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vince1
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2003
Posts: 836
Location: Burgundy, France
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 Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 1:20 pm Post subject: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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Hi all samba members.
I'm going to build a nice little 1835 thick walled engine for a friend , going in a 1970 bay window bus, running a 8*35 beetle gearbox, currently under restoration.
He has a 1600 engine we are going to start with.
We are going to use the case, flywheel crank and rods if everything is ok.
He has some parts waiting on the shelf :
1.4 Scat rockers, a pair of 40 Dellortto DRLA carbs, a bay window stainless steel Empi side flow exhaust, AA Thick Wall "A" pistons and liners kit, CB Magnaspark ignition kit.
He wants a nice little healthy engine for weekend driving.
What heads and cam would you suggest for it ? Was thinking of an FK7 or FK42 like cam to have a good use of his 1.4:1 rockers, maybe the new DG 063 heads or should we stay on heads like Tim's Stage 1 or AA 500 Stage 1 round ported ? About 8.5 : 1 CR. 0.04" deck.
Thanks for your input as it's been a while since I made an engine, and maybe there are new camshafts choices.
_________________
my French blog https://vwpanelvan.wordpress.com/
Click here for my full pix detailed 2165 engine build with beehive valvetrain.
Sorry for my poor English, I'm a French guy ...  |
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Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7821
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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Everything too much for a bus engine imho.
Cam. If it has to be Engle, fk41. Heads, detailed stock balved, super stock at the most. I dont like sidewinders for busses, but since he has it. - At least correct the secondary collector and muffler
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6248
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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definitely 35x32 heads. keep the cam mild to keep torque down low where you want it in a heavy baywindow. Get compression up to 8.8 minimum
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drive your split. |
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vince1
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2003
Posts: 836
Location: Burgundy, France
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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About 20 years ago I had a 1776 / Tim's stage 1 / web218 / 40 DRLA 's combo in my panelvan ....
This thing had low end torque and was capable to pull easily to 6500 rpm red line. I'm a little afraid that what you propose is a little too "tame" for a weekend driver engine.
I think that 40*35 valves could be a benefit for the displacement / carbs / exhaust we want.
Also made a 1835 for a 1966 westfalia with Tim's stage 1 /40 DRLA's Steve Long V280 cam VS exhaust about 15 years ago my friend was very happy with the combo.
_________________
my French blog https://vwpanelvan.wordpress.com/
Click here for my full pix detailed 2165 engine build with beehive valvetrain.
Sorry for my poor English, I'm a French guy ... |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27652
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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You could calculate for us how much taller the planned gearing is VS factory
This is how much the displacement needs to be increased.
I could do it, but I'm too lazy
Or, I mean I'm very busy with very important matters.
i remember your double door panel van was awesome, I was jealous  |
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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 2090
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2025 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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| vince1 wrote: |
About 20 years ago I had a 1776 / Tim's stage 1 / web218 / 40 DRLA 's combo in my panelvan ....
This thing had low end torque and was capable to pull easily to 6500 rpm red line. I'm a little afraid that what you propose is a little too "tame" for a weekend driver engine.
I think that 40*35 valves could be a benefit for the displacement / carbs / exhaust we want.
Also made a 1835 for a 1966 westfalia with Tim's stage 1 /40 DRLA's Steve Long V280 cam VS exhaust about 15 years ago my friend was very happy with the combo. |
If that's what you like build another one just like it. 
.
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33023
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2025 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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| vince1 wrote: |
| I'm going to build a nice little 1835 thick walled engine for a friend , going in a 1970 bay window bus |
For sure I'd use a doghouse fan shroud, doghouse cooler, fan, etc., in a 1970 bus.
