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ORANGECRUSHer
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006
Posts: 3489
Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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 Posted: Thu May 15, 2025 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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I just pulled some nasty carliles off the wagon wheels I'm going to restore and put my STU razorbacks on. I'll tell you what, those tires did not want to come off. Strong ass beads. I beat the crap out of them with the bucket on my skid steer. I got one to let go and the other resisted. I was so annoyed by then i just went to discount tire and had them flip em off for $10.
They were the ribbed style trailer tire. I didn't use them but somebody obviously did. They had one rib around both edges of the tire and a good space and then two mabey three ribs down the center. They just barely fit the 5" wide rim - the rim sat proud of the sidewall. looked like crap.
If I had to make a guess with my limited knowledge of tire construction and based on what others have said about them not being fit for drive axle use, I would say these trailer tires are probably missing certain belts that passenger tires have. More specifically the angled belts. I would imagine they'd need belts going the circumference and belts perpindicular to those inorder to establish a load rating. But the cross belts probably add stability for operation in different vectors of load not typical in a tire held in place on a solid axle and being pulled from the outer circumference and not torqued from the center.
Despite all that, you guys really need to find something more important to argue about. Cops may check out a truckers tires, but he's not caring about your buggy. If they do you need to leave that state/country. I'm so tired of things being regulated to death!
_________________
Brian H.
OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-Dual 44IDF-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT-Donaldson Dual PowerCore filters-custom AL air boxes |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2622
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2025 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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| U&I wrote: |
Turned 58 this year,
45+ years wrenching on cars and trucks
30 years as a licensed plumber in three states
20 years as a gun builder
20 years as a hand engraver
There are quite a few of us that do not finish up with the day job and head home to get drunk eh. |
Doing shit part time in your spare time doesn’t qualify.
“Turning wrenches” for 45 years doesnt make you a mechanic, being a mechanic as your day job qualifies you as a mechanic.
Ive know people who have painted cars in there garage and done a fine job, however, theyd fail at it if they were to attempt to do it for a living. Therefore not a painter. HHUUUUUGE difference in doing something on the side vs full time for a living.
Full time is 40+ hours a week. You could work 120 hours a week and you still havent lived long enough to do all those jobs full time in your lifetime.
_________________
"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't. |
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ORANGECRUSHer
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006
Posts: 3489
Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2025 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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_________________
Brian H.
OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-Dual 44IDF-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT-Donaldson Dual PowerCore filters-custom AL air boxes |
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earthquake
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3994
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2025 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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Maybe there are different FET Taxes on trailer tires.
eQ
_________________
74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5552
Location: Lefty, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2025 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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As how it pertains to us, my understanding is side wall stiffness. Trailer tires are exposed to sidewall forces, that a road tire would never see. I'm not talking high speed cornering loads, But low speed maneuvering. When my buddy is maneuvering his 3 axle toy hauler into a parking spot, you can almost feel the stress that the axles, springs and tires are going through during maneuvering. In fact half of the tires are not even rolling, but scrubbing sideways. There are some serious forces at work here. As to why trailer tires are not legal for cars / trucks, I have no idea.
However, I don't think that I would select a TT for the front of my rail / buggy. Tires make a huge difference in ride quality, especially at lower speeds, so trailer tires would not be my 1st choice. Maybe some rated at A or B, but I don't know if there is such a thing. All of my trailer tires are required to be D /E.
One last thought. The general rule of changing trailer tires is 5 years. So does this mean a totally different rubber compound, that has a shorter life span?
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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DHale_510
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2010
Posts: 407
Location: Nampa Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2025 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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| I think the issue with trailer tires is they are tested differently and marked as such. This may not mean much for buggy front tire use, but the manufacturer and the testing business has no need to cross test the tires. So you are your own engineer here. Put on your big boy pants and try what you want. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 14704
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2025 4:19 am Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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I wonder if trailer tires were created as a result of guys like me that change out 4 tires on the car and save the best 2 for the trailer. Up until just recently I had never bought a trailer tire, a car tire with 24% tread left will do occasional trailer service for many years.
