Making robust front beam and baja bumper

[plotch]

I need to attach the front bumper to the beam securely enough for a winch. I'll have the beam cut and turned but the beam has repaired lower shock towers. Can i replace them with plate?. Can i replace the upper tower with something besides sheet metal? Edit: oops ball joint beam.

I do not have a roll cage at this time. I've looked at lots of threads with search but have struck out.

Thanks you to the dirtpile.

[Dale M.]

The strongest place for a winch mount without adding additional bracing from pan/body to beams is to attach the winch mount to the 4 bolts that hold beam to the pan head....

There is/was a kit to brace front beam from pan to lower beam available for basically off road use....Don't know what its called or who makes them all I can remember is seeing then pictured in Baja Bug & Buggies book......

Also be aware that front clip welded in nuts that hold the beam are not threaded all the way through, if you are attaching something with those bolts be sure bolts are threaded in all the way and are not just bottoming out in weld in nuts... (If I am doing beam work I always run tap through and continue threads all the way through so bolts don't bottom out)...

Probably not a lot of help, but gives you some direction to think about...

As for beefing up front beam there is/was a kit out for that also... Don't know if its still available but you can get idea from image...

Lots of good stuff in this book if its still available...

https://www.jbugs.com/product/11-0205.html
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[plotch]

If i cut and turn 1/4" , two inches of lift; should i relocate the upper shock mount? And if so, where? I've been looking for a thread that dusty mojave posted addressing this topic but cannot find it. Thanks, again.

[DHale_510]

Likely not. Your Bigger problem will be better snubbers at both ends. Metal to metal is bad.
As far as a winch, I have built a heavy bumper/tow mount with extensions welded just above the torsion tubes, and a cross beam. Also welded a big tow loop to the lower torsion tube and used the other guy's winch. You would likely need a tube frame front support for a true winch mount.
Dennis

[ORANGECRUSHer]

At one point I had a small winch on my baja. I cut and turned my beam and while I was at it I added some sturdy mounts for a bumper. I tried to go back and see if there were pictures left from my build thread, but that was evidently back when we were all using photobucket. I welded short lengths of tubing that fit inside the 1-1/2" bumper tubing. Then I attached the bumper with simple bolts going through the two tubes. I didn't even use heavy bolts. I don't think they're 1/4"-20's, maybe #12's.

I sunk my baja in water that was about two to three foot deep between some sand dunes and a pickup pulled me out by my winch line. He was not gentle.

It's good to make sure you securely mount your winch. I thought mine was coming off that day but it didn't. The controller ended up going bad and I haven't bothered to replace the winch since.
_________________
Brian H.

OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT

[dustymojave]

Paul, I'm picturing your ?? better through this thread.

You're getting some good suggestions from the guys above.

Dale M.:
"The strongest place for a winch mount without adding additional bracing from pan/body to beams is to attach the winch mount to the 4 bolts that hold beam to the pan head...."

YEP!!! And definitely tap the bosses through the to the back side.

Those braces are good. You mount them to sheet metal, which is not so good. But it's pretty solid sheet metal locations. They will clear the stock gas tank. Backer plates on the uppers will be important. Bigger plates than than the plates on the ends of the tubes would be better on both sides. The lower braces mount with the angle iron down and the tube lower than the bottom of the pan. You MAY NOT be able to buy these prefabricated. But are EZ to fab. If you don't have access to a bender for the uppers, you can make it out of 2 pieces of tube with the tube mounted to the firewall extend straight ahead with an angled tube down to the beam. The straight ahead tube could extend to your front bumper. Might have to cut or put plate flanges at the lower panel below the gas tank.

Mount your upper bumper tubes to those upper beam braces and at the bottom to the lower beam mount bolts and/or the lower brace clamps.

Ball joints only allow ~6" of wheel travel, even with the high angle ones EMPI is selling now (that are popular with the Class 11 guys now). Although the old high angle joints proved themselves weak, the current ones seem to be hanging in there pretty well under racing conditions.

SO...Any shock that fits on the stock mounts will take all of the droop travel and bump travel that the joints will handle. Nobody EVER needed longer "Lifted" shocks for ball joints. If you need to deal with rotted away/poorly patched shock towers, then I GET fabricating new towers. The ones that Dale shared are for link pin. There USED TO BE such towers for ball joint beams. I haven't seen those for decades.You could make your own or make towers out of steel tube or plate. You could even make plate or tube towers that would use link pin shocks with bolt through eyes instead of the pin style ball joint shocks.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[BFB]

No way in hell id mount a winch using the 4 beam bolts. 4 1/4” grade 8’s probably have higher shear strength the what the beam bolts will hold with a lateral pull which is solely against the threads. In normal use the beam bolts arent taking much force fore and aft, theres more force pushing up and down ( shear ) and thats also being absorbed by the cups the beam sits in as well. If any of those beam bolts pulls out not only do you have a lose winch but a lose beam too.
I’d weld a plate to the bulkhead itself and mount the winch to it. Not saying the beam bolts wont hold , but i wouldnt risk it. Ive also had a truck so buried in a mud hole that two trucks pulling in tandem couldn’t get me out, took farmer Jo’s 4x4 tractor to get the job done and next day realized we were pulling so hard that we bent the frame of my truck.
_________________
Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.  
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1

[DesertSasquatchXploration]

The beam bolts are 10.9 once you tap them all the way thru and use longer bolts its plenty strong . I flat tow off my custom tube bumper that bolts on using the beam bolts its not coming off. If you want you can even back it up with a nut and washer.

[liquidrush]

I attached the easy way. My bumpettes are more ornamental but also pass inspection. And yes, I prefer stainless hardware.

.

[plotch]

Cut out the rust and added plate to reinforce front beam. Turned the beam a quarter inch also.