Almost done with my 40HP then......

[aviator8]

I think I have a problem and have to take 10 steps back. But before I do, I wanted to get some input from more experience minds. First for some history and specs. I bought a 1967 beetle to restore a few years ago. I have completed the majority of the restoration, and was down to getting the engine ready. When I pulled the engine I went about identifying it and one of the first things I checked was the endplay to determine if I should keep or replace it. It is a 64 40HP. I was ok using it if it was in decent condition. My brother and I measured the endplay and got .005 so in spec but at the outer limit. I decided to keep it. As I tore things down I found that the engine sat with the carb exposed to the elements and water ingressed down the intake to one side. I evaluated it and determined the valves and seats were too pitted to recover so decided to do a top end rebuild. It had 83MM Big bores on it so I got a replacement kit. Cut forward past finding all the right parts for the engine and I completed what I set out to do.

Last night we pulled the engine off the stand and started assembling accessories. Before we got too far I wanted to pull the flywheel again and replace the oil seal since I had access and check the endplay one last time. Then I discovered the bad news. I was measuring endplay of .01. So I thought I need to get different shims. So off to The Samba I went, where I discovered two pieces of bad news. First you cant just go buy a shim kit for the 40HP motors made before 66. Second somethings not quite right and the endplay is a combination of #1 thrust bearing play and endplay left from shimming. So my understanding is that I probably have a #1 thrust bearing slop issue that has to be addressed by cracking the case and having machine work done. UGGH, take apart everything I did and start over! I have no idea how we measured in spec before and waaaay out now. Maybe pulling the top end apart and reassembling? no idea but I am positive we measure .005 before more than once and I am positive I am getting .01 now.

So now I want to verify my thrust bearing play, but I read to do that you throw another shim in and tighten the gland nut until the crack wont turn then recheck to see what the endplay is. It should be zero. Problem is I have no 4th shim and apparently they are like trying to find gold nuggets. So to question one. Is there another way to verify I am out of tolerance on that bearing?

Second thing is if I am out of spec and I need to go down the path of machining the case and rebuilding the internals what do I do when done and I need to set the endplay but nobody makes shims? My gut says my three shims wont be what I need.

If I do need to go this path, How do I determine if I have enough life in the case to even recover it?

I guess the last question for now is if I am cracking the case and am going to try to rebuild the guts, never having done this, are there things I should consider in terms of parts, cam options, improvements I should talk to the machine shop about? I already know I need to get case savers if Im am doing this. Other things? Im not really interested in trying to make this a monster and squeeze all possible HP out of it but want a good reliable engine that drives nice.

I am attaching a few pictures to show where I am and the engine details. Appreciate any advice I can get.

Here is where I am before discovering my issue

Case stamps

Crank end checking diameter

109 tooth flywheel

Shim ID

[Bub]

Seems like you're making a bigger puzzle than it needs to be. But yes, you probably need to have the thrust cut on the case.
Doing that and having the proper matching thrust bearing brings the whole equation back into spec- so at that point all you need is the regular off the shelf shims, you shouldn't need anything very hard to get.
And worst case you can take a couple 0.000" off the hub of the flywheel OR add/ remove the paper /'tin' gasket that goes on between the flywheel and crank.

Those are one of those things that VW overthought and if things are nice and flat and clean you can get away without. I've taken engines apart with more than 1 paper/tin gasket back there that didn't seem to create any issues.

*Aldo noticed you have an o-ring in your picture, you're not going to need that for an early/ stepped flywheel.
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[esde]

The endplay is determined by the space between the #3 crank throw and flywheel. When the bearing is loose in the case, you might not know if you're measuring bearing endplay, or how much the bearing moves in the case.
At that point, it doesn't matter, you just need to fix the loose bearing..
Get the case line bored and some new bearings, as long as the crank looks and checks out ok.
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[aviator8]

I have a machine shop lined up locally that does VW work. They will evaluate the case. Most likely the following will be done if the case is within tolerance:

line bore
thrust cut
cranks polished or adjusted to next size and polished
if no cam bearings I am considering putting those in, thoughts on need?
Should I get it tapped for an external oil filter?
I dont know what cam it has or shape. Which Engle cam would be a good application here?

I am pretty sure my three shims will not be what I need to adjust endplay once put back together. Does any one have a private stash since nobody makes them for the early 40HP?

[Ojai63dbl]

Those shims dried up quick. Wolfsburg used to have them. Id contact Heimlich at NOS parts. I think this is what you need but he will know for sure so ask before buying. You can reuse them if flat. and the 1500-1600 (ends in A) will not work.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2517875

[08west]

[tpinthepack]

I don't think the rubber o-ring is used on a 40hp flywheel. I see an image on your post with the metal shim, and an o-ring, but the flywheel looks like a step flywheel, and those don't have the groove for the o-ring seal.
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TP in the Pack (I am a cyclist)
1968 Manx N.O.S. w/ Barrett Chassis
1960 Single Cab 1914 w/ 40 DLRA's
1990 Vanagon DOKA
1972 Super Beetle
1979 Super Beetle Convertible
2011 Porsche Cayenne

[RWK]

Once you determine your main bearing is correct and not moving, you can pre- determine end play before assembly, however a depth micrometer is needed to measure.
Measure from crank end to crank flange, this is distance A
Measure flywheel pocket depth, end to crank mounting surface, this is B
Measure main bearing width, "C"
A-B equals gap for bearing "C", shims and end play.
So if gap A-B, is 20m and bearing "C" is 18.5 you need 1.5 mm for shims and end play.
This is the way factory sorted it out, cranks were measured, flywheels were measured, and sorted into different sizes, (A & B dimensions that varied) bearings were all close enough, a certain crank was mated to a certain flywheel would get a certain shim pack to fit.
Don't forget metal or paper seal that the 40 hp uses, B minus this thickness.
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73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[RWK]

Forgot, I have some used 40hp shims, PM me
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73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530