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Martin Southwell Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2010 Posts: 1060 Location: Bath, England
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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In which case, there should already be an International Criminal Arrest Warrant out the the above felons! Whilst I understand the sensitivity regarding the subject, especially in Germany, there needs to be a degree of proportionality. Trying to bury bad history will only make people more curious about the subject. |
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Blue Baron VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006 Posts: 26492 Location: Southeast USA
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2024 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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Photos from the Cornerstone ceremony.
Anticipation grows
60,000 people bused in
Masons in ceremonial white prepare the cornerstone while youth corps band looks on from above.
NSKK (National Socialist Motor Corp) member (left) stands guard in leather helmet.
Prepared remarks
Striking the cornerstone
Presentation of the V303 convertible as Porsche speaks to Werlin (left), and Porsche Junior (second from right) looks on
Porsche presents the V303 convertibe
Hitler seated in the V303 convertible as Ley, Werlin and Porsche look on
Exiting the ceremony, seated from left: Ley, Hitler, Porsche, Porsche Junior (driver)
_________________ We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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banana split Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2002 Posts: 1108 Location: Beautiful British Columbia Canada
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Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2024 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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Great series of historic photos. I wonder if any actual film / video exists of this event. The Nazi party sure knew how to make a spectacle of an event. _________________ My Beetles :
1951 Crotch Cooler 11G Split Ragtop
1953 Zwitter
1964 Chop Top |
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finster Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012 Posts: 9240 Location: not far from the madding crowd
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Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2024 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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brief footage at the start of this video of ah driven away from the ceremony
Link
_________________ "we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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Blue Baron VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006 Posts: 26492 Location: Southeast USA
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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:21 am Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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Dedication speech, May 26, 1938.
As the National Socialist Movement came to power in 1933, it seemed to me that this area was particularly well suited to open the campaign against unemployment: the problem of motorization!
Here the German people were the most in arears, not only in comparison to production figures in America, but also in comparison to those of other European countries. The production of automobiles in Germany had remained at a ludicrously low level: barely 46,000 cars a year! This did not correspond in the least to the motorization needs of the German people. Therefore it is only logical that in a time when 7 million unemployed weighed down our lives, there would need to be a radical and immediate solution.
The first sterp toward motorization was a divorce from the perception of the car as a luxury item. Of course this can be considered true in a country where there are no more than 200,000, 300,000 or 400,000 cars; however, the German people do not need 200,000 or 300,000 cars, but rather six or seven million! The critical point is to adjust the costs for buying and maintaining this means of transporation -- the most modern there is -- to the income level of the people.
At the time I was told this is impossible! My only reply to this is what is possible in other countries is also possible in Germany. I reject the word impossible, because it has always been the mark of people who are not daring enough to make and implement great decisions.
The automobile must become the means of transportation for the people! As this ambition could not be realized given the price range of automobiles to date, I resolved even prior to our government takeover, to use that precise moment when we came to power to push for production of a car at a price which would make it accessible to the broadest population. Only then would the automobile cease to be a distinction of class.
There was yet another reason why I looked to motorization. Given the limits imposed on the production of foodstuffs in a country with 140 persons per square kilometer, it would be catastrophic were the German people to invest all their earnings in foodstuffs. Therefore it is critical to provide the German people with an alternative to divert their buying power.
In former times, government economists would not bother themselves with such considerations; however, we must face the facts and solve the problems that arise from them. The people's car forms part of a series of measures aimed at channeling the buying power of the German people toward other products of equal value. Every year hundreds of thousands of marks will be invested in pursuit of this goal. These needs can be satisfied based on our work alone, using our own raw materials, our ores, our coal and so forth.
Few today realize the true significance of this project and its consequences. The people's car will not enter into competition with the cars produced by the present automobile industry, because a man who buys this car and not a Mercedes does not do so simply because he is an opponent of the Daimler factory, but because he cannot afford a Mercedes.