If there are tires sold specifically for trailers and the authorities can be convinced it is warranted to enforce that it then opens up a new market.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2622
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2025 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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I figure 50+ years ago ( just shooting in the dark a number here ) before they had radials that most tires were generally the same aside from size & tread. So im sure interchanging from one thing to another was no big deal. but now as weve overcomplicated things and come out with all kinds of different designs we also have higher expectations of the tires too. Im sure passenger tires of today perform better year round, give a smoother ride, and allow for higher speeds than the old tires did. And im sure trailer tires have thicker sidewalls and higher load rating.
SO can a passenger tires be used on a trailer successfully? Sure , but i bet it doesn’t perform as well as a tire designed specifically for trailer use. Same as a trailer tire on a car or buggy, it could work just fine but will it handle las well, shed water as well? Im sure the ride will be harsher. Same as implement tires on a buggy, great offroad, not so good on but ppl still do it.
All depends on what your purpose is and level of expectation, does someone want the highest level of performance for the application they can get or are they the type to use what they can / have , and if its a little sub par or doesnt last they are still happy because of its cost effectiveness.
_________________
"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't. |
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5552
Location: Lefty, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2025 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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| oprn wrote: |
I wonder if trailer tires were created as a result of guys like me that change out 4 tires on the car and save the best 2 for the trailer. Up until just recently I had never bought a trailer tire, a car tire with 24% tread left will do occasional trailer service for many years.
If there are tires sold specifically for trailers and the authorities can be convinced it is warranted to enforce that it then opens up a new market. |
Here in the US it is not legal to run trailer tires on cars. I don't know the law about car tires on trailers, but I have a feeling that in our sue happy environment, if you were running car tires on a trailer, and had a blow out that caused an accident, the lawyers would have a field day.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 14704
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2025 4:56 am Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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I am going to the tire shop this morning to pick up a new set of tires for the sand rail. I went with the smoothest car tire (finest tread without as much cross grooving) we could find on the front and quad tires for the rear. The old implement tires on the front were fine off road but when I flat towed it from place to place they went out of round badly at highway speeds and shook like a terrier with a rat.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2622
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2025 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
| oprn wrote: |
I wonder if trailer tires were created as a result of guys like me that change out 4 tires on the car and save the best 2 for the trailer. Up until just recently I had never bought a trailer tire, a car tire with 24% tread left will do occasional trailer service for many years.
If there are tires sold specifically for trailers and the authorities can be convinced it is warranted to enforce that it then opens up a new market. |
Here in the US it is not legal to run trailer tires on cars. I don't know the law about car tires on trailers, but I have a feeling that in our sue happy environment, if you were running car tires on a trailer, and had a blow out that caused an accident, the lawyers would have a field day. |
devils advocate, im sure its illegal to run non DOT approved anything on the road yet we ( vw ppl ) do it all the time.
also, lawyers only have a field day IF you either have money or a hefty insurance policy. neither of which majority of the average person has.
I'd say that IF anyone was smart enough to notice a passenger tire on a trailer that'd blown ( which most aren't, I work with these people on a daily basis ) then worse case scenario might be that your insurance company would deny the claim and if there were other damages to someone else's vehicle then they'd be forced to use their insurance company or take you to small claims if they didnt have full coverage.
_________________
"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't. |
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ORANGECRUSHer
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006
Posts: 3489
Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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It's an ever increasing problem with people self-policing themselves because of the fear of extreme what if's. It's a sign of a weakening population. Granted, fines and lawsuits are designed to make people think twice about breaking the law. But we are Americans for Pete's sake, (most of us), if you don't push back against ridiculous government regulation you might as well hand in your SS number and go live in California. Oops. Did I just say that?
If you walk out of your house today you could get hit by a meteorite, piece of a satelite, or an airplane toilet and die instantly.
Hopefully, being an adult, if you have some rather "unconventional" things on your 'rigs', you will be adult enough to evaluate whether you should be doing so for practical reasons and keeping a close eye on it's status. It's called responsibility. If something goes wrong, usually called an "accident", you man up and deal with the consequences. You deserve them. Being afraid and whining about other people who aren't is weak.
