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heimlich 
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 7249
Location: Houston, Texas
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 Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2024 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
Base MSPR from google is 39,345. average loan rate is 5.5% therefore you're 51,100 all in, MINUS property taxes.
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MSRP means nothing. I don't know anyone who pays MSRP. I just checked my bank. 4.99% for a new car loan. Sounds like you are off. No property taxes in Texas.
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Last edited by heimlich on Sat Dec 14, 2024 9:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15575
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2024 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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$38,300 sale price. ($41,570 MSRP sticker)
1.9% financing at 72 months with 3K cash down, financed directly through Ford Credit.
$1860 total for all taxes, tag, & registration in the state of Oklahoma, paid in cash.
Total after all payments $42K
There is no property taxes on vehicles in OK.
Since this thread is actually about EV's the local VW dealer has a VW Buzz on the lot. $72,385 MSRP
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
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Last edited by vwracerdave on Mon Dec 09, 2024 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17509
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2024 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
$38,300 sale price. ($41,570 MSRP sticker)
1.9% financing at 72 months with 3K cash down, financed directly through Ford Credit.
$1860 total for all taxes, tag, & registration in the state of Oklahoma, paid in cash.
Total after all payments $42K
There is no property taxes on vehicles in OK. |
as long as you were ok with the price, that's all that matters. but not everyone is in that price range and I was basing everything off of averages
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17509
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2024 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| heimlich wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
Base MSPR from google is 39,345. average loan rate is 5.5% therefore you're 51,100 all in, MINUS property taxes.
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MSRP means nothing. I don't know anyone who pays MSRP. I just checked my bank. 4.99% for a new car loan. Sounds like you are off. No property taxes in Texas.
I'll quote you for the rest.
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
you're so full of shit, stop talking...you're making yourself look stupid
G-d dude, stop talking about shit you have zero experience with. Your information is so bad it should be criminal that you even post it
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your comprehension prowess is unmatched 
I made sure to call it out in bold text so you can follow along with the rest of the adults in the conversation.
and, in case that didn't help clear things up for your smooth brain, the operative word is AVERAGE
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 32350
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2024 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| There is no property taxes on vehicles in OK. |
Arizona here: sales tax on the new vehicle, registration fees (tax) based on value of vehicle.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Last edited by Cusser on Tue Dec 10, 2024 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 7249
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2024 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| vwracerdave wrote: |
| There is no property taxes on vehicles in OK. |
Arizona here: sales tax on the new vehicle, registration fees based on value of vehicle. |
We have a one time sales tax. The registration fee you pay based on value every year is basically a property tax.
_________________
www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
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the_benjamin_effect
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2010
Posts: 264
Location: Gateway to the North Cascades, Washington State
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 12:41 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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I remember doing School Bus fire drills in elementary school, but this is something totally new...
Link
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finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 9225
Location: not far from the madding crowd
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 2:46 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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volvo hybrid fire shocker
Link
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"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 32350
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 6:52 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| Arizona here: sales tax on the new vehicle, registration fees (tax) based on value of vehicle. |
For example, my 1970 and 1971 VWs, my 1988 Mazda truck, my 1998 Frontier, and maybe my 2004 Frontier are all "bottomed out" at $10 tax per year. Mrs. Cusser's 2014 is still a coupe hundred dollars per year if I remember correctly.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 2797
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
| Arizona here: sales tax on the new vehicle, registration fees (tax) based on value of vehicle. |
For example, my 1970 and 1971 VWs, my 1988 Mazda truck, my 1998 Frontier, and maybe my 2004 Frontier are all "bottomed out" at $10 tax per year. Mrs. Cusser's 2014 is still a coupe hundred dollars per year if I remember correctly. |
My 61 Bug registration is at $165 in California, and it goes up and up often. It is a rip off. Our roads are notably in poor repair compared to that of Arizona.
California,the workers paradise. Well at least we have free healthcare for "migrants". |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17509
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| finster wrote: |
volvo hybrid fire shocker
Link
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We've been seeing corrosion issues on the HV batteries.
