100 Shipped - No Disc Master, Reservoir or adapter kit - Not even an option. He's not a company with product liability insurance so there is no warranty, use at your own risk. Only available in Wide 5, meaning. Single Piston Cast Iron Calipers - Rotors are from China and only available in Wide 5
B) https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1725154 - $1525 - No Disc Master, Hoses, Reservoir or adapter kit. Only available in Wide 5 and with the master kit, no hoses and shipping, you are at $1894.40. No product liability insurance so there is no warranty, use at your own risk...and you still need hoses.
C) https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2187983 - $1525 - No Disc Master, Hoses, Reservoir or adapter kit. Only available in Porsche 5x130mm and with the master kit, no hoses and shipping, you are at $1858.40. No product liability insurance so there is no warranty, use at your own risk...and you still need hoses.
D) CSP Disc Brakes - https://www2.cip1.com/c31-499-264-5205-14/ - $1799 - No Disc Master, Hoses, Reservoir or adapter kit. Only available in Wide 5. Master kit is $299.99, no hoses or brake light switch. I like CSP and recommend it to all that want to use factory bus wheels 14" and larger. But you are at $2100+/-
E) https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2662782 - $1575 - No Disc Master, Hoses, Reservoir or adapter kit - Not even an option. I like this gentleman but he's not a company with product liability insurance so there is no warranty, use at your own risk. Only available in Porsche Pattern, meaning no wide 5 and shipping is included. |
This is trashing my competitors or educating my potential customers? |
Its trashing your competitors. I've shared the reason why you won't receive my business and your answers, which mimic your responses in your feedback, highlight and reinforce how I feel. I wish you best of luck on successful operation of your business using your current model. |
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3192
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| earlywesty wrote: |
| Its trashing your competitors. I've shared the reason why you won't receive my business and your answers, which mimic your responses in your feedback, highlight and reinforce how I feel. I wish you best of luck on successful operation of your business using your current model. |
All good and roger that EW. I wish you great luck with your T2.
_________________
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Chuey
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2010
Posts: 898
Location: Oceanside, California
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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First, I don't know any of the mentioned parties or the two Samba members discussing this topic of "trashing their competition".
But, if an advertiser wants to advertise a comparison of their product to their competitors, the way I've seen it done that sounds *nothing like* bashing the competition is a chart that lists the attributes of their product and has check marks or similar to indicate if the competition has the same or equal desirable characteristics.
I can see how the ad being discussed could be perceived as negative. When I see ads done in the chart motif that I described, I have taken that as pretty neutral as opposed to talking smack about their competitors.
Chuey |
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3192
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| Chuey wrote: |
First, I don't know any of the mentioned parties or the two Samba members discussing this topic of "trashing their competition".
But, if an advertiser wants to advertise a comparison of their product to their competitors, the way I've seen it done that sounds *nothing like* bashing the competition is a chart that lists the attributes of their product and has check marks or similar to indicate if the competition has the same or equal desirable characteristics.
I can see how the ad being discussed could be perceived as negative. When I see ads done in the chart motif that I described, I have taken that as pretty neutral as opposed to talking smack about their competitors.
Chuey |
Perfectly said Chuey.
_________________
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professor229
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2009
Posts: 40
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:52 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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So I am ready to wave a white flag on this problem with the 1971 brakes and would appreciate a few quick answers....
First, the front brakes were upgraded to disc brakes by the previous owner and have been relatively problem free. The 1971 Beetle was a donor car for a kit car but the mechanical end of this has not changed much. The brakes were upgraded and a low voltage starting bypass was installed by me last year. I have a couple questions about the brakes though....
Last year, when I step on the brakes fairly hard, you would hear a sound which was much like what you would hear if a metal brake line was loose and making contact with something.... more less a click. Now, if it was a metal brake line I wanted to fasten it so it would not move when hitting the brake. The sound comes from the driver's side and in the back.... I assume I still have a brake drum system back there but need to check.... The front brakes are disc.
So yesterday I traced the lines from each wheel to the master cylinder. I finally found the path of the rear brake line inside the fiberglass body of the car... there was no movement in it anywhere nor after it exited the body of the car and ran to the plate of the wheels.... there was no loose fitting. So there was nothing to fix and when you think about it, the clicking sound must then be coming from the driver's side rear brake system.... and I will pull that as soon as the weather gets nicer again....
Does anyone have any ideas about what I should look for that would make a clicking sound on that brake assembly??? All idea appreciated...
And just one more thing.... Does a VW master cylinder have a dual chamber so if one brake line failes, you can still get the vehicle stopped or are you at the mercy of the emergency brake only?
thanks for any advice... send soem warmer weather please.... |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20967
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| professor229 wrote: |
So I am ready to wave a white flag on this problem with the 1971 brakes and would appreciate a few quick answers....
First, the front brakes were upgraded to disc brakes by the previous owner and have been relatively problem free. The 1971 Beetle was a donor car for a kit car but the mechanical end of this has not changed much. The brakes were upgraded and a low voltage starting bypass was installed by me last year. I have a couple questions about the brakes though....
Last year, when I step on the brakes fairly hard, you would hear a sound which was much like what you would hear if a metal brake line was loose and making contact with something.... more less a click. Now, if it was a metal brake line I wanted to fasten it so it would not move when hitting the brake. The sound comes from the driver's side and in the back.... I assume I still have a brake drum system back there but need to check.... The front brakes are disc.
So yesterday I traced the lines from each wheel to the master cylinder. I finally found the path of the rear brake line inside the fiberglass body of the car... there was no movement in it anywhere nor after it exited the body of the car and ran to the plate of the wheels.... there was no loose fitting. So there was nothing to fix and when you think about it, the clicking sound must then be coming from the driver's side rear brake system.... and I will pull that as soon as the weather gets nicer again....
Does anyone have any ideas about what I should look for that would make a clicking sound on that brake assembly??? All idea appreciated...
And just one more thing.... Does a VW master cylinder have a dual chamber so if one brake line fails, you can still get the vehicle stopped or are you at the mercy of the emergency brake only?
thanks for any advice... send some warmer weather please.... |
So you are talking about a buggy, based on a 71 beetle chassis? Confused a little since this is the split window bus forum, but we can probably still help you.
Yes, there is likely something loose/broken, bent, maladjusted in the rear brake drum system. Take it apart and have a good look. Should be obvious.
Yes, a 71 should have a dual chamber master cylinder, unless it has been changed for some reason.
Not sure if the mods want to move this to another forum since it is late beetle stuff technically.
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