Restoring a 65 Ghia in India

[bnam]

No, the rails were long gone, replaced by some hack job pedestals. Bought replacement rails, fabricated the cross member and used the seat frame and other measurements (including the rubber mats that were repro’d here) to get the rails located correctly.
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1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[bnam]

Over the past few weeks we continued work on the body. Reproducing the front lock carrier panel was one sub-project. It turned out quite well.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10287121&highlight=#10287121

The inner fenders had been rebuilt prior to this. Now my tinker had removed the entire nose panel as one. Since the car had been in a couple of floods, the bottom one third of the body had been badly rusted and poorly repaired in the past. We would need to replace all that. In addition, even the trunk opening had been worked on. He wanted to start with recreating the trunk opening. We then discovered that our trunk lid was also not symmetric. Luckily, we had the 68 Ghia's lid to use as reference.

Once we had the trunk opening crafted, we need to get the body/windshield opening, the cowl section, the trunk opening, the trunk lid, and the remaining nose panel all in alignment. That felt like a crazy 3d jigsaw puzzle with each element having 6 degrees of freedom. Took us several days to get it all together.

Now that it is together, we can start working on the replacing the rusted sections which include the nose grill openings and bottom third of nose and fenders.

To recreate the nose grill openings we made a die out of plate steel to try to "stamp" the sections.

That turned out well and we've grafted that to the nose. now working on the lower front section of the nose.

I still need to get measurements for locating the horn opening. Even the 68 we have does not have that opening unfortunately. So, if anyone can give me a measurement from trunk edge to top of the horn opening, that would be very helpful.

Byas
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1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[Rome]

Byas, my '64 Ghia is in the garage downstairs so I just took some measurements. The nose is perfect, never hit (!) and has the original VW emblem. I pushed back the top edge of the horn boot so that the measuring tape end hook touched the topmost part of the horn oval opening. I pulled the tape tightly along the nose ridge, and over the emblem. The distance to the front of the hood opening is 528 mm.

Next I kept the tape at the top of the horn opening, and pulled it to the left (passenger side) of the emblem so that the tape ran entirely along the body, touching the side of the emblem. That distance to the hood edge was 518 mm.

Here's a shot of the spare tire well, which might help with recreating your repro panel shapes/indents. Car color is the original L87 Pearl White. The blue object on top of the horn boot at the "bottom" of the photo is the plastic windshield washer reservoir with electric pump (from rear wiper of a Golf I), which I placed there while the spare tire was out of the car. With the spare tire in and the back side of the rim facing frontwards, the reservoir sits inside the center of the rim; held in by a bungee cord.

This shot might help you also. The triangular pieces at the outer lower rear corners of the spare tire well do not sit down flat against the well floor; they are raised up a small distance- like 2-3 mm. Likely purpose is that any water that reaches the well can flow under the triangles, then run out and down to the center of the well and out of the car via the oblong hole in the center longitudinal channel.

[bnam]

Thank you!

In your first picture on the left - there is a metal plate affixed to the trunk floor. I’ve not noticed that before. Is that related to the jack storage?
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1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[Rome]

Correct. Here's a shot of Marcdeb's '71 that shows the jack round base resting on the tip of the bottom bracket. Looks like the bracket is intended to raise the jack base above the painted weatherstrip below the bumper bracket mount.

And from mcdonaldneal's '70-

And I forgot about this shot of my own '64-

70coupyel's photo shows how the jack "could" be installed- inverted- so that the central pipe open end fits into the bottom bracket.

However, this might cause the round base to touch and rub against the paint near the top of the side panel. Marcdeb's photo also show how the lug nut breaker bar neatly fits into the central pipe when the jack is positioned "upright", though there should be the same amount of room above the bar with the jack inverted. I don;t remember if my '64 came with its original jack; I bought it back in '83 in rough condition! I since used either a bottle jack, or a scissor jack stored under the driver's side rear floor under the rear seat base.

'65 Ghia owner's manual from tS Tech section shows how the jack is intended to be stored!

