Stupid quesions VS changing paradigms, re-inventing the wheel

[modok]

wow, thanks guys, actually some profound stuff there, I feel much better.

Scope drift? LOL, hardly, haven't scratched the surface, and didn't even plan on getting to how a washing machine drain and an breather system and an exhaust system works. Primarily has to do with pressure and the size of the passage. Or maybe it doesn't, actually.
But it's hard imagine skipping that concept on the way to learning more advanced fluid dynamics.

The same way it's hard to imagine a professional engine builder not being aware of certain things which others consider widely known.

[Busstom]

[Zed999]

[modok]

[modok]

[chrisflstf]

If you think heavy motor oil or grease on new rings was bad, as a kid on my first couple of motors, I used to take pistons and cylinders right out of the box and install them. Didnt clean, didnt check ring gaps, didnt check deck, nothing,Lol. In my mind, they were new and good to go

[modok]

At least it's a logical assumption.
I'm sure many did, and, it worked most of the time back in the old days, but things do get strange.
I'd say near half of the high end engine builders "know" (or, have the opinion opinion) that all new heads need a valve job, so, why would the supplier do a high effort valve job if the buyer is just going to re-do it anyway?
But average joe assumes the opposite, that a new head is ready to run.
So I guess it depends on their target market.

And its the same way with cylinders.

Actually has a basis in reality.
A fresh honed cylinder will be rounder and -brighter- than one honed two years ago.

Some parts are ready to run, some aren't, and many are in a strange grey area of, we aren't really sure what they were thinking.

[slalombuggy]

As an automotive tech and working in a couple of higher end shops I had to deal with a lot of utube certified mechanics and it just got worse the better consumer based scanner got . They would come in tell me what the code was and what part needed to be changed. I would listen to them and their reasoning and then ask them if they did any electrical testing of the parts or harness or looked at the data stream and whether or not they understood what the numbers were telling them explained how we would approach the problem and let them decide. I've replaced thousands of dollars in parts that didn't fix anything following the owners instructions, but mostly I've said them from replacing parts that didn't need to be.

As far as learning from others. I am always open to new ideas, technics and products. I've learned a ton from guys on here, but I also learned who the parrots are. At the same time I will also tell people what has worked for me even if people don't agree with me, it's worked for me so I'm gonna put it out there. Everything I've done I haven't learned from others and tried it. Being in the middle of nowhere, with limited resources and funds I've never had the luxury to experiment much so I always have done a lot of reading there used to be a couple of forums where all the top vw racers and engine builders hung out. I joined, kept my mouth shut and read for 4 months before I ever asked a question.

As far as ring lube. I clean everything wipe some oil on the skirts and spray the cylinders, and rings down with wd40. Ya, I know hate me, but I didn't just invent it. Guys that have built 1000s of aircooled engines taught me that one.

[nextgen]

As Modok said, back in the old days, for me that was the 1960s living in
DA BRONX, NY the bug was a throw away car. Bugs were all over, as for the bodies, few did not were with out dents bangs and rot. My dad, brother and I were in to fixing them with part from the local junk yard. Most were just Station Bugs, just for trips to the bus stops or train stations. Who needed heat, the bug would not got warm in the short trips. All they wanted was it to start. We had no clue what we were doing . Buy a Bug for 50 bucks and strip it and put the parts in the Station car. No testing for or cleaning if piston fit and if it was from a 1500 and it fit in a 1600 fine. Ok so at least the guy had 3 original, ha.


Those were the days.

They did not care.
Oh notice the extra solid steel Bumpers on my Bug. I made them because people in DA BRONX parked by sound. Go back till you hear a bang, then go forward till you hear another bang. Perfect !!!!!

BTW that is the same bug I drive today with my T 4 in it.

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[jfdestree]

Ok, i'm a newbie builder with 3 rebuilds under my belt.

I used to use Torco assembly lube on bearings, cam gear and oil pump.
Cleaned with hot water and soap and a bit of oil on cylinders and pistons.

Works good enough.

On the last one I used Liquimoly LM48 on bearings, cam gear, camshaft and lifters, and oil pump. Why? Because it is easier to obtain over here

Results: It seems to give the oil a metallic color, like a bearing being eaten. I dissolve a bit of assembly lube in fresh oil, which gave the same exact color. Pretty annoying as I don't really know what happen inside the engine. It also doesn't seems to dissolve with low detergent oil and end on the bottom of the case.
Positive note, engine sounds quieter, which must be the moly contains in the LM48.
I don't know what to think about.

On cylinders, I used Brian_e method.
I cleaned them first, then put them in an ultra sonic cleaner. While I though they were clean enough , water was dirty in minutes! 15min ultra sonic, clean water rinse, 15min more minutes, clean water rinse, then blow them dry and total seal quick seat (REALLY expensive to get in EU...) , first a check to see if it turns green, which didn't , brake cleaner, recheck, green tint . A bit of oil on pistons before assmebly. I have to say it really works. No blow by, even compression on all 4, and oil stay clean longer.
Totally valid method in my opinion.

I would like to use the LM48, but I have a mix feeling. It is great because it stick on parts, and as I can have months between assembly and engine starting, it is a good point. It makes less noise on startup, Moly is know to protect parts.
But the color it gaves to the oil is a bit annoying. If I didn't had try to mix some with fresh oil, I would have disassembled the engine. Or should I have?

[Zed999]

On the subject of oil not staying on parts, I think people worry unnecessarily about this. I once took apart an engine I know for a fact had sat for over 10 years. Everything was still coated in oil.*

*Internals, the barrels are likely going to rust if it's stored in damp conditions though I'd guess if you allowed the valves to shut by removing the rockers that would probably stop that...but engines like that - leaving it 10 years is not usually planned.

[vwracerdave]

For engine assembly lube I just use whatever national brand NAPA has on the shelf, Permatex or Lucas. One of the self-appointed guru's here on The Samba uses a 50/50 mix of STP and 30W oil.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[Dusty1]

[bedlamite]

[oprn]

That's all I use.
_________________
Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[nextgen]

Oprn what what you said is exactly right !


"Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old "


I went to a exotic car show. Over 100 cars, guards made sure to stop any cars not exotic'' like a Bugotti, Austin Martin and Lamborghini.

But they let my bug in. Those cars were well over $100,000. The Judges said Joe you may no win every show but you sure have the most spectators !!!

As fancy as those exotics look they are not Iconic !
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[BFB]

[Rob Combs]

Back in the early 2000's, when I was a dealer tech, I was fortunate enough to go to an engine disassembly, inspection, and reassembly course taught by Mitsubishi Motors. Their instructions with regard to piston/cylinder reassembly was make sure everything is clean, put the piston/rings in dry, finish assembling, and run it. You could hear the gasps in the room.

They followed up with, if you insist on using an assembly lube of any kind, use ONE DROP of engine oil for each cylinder/piston/ring set, smear it around, finish reassembly, and run it.

I trusted they knew what they were talking about, and they knew ring seating with replacement rings was an issue out in the field. At that time, the blocks were iron, but I do not know the composition of their rings. I would assume that might make a difference.

Another interesting nugget of knowledge they dropped in that course was that if you drove out a piston, make sure to note the ring gap position. If they were in a straight line, it wasn't because THEY didn't know how to assemble an engine, it was because the cylinders were out of round. Every time.

Note that being a dealer tech is not the same skill set as doing performance work. We could assemble engines all day long but the goal was to bring them, and every other system in a car, back to performing as it was originally designed to perform. You had to be good at restoring any and all systems, oftentimes without the tooling and equipment the factory had at its disposal. No jetting carbs, no high performance work, no tuning tweaks, etc. When a modified car landed in your bay with some crazy problem the modifier probably created, it usually meant you were getting ready to lose your ass. The owner already spent all their money modifying the car and is fully expecting warranty to cover whatever they effed up. There's no money left to correct what they effed up. Bit I digress.

For whatever that is worth to the conversation.

This has been a great thread. Thanks Modok for starting it.

[cmaxcliff]

[raygreenwood]