What compels the buyer to turn to inexpensive goods are simple and level-headed considerations. Whoever can afford the more expensive goods will buy them anyway! For the broad masses, however, this is not possible! It is for these citizens that this car has been designed. It is to meet their needs for transportation, and in this capacity to bring them joy.
Therefore I believe there is only one name that can be given to this car, a name I shall give to it on this very evening. It shall bear the name of the organization which serves to instill both joy and strength to the masses, The name shall be [KdF-Wagen] Strength Through Joy Car!
As we build this greatest of Germany's automobile factories, we shall also build an exemplary German worker settlement. It shall serve as a prototype for the future of social housing projects and city design. We wish to demonstate how National Socialism sees, approaches and resolves such problems.
At this point I wish to thank those men who deserve recognition for their efforts in planning and implementing this project, in particular to a man from the automobile industry who has labored to represent and implement my views and who has loyally stood by me in these past years: our longtime party comrade Jacob Werlin; and further let me thank those men who shall join forces with him in the practical implementation of this project -- our greatest idealist party comrade Robert Ley, the brilliant engineer Porsche, and finally Dr. Lafferenz.
Those are the men to whom we all owe, in large part, the realization of this enormous project! Hence I proceed to lay the cornerstone for this factory which, I am certain, shall become a symbol of the National Socialist people's community! _________________ We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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Hacksaw-BoB Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2009 Posts: 821 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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. . . . . .
_________________ Hacksaw BoB
http://www.VintageVolkswagenModels.com
Collector of Vintage VW Toys
BoB's Restor-Version Shop |
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djfordmanjack Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2009 Posts: 2286 Location: Graz, Austria, Europe
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Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2024 3:25 am Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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Whoa..... that is an interesting lot of historical pics and info for sure. The show was just up to come ! This delusional staged monumental event, makes it much easier to understand why people fell for it in large numbers and were willing to 'donate' or rather paying their little savings to a new car to come....
What is most shocking to me is this pic. It has content that I have not seen before in 40 years of VW and WWII interest. It is only logical that the gable cross is to be associated with building a factory for the people, but it's a little odd, seeing this is still the official logo of an old German and international bank to this day.
Money makes the world go around.... !
_________________ Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins !
52 Barndoor DLX Coachbuild project
55 Wolfsburg panel project, og paint Taubenblau L31
62 Dickholmer, custom color Seeblau L360
63 1500 Notch, og paint Rubin Rot L456
67 1500 Käfer, og paint Lotus weiß L282 w/red interior |
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Blue Baron VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006 Posts: 26492 Location: Southeast USA
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Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2024 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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A photo of the V303 No. 1 prototype, which was the first VW of the final design.
This one appears to differ from the others with an odd set of headlights. It is unclear whether
these were just a mockup because of time contraints, or were taken from some other car.
Have we had a conversation about them? _________________ We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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finster Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012 Posts: 9240 Location: not far from the madding crowd
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Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2024 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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djfordmanjack wrote: |
Whoa.....
What is most shocking to me is this pic. It has content that I have not seen before in 40 years of VW and WWII interest. It is only logical that the gable cross is to be associated with building a factory for the people, but it's a little odd, seeing this is still the official logo of an old German and international bank to this day.
Money makes the world go around.... ! |
have you read 'nazi billionaires - the dark history of germany's wealthiest dynasties' by david de jong? _________________ "we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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djfordmanjack Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2009 Posts: 2286 Location: Graz, Austria, Europe
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Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2024 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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^no, but I will investigate into that. Thank you ! Without getting too political on here, it IS rather obvious, that some people or organisations will benefit from bad things going on.
In this case, it is common knowledge that future Kdf want-to-be owners were ripped off their savings (stamps) by the ongoing war efforts. Instead of receiving their Kraft Durch Freude cars, the Kübel was sent out to all European battles (and beyond).
I seem to remember that it was only in the late 1950s(?), that a trial was held and Volkswagen AG had to pay them back. (part or in full I don't know). _________________ Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins !
52 Barndoor DLX Coachbuild project
55 Wolfsburg panel project, og paint Taubenblau L31
62 Dickholmer, custom color Seeblau L360
63 1500 Notch, og paint Rubin Rot L456
67 1500 Käfer, og paint Lotus weiß L282 w/red interior |
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Blue Baron VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006 Posts: 26492 Location: Southeast USA
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2024 1:02 am Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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The funds were placed in escro in a Berlin Bank, where they were confiscated by the Russians. The savers' class action court case bounced around in the German courts for years, with VW arguing that it was the defunct Third Reich responsible for the loss, which some courts agreed with, finding against the savers, while on appeal, other courts saw the name Volkswagenwerk used both during and after the war, making VW liable. Nordhoff prudently squirreled away funds in case the ruling went against VW, ultimately settling in 1961 for about a 30 percent discount on the cost of a new VW, or half that much in cash. The settlement was spurred on by the Volkswagenwerk's desire to become a publically owned company (going from a GMBH to an AG), as well as closure on a dark part of its history.
The bottom line is they really did want to build an enormous factory (using mostly USA-manufactured machines and heavy presses) to produce millions of cars to sell cheaply to Germans, as well as export to the rest of the world, and it wasn't just a big confidence scheme, or a trick to build an armaments plant as some would have us believe. The factory never ran at more then 15 percent capacity for the duration of the war! _________________ We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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wagen19 Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007 Posts: 200 Location: germany
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2024 1:53 am Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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Blue Baron wrote: |
The funds were placed in escro in a Berlin Bank, where they were confiscated by the Russians. The savers' class action court case bounced around in the German courts for years, with VW arguing that it was the defunct Third Reich responsible for the loss, which some courts agreed with, finding against the savers, while on appeal, other courts saw the name Volkswagenwerk used both during and after the war, making VW liable. Nordhoff prudently squirreled away funds in case the ruling went against VW, ultimately settling in 1961 for about a 30 percent discount on the cost of a new VW, or half that much in cash. The settlement was spurred on by the Volkswagenwerk's desire to become a publically owned company (going from a GMBH to an AG), as well as closure on a dark part of its history.
The bottom line is they really did want to build an enormous factory (using mostly USA-manufactured machines and heavy presses) to produce millions of cars to sell cheaply to Germans, as well as export to the rest of the world, and it wasn't just a big confidence scheme, or a trick to build an armaments plant as some would have us believe. The factory never ran at more then 15 percent capacity for the duration of the war! |
The long going "VW-Sparer-Prozess"
https://www.spiegel.de/geschichte/vom-kdf-wagen-zu...03308.html
https://www.sauerlandkurier.de/hochsauerlandkreis/brilon/hilfsverein-vw-sparer-5708207.html |
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djfordmanjack Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2009 Posts: 2286 Location: Graz, Austria, Europe
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2024 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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^
^
thank you for the additional info, and links !
I guess there were many reasons in the 1930s to produce a people's car, be it industrial, economical, social or political. As a matter of fact fascism probably was exactly all of that, brought together under one head organisation (at least to my understanding).
I have no doubt that the peoples'car was intended to be built in large numbers. Everything that Ferdinand Porsche ever laid hands on, was purpose built, and with the intention of achieving success. he also traveled to Dearborn several times in the 1930s to learn about Ford's mass production. _________________ Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins !
52 Barndoor DLX Coachbuild project
55 Wolfsburg panel project, og paint Taubenblau L31
62 Dickholmer, custom color Seeblau L360
63 1500 Notch, og paint Rubin Rot L456
67 1500 Käfer, og paint Lotus weiß L282 w/red interior |
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TornadoRed06 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2020 Posts: 209 Location: Porto - Portugal
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2024 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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Further along with what BlueBaron has written, I have read somewhere that the full amount of moneis handed over by the KDF-savers was fully intact in the German Bank/account in Berlin when Russians arrived and sacked & confiscated (among several other things). My understanding was that the monies where in the name of the KDF organization or any other directly related.