Which honestly, is pretty amazing but we use to joke that the 2/4/700 series sucked ass in the winter you'd think the Swedes would have figured out the light rear end issues, I guess they still haven't figured out corrosion areas either
And volvo hasn't made a car that doesn't leak water since about 1997
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 22465
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Just watched this and someoneelse posted the link in the ID buzz thread.
I drive tons of miles in the dead of winter. Hundreds at a time.
The ID buzz vehicle and any electric vehicle that would produce this result....can't charge....cold sucks the life out of it etc.....is worthless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbsduv0vezo
The guy driving this car is an EV fanboy and he is bitching about the "infrastructure" letting him down. One comment was the vehicle is fine but the infrastructure makes road trips have mileage anxiety. 
If it was not an electric vehicle....the infrastructure could not let it down.
Ray |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 23156
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 4:09 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Edge cases don’t define success of technology
Urban scenario..total win for EVs
Suburban scenario …probably 80% win for EVs, like where I am
Rural .probably 50% viable
Anyone driving less than 200 miles/4 hours a day, out and back to same location, total win.
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.ssS! |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 32350
Location: Hot Arizona
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kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4294
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| My brother just bought a used Polestar; I had never even heard of those. |
They advertise fairly frequently on CNBC |
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kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4294
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Abscate wrote: |
Edge cases don’t define success of technology
Urban scenario..total win for EVs
Suburban scenario …probably 80% win for EVs, like where I am
Rural .probably 50% viable
Anyone driving less than 200 miles/4 hours a day, out and back to same location, total win. |
Exactly!
Who would want an unreliable vehicle in a rural setting.
Our friend is a long time Tesla owner, now on their second. They are urban dwellers and drive about 100 miles a week.
Occasionally they drive it on longer trips.
My SIL is in his second year of EV ownership. A Ford F150 Lightning.
He has a 25 mile commute to his office in the city then does a lot of air travel.
His only complaint has been the quirky software link between the truck and his phone.
Works well for them. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17509
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| My brother just bought a used Polestar; I had never even heard of those. |
Polestar is basically a regurgitated Volvo.
And in typical Volvo (now China) form, they make it almost impossible to service from a logistics point of view
on one hand Volvo doesn't want anything to do with them... on the other hand, they are a spin off of Volvo and are rebadged Volvo's, the problem is even though they share the same diagnostic platform, they require additional hoops to jump thru
Many Volvo dealers won't fool with them.
Think of it like this, a 88 Nova was really a Corolla but if you brought it to Toyota for service, they would turn it away, just like if you brought your Toyota to Chevy they'd do the same (usually)
Basically it's a mutt of a car that's 1 argument away from being abandoned by Volvo (think of the breakup between SAAB an GM)
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 2797
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Abscate wrote: |
Edge cases don’t define success of technology
Urban scenario..total win for EVs
Suburban scenario …probably 80% win for EVs, like where I am
Rural .probably 50% viable
Anyone driving less than 200 miles/4 hours a day, out and back to same location, total win. |
Well let us assume you are correct, that folks that live in urban areas never ever take long trip, ever, and of course always have a place to charge rapidly, no lines at the charge station ever. Also assume that urban users also have off street parking with a charger, and assume that their apartments allow charging in the under apartment garages, despite fire risks. And assume the apartment block has adequate power service for say 500 cars all charging at once. So total win for them, 100%!!!!
Then the suburbs, there is off street parking for charging for 80% of the cars (despite me finding that nearly half the cars owned on my suburban area do park on the street) Let us assume that a household have four charger ports, just in case the family at the house has four drivers, and four cars., and assume the power never goes out in say a storm. And we will assume that 80% of the trips they take never ever exceed the range of the car, always assuming the cars can be fully charged at home, even when the power is out, even when multiple cars need to be charged each evening. The issue is 20% of the time the electric car is unable to perform.
Then lastly we have the rural users, we must assume that again they can charge multiple cars each evening, one for each driver, We must also assume that the power never shuts off, despite low priority given to restoring power to isolated homes with long transmission lines. These cars will only be useful half the time, 50%.