Note in my '64 photo that there are no body-painted tabs on the side panel near the top to hold the headlamp wiring harness. The harness passed through a hole. Your '65 probably still has that tab-free arrangement but you'd need to search for another '65 on tS builds, or Bring a Trailer to compare. Era Vulgaris mentioned in his '66 resto thread that he used trunk nose and side panels from a '64 which did not have the tabs, then added the tabs to be correct for his year's repositioned headlamp harness.

[bnam]

Thanks! So I looked more closely at the floor of the 68 that I have been lent to use as a reference - and it too does have that plate on the floor. Will copy that.

My prior reserarch from 2018-19 indicated that the wiring up front was same as the 64 - thru a slot in the fender - which we have reproduced. No tabs up front. I don't recall if there were supposed to be any further back - along the fuel tank or further behind - but I think not.

Recreating the bottom 40% of the front nose is proving to be a big challenge. Real lucky to have another Ghia on hand. Even so, it is proving tricky getting the shape correct with curves in all directions. Made me think harder about getting a new nose - though I have little faith in the JP reproductions and their gauge is just a tad lighter.

Byas
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1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[Era Vulgaris]

'65 did still have the older routing for the headlight harness that went through the airbox via the angled slot in the trunk side panel, and then exited via a similar slot on the outer side of the airbox. '66 was the first year for the later routing that went through a grommet above the airbox and had the painted wire loom tabs.

This '65 coupe on BAT is a highly original survivor, and could be a good reference point for originality for your car.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-volkswagen-karmann-ghia-4/
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Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD

Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue

[bnam]

Still working on the nose. Got it to where it seemed almost right - but then discovered that there was bit too much of a gap between the nose and the front edge of the inner fenders - even with the rubber seal seated. The trunk opening was also 10mm longer than it should be what (compare to the ‘68 ). So we cut the nose and reshaped it a bit more and is more correct now. The bumper is from the ‘68. Need to lower the rear bolt holes a bit to get the bumper to sit level. It’s pointing down a bit now. The Bosch laser level was a new addition - to help us get things square.

But before welding up again, we decided to weld up the various brackets. Here’re some pics with the brackets tacked on to make sure that the spare would fit correctly.

As posted these pics, I looked again at the pics posted by Era Vulgaris - the manual seems to have the lifting “arm” raised up to fit over the clamp, vs how we tried it - lowered all the way.

I tried the inverted install too, but the base rested directly on the inner fender wall and that did not feel right.
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[Rome]

Good that you test-fitted the spare wheel with a radial tire. Many people here mention that the 2 metal tabs on the side panels for the tire retention won't allow a 165/80 radial tire to fit in the space. On my '64 I have an old 5.60 x 15 bias-ply tire on my spare so that it fits in the original space with the original metal tabs. If you move your tabs 1/4" to 1/2" forwards, you'll likely have space for wider tires such as 185/65 or 175/65.

[bnam]

I did fit the tire restraints about 5-8mm ahead of the stock position. The 165 fits snug with just enough play to lift out and drop in easily. If the tabs were bent a bit forward, it probably could fit a wider tire though I have no plans to do so.
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[Rome]

Byas, have you seen the magnificent '65 Ghia Coupe now on Bring a Trailer from TheGhiaGirl? It would be the ultimate reference on product and parts "correctness" for your restoration, if you download and save most of the photos. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-volkswagen-...gn_7715855

Did you ever get to meet her at any of the Kelley Park VW meets in San Jose, CA?

[bnam]

Thanks for the tip! What a beauty. No, unfortunately I never met here at Kelley park in the 2-3 times i was there.

The pics helped me get some details on the seats that I had been meaning to look for. The 65 seats have seat releases on the inboard side on both seats (right side on the left seat and left side on the right seat). Sometime later they switched that. By 68, the releases seem to be on the same side of the seat.

Also, the release knob was of the larger size. When did they move to the smaller black ones? In 66?

The BC mentions m194 - additional convex mirror on the RIGHT. I wonder if that is a mistake and really refers to the mirror on the LEFT.

I had read somewhere about a very rare right had version of those swan neck mirror with different length neck that enabled the mirror to be seen from the drivers side. I was wondering if this referred to that rare (mythical?) item.