Volkswagenwerk in that process had 0 (Zero) access to the monies, they were just the executers of the machine building, that would obviously going to be paid against vehicles delivered related to build orders.
The sad true was that Volkswagenwerk, immidiatly before and during the war years, received sparingly KDF orders to build them... so no deliveries of goods without order placed!
Yep, Volkswagenwerk received loads of orders (and payment for goods delivered) for stoves, airplain fuselage parts, bomb shells and some complete bodies (or at the beginning) fully constructed bodies from Ambi-Budd (Berlin) to build them...
(And they have got loads of unskilled people, including sentenced criminals, as workforce to labour inside Volkswagenwerk premises during those times too, so not that bad that none Beetles had been made, thankfully I guess). |
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Who.Me? Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014 Posts: 2384 Location: UK (South)
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2024 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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Blue Baron wrote: |
Nordhoff prudently squirreled away funds in case the ruling went against VW, ultimately settling in 1961 for about a 30 percent discount on the cost of a new VW, |
I wonder if the sales invoices mentioned the credit/allowance toward the cost and if so, how it was phrased? Anyone seen one? _________________ Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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wagen19 Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007 Posts: 200 Location: germany
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 12:14 am Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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TornadoRed06 wrote: |
Further along with what BlueBaron has written, I have read somewhere that the full amount of moneis handed over by the KDF-savers was fully intact in the German Bank/account in Berlin when Russians arrived and sacked & confiscated (among several other things). My understanding was that the monies where in the name of the KDF organization or any other directly related.
Volkswagenwerk in that process had 0 (Zero) access to the monies, they were just the executers of the machine building, that would obviously going to be paid against vehicles delivered related to build orders.
The sad true was that Volkswagenwerk, immidiatly before and during the war years, received sparingly KDF orders to build them... so no deliveries of goods without order placed!
Yep, Volkswagenwerk received loads of orders (and payment for goods delivered) for stoves, airplain fuselage parts, bomb shells and some complete bodies (or at the beginning) fully constructed bodies from Ambi-Budd (Berlin) to build them...
(And they have got loads of unskilled people, including sentenced criminals, as workforce to labour inside Volkswagenwerk premises during those times too, so not that bad that none Beetles had been made, thankfully I guess). |
...where the money is...
According to Mommsen / Grieger at least one solid part of big money went with Anton Piech to Austria. It was and is easy continously to repeat, the bad Soviets, Russians took all the good stuff after WW2, but it´s not allways true.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Pi%C3%ABch |
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el_safari Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2005 Posts: 389 Location: Nouvelle Aquitaine,France
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 3:55 am Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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Thank you wagen19!
Very interesting... _________________ La terre n'est qu'un seul pays |
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Hacksaw-BoB Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2009 Posts: 821 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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Yes !! Very Interesting !! _________________ Hacksaw BoB
http://www.VintageVolkswagenModels.com
Collector of Vintage VW Toys
BoB's Restor-Version Shop |
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Blue Baron VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006 Posts: 26492 Location: Southeast USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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Via translator:
Piëch was also the commander of four Volkssturm companies, whose soldiers were mainly factory employees. On April 10, 1945, he ordered the unit to retreat towards the Elbe. He himself went with 10 million Reichsmarks under the pretext of relocating the company management via Neudek to Zell am See, where Ferdinand Porsche owned a property ("Schüttgut"). The money was to be used to relocate a part of the Volkswagen factory from Neudek to the Allgäu, but this was no longer possible, so the funds were used to finance Porsche KG.
I would assume these were government payments for armament contracts, with no direct connection to the KdF Savers. In effect, Piëch was fleecing the Nazis!
It's a shame Mommsen and Grieger has never been translated to English, as it appears to be a concise history. _________________ We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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Hacksaw-BoB Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2009 Posts: 821 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Cornerstone VW's? |
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Thanks for the translation !! _________________ Hacksaw BoB
http://www.VintageVolkswagenModels.com
Collector of Vintage VW Toys
BoB's Restor-Version Shop |
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