Of course for all of the three situations, we have to assume there is enough electric generation capacity to charge all these cars, so many many new power plants must be built, and since the goal is green transportation, all these new plants are limited for the most part to solar and windmill, and that they work even in the dead of a cloudy winter, on windless days.
Keep also in mind that these electric cars do tend to cost more than normal cars, and that price difference may well get worse as even more copper, lithium cobalt etc are consumed to make these electric cars (of course slave child labor in red china were worker and enviromental protection laws are lax for mines may help keep the cost down) And we also understand that as these cars age, their range decreases as the expensive battery ages.
So we have given these rosey projections that urban users find these cars 100% usable, urban users 80% useful, and rural users 50% useful.
Yet government mandates are in place to ban the sale of normal cars, and plans to increase the price of gasoline with taxes to the point of making gasoline cars unusable for all but the rich.
Oh and let us not forget some states mandating all electric big rig trucks, how useful is that?
Yes, an electric car might be 100% useful for some, if one ignores their many problems in regards to charging, costs, electric generation capacity, battery life, limitation in cold, range, etc.... But for a hell of a lot of people these cars simply will not work much of the time, yet we are being forced to switch to them, forced by screwball politicians who dont have a clue about technical things, politicians who pander to certain groups, while stomping on others.
For that reason alone, I hate these electric cars. Dont force these many times near useless things on 100% of the people.
Last edited by zerotofifty on Sat Dec 14, 2024 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 22465
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Abscate wrote: |
Edge cases don’t define success of technology
Urban scenario..total win for EVs
Suburban scenario …probably 80% win for EVs, like where I am
Rural .probably 50% viable
Anyone driving less than 200 miles/4 hours a day, out and back to same location, total win. |
Not buying it.
While posting a single video can be construed as an edge case.....its pretty common that in cold weather, road trips over 250+ miles with virtually any of the common EV's is problematic.
Some of this is the vehicle itself, some of it is the age of the EV and its battery state and just as much its either a lack of charging stations or the lack of WORKING charging stations.
That last point is not just a maintenance issue. There are plenty of issues with the charging station controls in cold weather.
Most of the EV owners I personally know have Tesla. Only one I know has a Ford.
All of them have had winter problems in Texas and Oklahoma. The distances these people have to drive on a semi-regular basis are very similar to what was driven in teh video link and are listed as medium range in parts of the country WEST of say...the carolinas.
Pittsburg to Chicago like in that video is 460 miles. He needed a hotel night and an extra 5 hours the next day just to keep the vehicle charged. If you watch that video, he was not getting more than 95- 125 miles in 25* weather per 80-85% charge. It was brand new. Thats common in cold weather with most EV's.
If these things were working right...on a piddly 450 miles drive....he should not have had to do more than two stops just to piss or maybe for a quick top up charge.
Your percentage guess for rural...@ 50%?...is wildly optimistic. It makes me ask what you call "rural". If you live largely in the northeast, New england etc.....what you people call rural is suburban. What you guys call suburban is the edge of town urban.....n most states west of you even into the midwest.
People who live rural in most central, central soutwest and western states up to but not inclucing most of california....easily drop 100-150 miles in daily driving to go get things and usually far more. Charging stations are few and far between. The weather can range from below 0 to over 100 depending on time of year.
I agree....urban should be a winner. However, this still gets back to the same question. Unless you have a parking space with charging...where are you going to park in urban work driving and grocery getting ...that has a dedicated charger that cannot be taken down by the outside temperature?
The vast majority of truly urban dwelling will be apartments.
The reason that video was interesting to me is because most of my friends who drive EV's....and love to crow about them all the time...have over the past three years posted rants about trying to take the odd road trip in their EV...(usually one that is not really that much of a road trip)....have it turn into a shit show just like the one in that video.
Most of these have been trips like Dallas to Baton Rouge, Oklahoma city to Houston, Kansas city to Dallas.....all 5-6 hout trips that should be nothing in the land of 75 mph speed limits.
Ray |
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3743
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| The last 2 posts sums up the status quo of ev's today. Very well said, thx |
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