Byas
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[Rome]

I've not heard of a long-neck swan mirror... But when I redid my '64 Cabrio in the late '80's, I relocated the original driver's mirror from the cowl to the front of the door. 1" back from the door front edge, and 1/2" down from the chrome window trim. That brought it back over a foot from the original position so that images are larger. Then I bought a 2nd mirror and mounted it on the passenger door to match the location of the driver's door. That location provided a useful view of traffic behind me, since the Ghia Cabrio has a significant blind spot with the top up.

I first experimented with placing the 2nd mirror at the passenger side cowl location to match the factory location of the driver's mirror. At that cowl location, the A-pillar is fully in the way of the mirror glass so that the mirror was useless there. A cowl-mounted mirror with a much longer neck that extended back rearwards of the A-pillar would've been useful if the mirror would end up somewhere in the front corner of the door window opening/field of vision.

Here's how the passenger side mirror looks. That's the Hudson River in the background, at a viewpoint about 1/2 hr north of me.

Your Ghia Coupe has so much better outward visibility with hardly any blind spots compared to a Cabrio, so that you could easily do without a right mirror.

[theghiagirl]

[bnam]

[bnam]

Update after a long time:

We continued work on the nose of the car. Thanks to the inputs from here we were able to get the small details inside the trunk correct.

I also got paint mixed up in the original Manila Yellow shade and we sprayed the interior of the trunk area before putting the nose back on.

Once we had the nose back on, we test fitted with all accerssories - lights, horns, grills, bumpers, windshield, etc. We discovered a couple of errors. The portion below and to the outside of the headlights was tapering in too much. We had taken a template from the Blue Ghia (which is no longer with us) - so not sure what happened. So, I did more photo research and compared with the 71 KG vert and redid both corners to get the front lower portion of the front fenders correct. This change also allowed the bumper to fit correctly. The new bumper spacer brackets had to be modified to fit these Vietnamese repro bumpers. Other than that, they fit quite well.

The other corrections we needed to do was on the parking lights which pointed canted outwards slightly. The headlights buckets needed a bit of tweaking too as one side had ovalled slightly.

The last item on the front section was the trunk lid. The very front inner section had been poorly repaired. We handcrafted a more correct replacement that reproduced the patterns correctly and also repaired rust and other poor repairs on the inner skin, and re-repaired the outer skin so that it sat with a consistent panel gap. We also needed to rework the angle of the wiper shaft mounts so that the shafts were nearly perpendicular to the surface of the windshield.

The front doors were completed and reattached with correct panel gaps.

With all that done, the front end is complete and we move on to the rear.

_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[bnam]

Items to do on the rear:

1. The deck lid. Like everything else, this has had poor prior rust repair. The bottom inner skin was from some other make of car that had been transplanted here.

After removing the outer skin, we cut off the incorrect bottom section. My tinker hand crafted a replacement using measurements from the 71KG.

Still more work to do to get the opening measurements correct.

2. Replace the panels surrounding the engine
I bought a good quality correct for the year battery panel. I discovered there are atleast 3 different variations over the years. Luckily AtelierK in France does a good reproduction. I bought the left side one and made up the right side one on our own.

The rear panel is only reproduced for later Ghias. So we are modifying the panel we bought to more accurately represent the 65 panel - this is still work in process. You can see that the two embossed areas have been flattened down, and the channels/beads which end in a flared design are being corrected by removing the flares. The two outer ones have been corrected and the inner ones are yet to be done.

This repro panel has a side panel welded on - on which the engine seal channel sits. The seal channel is lower on the 65 KG and higher on the later (I don't remember the cutover) models. So, we are crafting that inner panel and the seal channel.

_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[scarabee]

Great metalwork skills!!

[Rome]

[bnam]

Thanks for that input. I think we can still change the radius. My tinker is pretty talented. Is it about 10mm radius?

Yes, getting all the elements lined up was a huge relief. It did take some rework. This is like a huge 3D puzzle. With every point having 6 degrees to freedom.

Byas
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL