Notchback Headliner Installation

[bellnotch65]

Here are the bow end springs that I have from the headliner I removed over 20 some years ago and they all appear to be the same length, just a little different angle. Also, the bows vary from 44 7/8 to 45 1/4.

The Bentley manual says that all of the rod/bows are cut the same and that there are 5 springs on each side, with the front 2 being the shortest and the 3 towards the rear, the longest.

My car obviously came with the 6 rod/bows and these springs clips. Any thoughts on ways of identifying the shortest springs and longest rod/bows?

Here's a photo of the springs I have. I laid them out in a pattern based on the angle.

[Bobnotch]

I think the springs are all the same, it's the bows that are different. The longest bows will be used right over the rear of the door opening (widest part of the roof), and will taper rearward as you go from there. I think there is one bow between the windshield and the door post (2nd bow location). It's been a few years since I did my headliner, and it was a sunroof headliner at that, so it was short 2 bows due to the sunroof opening. I hope this helps.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[bellnotch65]

Thanks for the help here. I really appreciate it. I've searched far and wide fo r videos/instructions on a type 3 headliner install from beginning to end and haven't been able to find one which is why all of the questions.

I have a TMI vinyl headliner. At what point should I trim the slots the bows go through on the headliner for the bows to protrude to fit into the springs? Maybe where they start curving down?

Thanks again.

[bellnotch65]

Here's a quick layout of the headliner out of the car with the bows laid out and center lines marked on the headliner. Small piece of tape added to the center of each bow to make sure rod is centered with headliner. Just need to figure out how far to trim back the sleeves on the headliner.

[Rome]

Your "chromie" rims are 4-bolts with the 8 cooling slots. Factory steel 4-bolt rims would've started with the '66 model year, along with the Squareback and Fastback. Does your Notch have a '66 thru '68 frame (despite the chassis# you listed), or '66+ brake components; or wide-5 to 4 wheel adapters?

[bellnotch65]

The wheels aren't the original that I know. When I first got the car, I was planning on restoring it as a driver and wanted disc brakes up front so that's why the rims are the ones you see.

Several years ago, I had some parts that were located at a family members house that were stolen by a family friend. Fortunately, the family got the Porsche speedster back, but the vw parts that were mixed in with the other porsche parts never returned.

The original wheels, brakes, exhaust and other things were part of the loss. I'm sure as I go through reassembly, I'll find other things missing.

I do still have the original 1500 single car engine and the transmission.

[mdege]

[Bobnotch]

[Bobnotch]

[bellnotch65]

I'm starting to understand the difficulty/challenge of the headliner. Especially when I've never attempted one before. A lot of prep work...deep dives into the web...

It's been almost 25 years since I removed the headliner so there you go. It sounds like the clothe, from what I've also read about, is a bit more challenging.

Here's a couple more photos of my progress. The question I have is there supposed to be insulation at the top portion of the windshield behind the rear view mirror, sun visor and visor clip? Looks like there was insulation running down both sides of the A? pillar towards the front hood. I'm not sure if that is the A pillar...this is the portion where the interior cabin light's wiring ran to the underside of the driver's dash.

[Zwitterkafer]

Yes, there was thin padding on the A pillars. It is present on my Nov '62 and was on my '69 N model Notch as well. On the Nov '62, the panel to which the mirror is screwed does not appear to have had any padding. I just checked real closely and there were no traces of padding or glue anywhere on it. There is a small stiff grey foam pad wedged in behind where the mirror goes, presumably to stiffen that area and prevent the mirror from vibrating.

About the bows and springs; on both my Notchbacks there were 12 identical springs and 6 identical bows. Neither has a sunroof of course. Some springs might look a little different if slightly bent upon "forceful" removal.

Best of luck, I look forward to seeing progress!
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"Criticism comes easier than Craftsmanship"
- Zeuxius, 400 BC

[bellnotch65]

Yes it doesn't appear on my Notchback that there was glue or padding installed on the upper mirror/windshield opening. I guess than I will just add the padding to the A pillars and continue under the sun visor mount on both sides down to the dash area.

It's comforting to know that the 12 springs and 6 bows were identical on your Notchback. The only real difference on mine is there is a little difference in length which I will take into account where they are placed.

Thanks again for all of the help here.

[bellnotch65]

Here is the dry fit of the headliner.

[Bobnotch]

The "A" posts are the front of the door jambs that surround the windshield. Going off your pic above, you'll need to cut the bow strips some more so you can tighten the material up after pulling it and glueing it in place. You'll definitely need to heat the headliner to shrink into the curved shapes along the sides.
You're right, in that doing a cloth headliner is harder to do than a vinyl one. Prior to doing my Notch, I had done 2 beetles and a Fastback in vinyl, then redid the fastback in cloth (turned out much better the second time). I had also used the video from TMI that they used to include with their headliner kits (don't know if they still do). It did kind of help, but some of the advice here in the forums would have been more help (I did the bug and Fastback headliners back in the 90's, then in the early 2000's I did my Notch headliner (first time doing one with a sunroof). I hope this helps.

P.S. You're going to want to leave about an inch overlap around the window openings, as VW trimmed the vinyl on them from the outside, as they glued the vinyl to the window seal lips, and the door lips (hiding the edges under the trim and window seals.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[squaretobehip]

I was randomly looking at djfordmanjack's thread on his 1963 Notchback and he had a good shot of his rear C-Pillar. Might help you when you get there.

_________________
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1963 Squareback - Pearl White
1965 Squareback - Baltic Blue

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[bellnotch65]

Thanks for the photo. That will be a great point of reference for me.

Here are a few images of the headliner installed. Had to work out a few wrinkles near the rear window. That seemed to be the toughest area to smooth out. I finished it last night and had it sitting all day today and noticed a few spots. Luckily I was able to take back the liner carefully, do some relief cuts and re-stretch it back.

I'll be working on the pillars later in the week and install the windows over the weekend.

[Mike Fisher]

Came out nice!
I had doubts with Monday's pictures.
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https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[Bobnotch]

[squaretobehip]

[bellnotch65]

Thanks. Yeah, it was a bit shaky to figure out how to start. That's Monday for you. I'm really happy with the way it turned out for a first timer though.

I wish I took photos of the cuts to the sleeves, but I forgot to, sorry about that. I do know I took off 5 1/4 total off the long sleeves and maybe 2 inches off the rear shorter sleeves so they all evenly matched. There was about 1 1/2 inches or so of exposed rod on each end. I wish I would have trimmed more material off the sleeves to make it more flush with the headliner before installing. It made it a challenge to glue up to the car. But I'd have to do it again and I'm not taking this one down! Maybe there's a better way to cut the sleeves before installing...?