_________________
Brian H.
OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-Dual 44IDF-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT-Donaldson Dual PowerCore filters-custom AL air boxes |
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U&I
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2024
Posts: 42
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2025 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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| ORANGECRUSHer wrote: |
It's an ever increasing problem with people self-policing themselves because of the fear of extreme what if's. It's a sign of a weakening population. Granted, fines and lawsuits are designed to make people think twice about breaking the law. But we are Americans for Pete's sake, (most of us), if you don't push back against ridiculous government regulation you might as well hand in your SS number and go live in California. Oops. Did I just say that?
If you walk out of your house today you could get hit by a meteorite, piece of a satelite, or an airplane toilet and die instantly.
Hopefully, being an adult, if you have some rather "unconventional" things on your 'rigs', you will be adult enough to evaluate whether you should be doing so for practical reasons and keeping a close eye on it's status. It's called responsibility. If something goes wrong, usually called an "accident", you man up and deal with the consequences. You deserve them. Being afraid and whining about other people who aren't is weak. |
AMEN Brother
As a society we have lost sight of how this Nation came to be and the risks involved to get here, "here" now being a nanny state where nobody is willing to stand up and face the consequences of their actions.
As for me I would not run trailer tires on my bugs for the very reasons mentioned above, not willing to risk everything I own to save a few duckets and have my insurance company deny claim.
I have had to deal with auto insurance claims due to some loser running a stop sign and hitting me broadside, the adjusters are educated enough to know what they are looking for, wasn't my fault yet the hoops required to right things was stupid.
But hey, roll the dice and take your chances. |
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5552
Location: Lefty, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2025 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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| BFB wrote: |
| Multi69s wrote: |
| oprn wrote: |
I wonder if trailer tires were created as a result of guys like me that change out 4 tires on the car and save the best 2 for the trailer. Up until just recently I had never bought a trailer tire, a car tire with 24% tread left will do occasional trailer service for many years.
If there are tires sold specifically for trailers and the authorities can be convinced it is warranted to enforce that it then opens up a new market. |
Here in the US it is not legal to run trailer tires on cars. I don't know the law about car tires on trailers, but I have a feeling that in our sue happy environment, if you were running car tires on a trailer, and had a blow out that caused an accident, the lawyers would have a field day. |
devils advocate, im sure its illegal to run non DOT approved anything on the road yet we ( vw ppl ) do it all the time.
also, lawyers only have a field day IF you either have money or a hefty insurance policy. neither of which majority of the average person has.
I'd say that IF anyone was smart enough to notice a passenger tire on a trailer that'd blown ( which most aren't, I work with these people on a daily basis ) then worse case scenario might be that your insurance company would deny the claim and if there were other damages to someone else's vehicle then they'd be forced to use their insurance company or take you to small claims if they didnt have full coverage. |
Lawyers will find money where none exists. If your insurance isn't large enough, they can garnish your wages. As far as small claims court, that would only count for a fender bender, since the limit in CA is $12,500. That might get you a fender, and a matched paint for slight repairs. If you are an average middle class Joe, and they can determine or even think that a non DOT component caused a major accident, you will be in a world of hurt.
I have worked hard for all of my stuff (house, cars, toys), and I don't want some idiot brake checking me, to try and take it away. So not only is my equipment legal, but I also have forwards, and rear facing cameras. Plus I have an $1,000,000 umbrella insurance policy, that covers all of my possessions (its not that expensive).
And yes our country is going to hell in a hand basket. Just look at what is occurring out here in LEFTY CA.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 14704
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 4:03 am Post subject: Re: Trailer tires on front? |
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Unfortunately we have allowed lawyers and insurance companies to rule our lives. They have done it by taping into the two lowest and most miserable of the human emotions, fear and greed! As long as fear and greed are held/taught to be valued as part of the human condition insurance companies and lawyers are going to have a field day with us.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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