Starter for 1.9L: 2.2L starter or TDI

[Salinity]

About to replace my presumably stock starter (200+k miles). Intermittent no starts - rapping on the starter housing gets me going, so I'm looking to swap in a new/reman unit. I have an extra on the bench if I feel like rebuilding one for a spare, but for now I just want to get it up and starting reliably.

I read through the info and am looking for some feedback: 2.2L version vs the TDI adapter plate & hi-torq "upgrade". Cost is not really an issue, but I don't want to waste money.

2.2L starter: - less expensive route (<$200), though may be a crapshoot with quality. Rock Auto (and likely other vendors) has a bevy of reman and a new presumably Chinese-made starter for the 1986+ models (some listed for 1983+). Would the starters explicitly spec'd for a 2.2L engine (1986+) fit well on a 1.9? I assume there's a bit extra HP, which could only help starting, but I don't know about fitment (hard to verify HP or dimensions from the info given on RA or other sites).

TDI "upgrade": quite a bit more expensive ($350+) read a lot of praise for this route, but a couple questions:
- which starter to get (mid-grade is fine for my application)
- is it overkill on the 1.9L (seen mention that it may be)
-> I assume I'd still want to remove the bushing from the bell housing, so there's no chance of that rattling around in the trans.

Any other thoughts, tips or feedback appreciated. [/url]
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85 1.9L GL Tintop

[uberaudi]

Go tdi all the way! More torque, better availability without a question.
Ive had excellent luck with used starters from manual ALH's (99-03 VW tdi) and that would make going this route less expensive than a stock one. I used to get my adapter plate from Karl at WestyVentures, but I think he's retired now. T3 has them though. Don't forget the wiring plug too!
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'84 Adventurewagen 1Z TDI, '08 Audi Avant Quattro 6spd BHW TDI

[AndyBees]

First thing, you should add a Relay at or near the starter because the long wire from the ignition cannot carry sufficient current to activate the solenoid on any starter.

The TDI starter rocks. I'm not sure what you need to use on a non-Diesel Bell Housing. But, I used an adapter on a Diesel Bell Housing for my TDI. The difference was like day vs night.

There are cheaper starters. For what it is worth, after installing several different used Bosch TDI Starters, I installed a China Made. It has been doing just fine for five years. I did this because a friend had installed one of them on his 2001 Jetta TDI with success.
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'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI, two trips to Alaska, 2014 & 16. 1989 Tin-top unmolested.
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine, seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. 1975 Bay hopeful.

[Phishman068]

TDI 100%%%%%%%

That starter/adaptor is one of the greatest upgrades you can do to a vanagon. Here's a few reasons:

The rebuilt 2.1 Bosch starters that are available are garbage. Apparently some really unskilled folks rebuilt the entire batch of vanagon starters in the distribution system. They'll usually work out of the box, but I've seen a LOT of them fail in a year or so and start getting real unreliable. Additionally, that starter is tricky to swap out, especially on a syncro- the tdi is WAY easier to swap in.
Secondly, the tdi starter spins WAY faster, so even if your injection system, battery system, etc are not flawless and it would normally take a few cranks for you to get the engine to catch and start, the TDI will fire it up instantly.
It's more powerful, while being more compact, and WAY more available. If my tdi starter fails in the middle of nowhere, almost ANY inline 4 vw starter from about 2000-2020 will work! VERY available.
Thirdly, it removes, permanently, the need for the starter bushing in the manual transmission vanagons that frequently go bad and rarely get replaced, eliminating another part of the problem.

There are NEW (non rebuilt) TDI starters available and they'll outlive you, there are used ones for $45 online, and there are rebuilt ones as well- multiple tiers to choose from.

I would highly, highly advise against the "WASP" type starter. Those little guys are absolute junk. They're permanent magnet universal style starters that are just made to be compatible with a vanagon by switching out some bolt positions, and a few of our vendors sell them.
I have a very trusted local starter/alternator rebuild guy, and he has been struggling to build me stock 2.1 starters because many of the cores are unrebuildable (When the small wire going from the fields to the solenoid go bad- that's it, it's trash). He has at any given time a dedicated garbage bin to JUST those Wasp style starters, because apparently someone's buying the junk ones he swaps out for a living. But seriously, at any time- he's got 100 broken ones in a bin. He says they're garbage, refuses to install or rebuild those, and wend deep into why they suck one time.

I have the TDI starter on 3 of my 4 vanagons now, and I'll never go back.
It's truly fantastic!

Buy it from Karl Mullendore, who came up with it. Support the OG, not the copies. Karl now sells his adaptors through T3 Technique.
Here's his original page about the how's and why's of using a TDI starter:
https://westyventures.com/parts.html

And here's where you can purchase it from T3:
https://t3technique.com/products/tdi-starter-adapter
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559766&highlight=winter+rust
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482402&highlight=sunroof+syncro
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569774
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6864936#6864936

"Along with the ability to go fast, one looses the desire to hurry."

[crazyvwvanman]

IMHO there is a better option since you have a gas engine.
There is a more common and usually cheaper VW gas starter that fits the same "TDI" starter adapter.
Still more powerful than the WBX starters.

Bosch SR0425N for new ones, from Bosch but perhaps Far East made.
Bosch SR0425X rebuilt ones, often originally European made.

Mark

[Salinity]

Thanks for the quick responses. Sounds like TDI is a resounding yes. Is there a certain TDI starter I should look for? Seems like there are a few different types out there. Any model numbers I can use to cross reference?
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85 1.9L GL Tintop

[?Waldo?]

What is the 2.2L starter? Is that just a mistaken description of the stock WBX starter?

[Salinity]

[Salinity]

[syncrodoka]

The sr0425 starter is more powerful than a wbx starter and more compact than a TDI starter. I am running this on both a ej22 and stock 2.1 wbx without issue for years.

[syncrodoka]

[Salinity]

[Sodo]

Normally when tapping on the solenoid helps, it’s because the solenoid needs to be cleaned and re-lubed with graphite (dry lube).

Loosening and retightening starter mount nuts can restore that one leg (of 7 connections) of the groundpath.

If your new starter doesn’t work, try this.

Or consider upgrading your grounds before even unbolting your old starter.
Then you’ll know for sure if your $15 expenditure is immediately useful.

A new starter at 200,000 miles is not a “parts cannon” repair. Because then you have a new starter.
But it is useful to know what the actual problem was.
It can be a combination of aging problems, such as dry solenoid + insufficient current supply.
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'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Salinity]

[syncrodoka]

You need this type of single pin weatherproof connector.
https://vancafe.com/high-torque-starter-plug-harness/

[jlrftype7]

[?Waldo?]

'Need' might be overstating it. The stock spade connector will fit without issue. The weatherproof connector is a nice upgrade that helps prevent corrosion.

[syncrodoka]

The male spade connector on the stock starter is exposed while the tdi or shorter gas version is recessed so seating it fully is harder to see and manipulate. Because of this I have heard of of the stock female connector coming loose and leaving someone stranded.
The correct connector for the starter isn't expensive and there are advantages of using the correct part.

[?Waldo?]

I think the connector that matches the starter is a great idea. I'd recommend using it. It is not strictly necessary, though, is all I'm saying.

I have a van in my driveway that has had the stock Vanagon spade connector plugged into the TDI starter for the last 12 years without issue and has been one of two primary vehicles for myself and my wife for that entire time. I have had a spare 'correct' connector sitting on a shelf in my garage along with a spare starter for almost as long. I would have used that connector when I initially installed the TDI starter, but didn't have it on hand at the time. Since then, I've always had higher priorities than installing that connector when it has worked perfectly fine as is.

Good idea? Absolutely! Strictly necessary? Nope.

[Wildthings]

For a WBXer engine of near standard displacement and compression, I think the main advantage of a SR0425N starter over a stock 2.1L is that the SR0425N is factory new versus a rebuild. The rebuilt 2.1L starter on my 83 1/2 is now something like 15 years old and has never given a moment's problem except for a single relubing of the solenoid plunger.

FWIW, I drive through the basin and range several times a year and look for starters, alternators, and such that have the best availability and have not found any Vanagon starter that is available outside or Reno and Las Vegas.