I run thin-wall 1835cc DP in Arizona but in a Beetle and use an external oil cooler. 1835cc in a 1970 bus designed for 1600cc single port engine does not seem a good match for warm weather and highway driving.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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mikedjames
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012
Posts: 3301
Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2025 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| vince1 wrote: |
| I'm going to build a nice little 1835 thick walled engine for a friend , going in a 1970 bay window bus |
For sure I'd use a doghouse fan shroud, doghouse cooler, fan, etc., in a 1970 bus.
I run thin-wall 1835cc DP in Arizona but in a Beetle and use an external oil cooler. 1835cc in a 1970 bus designed for 1600cc single port engine does not seem a good match for warm weather and highway driving. |
I agree an oil cooler is also a good idea. Seeing as even with a doghouse cooler and a 1641 stockish DP engine in a bus going just the right speed up hill, still in the power band, you can fry it.
Beetles use full power for a few tens of seconds then drop back. A bus keeps hammering on.
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Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7821
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2025 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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| vince1 wrote: |
About 20 years ago I had a 1776 / Tim's stage 1 / web218 / 40 DRLA 's combo in my panelvan ....
This thing had low end torque and was capable to pull easily to 6500 rpm red line. I'm a little afraid that what you propose is a little too "tame" for a weekend driver engine.
I think that 40*35 valves could be a benefit for the displacement / carbs / exhaust we want.
Also made a 1835 for a 1966 westfalia with Tim's stage 1 /40 DRLA's Steve Long V280 cam VS exhaust about 15 years ago my friend was very happy with the combo. |
Well, if they want that behavior then thats the way to go.
I can only say that around here it happens quite often that i get involved in detuning peoples bus engines because they do not pull torque where they need it. In fact I am detuning a 115 hp Kadron powered 1835 right now. 218/119 cam, ported stock heads, 9-1 CR EL homebuilt muffler. Reason is that the owner has a tendency to drive too fast because it runs so well at 120 km. but it also runs well at 150 kmh. and at 80 kmh it is juust on the underside of the torque band. At the same time he will now go from an 8/35 to an 8/33 transmission and I will reduce the cam with 12 degrees@ 0,050" It will probably cost him 10-12 hp, but move the torque band 400 rpm downwards, but it will be more suitable for a bus, - at least for his wishes.
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vince1
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2003
Posts: 836
Location: Burgundy, France
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2025 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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| Dusty1 wrote: |
| vince1 wrote: |
About 20 years ago I had a 1776 / Tim's stage 1 / web218 / 40 DRLA 's combo in my panelvan ....
This thing had low end torque and was capable to pull easily to 6500 rpm red line. I'm a little afraid that what you propose is a little too "tame" for a weekend driver engine.
I think that 40*35 valves could be a benefit for the displacement / carbs / exhaust we want.
Also made a 1835 for a 1966 westfalia with Tim's stage 1 /40 DRLA's Steve Long V280 cam VS exhaust about 15 years ago my friend was very happy with the combo. |
If that's what you like build another one just like it.
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Yes, I have to chose a similar cam like the web 218, but taking the advantage of 1.4:1 rockers with gentle lifter lift, FK7 seems nice for it.
_________________
my French blog https://vwpanelvan.wordpress.com/
Click here for my full pix detailed 2165 engine build with beehive valvetrain.
Sorry for my poor English, I'm a French guy ... |
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94touring
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2020
Posts: 478
Location: Tulsa - OK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2025 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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| Occasionally when these topics come up I'll plug the different options into the dub dyno app for a rough idea of possibilities. The fk41 makes better torque down low with a little sacrifice to HP way up top in comparison to the fk7 on 1.4 lifters. |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3639
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2025 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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Something that would give a touch more torque, a touch less lift then the fk7, and made for 1.4's would be the CB 2236. https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2236.htm
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 6316
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2025 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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I have recently gone through the 1835 in my 65 bus....
Thick wall cylinders
Tims super stock heads cut for 8.5:1 compression
Dual 36 DRLA
It's got an old crane 282 cam thats really mild
Valve Setting; Intake 0.004" Exhaust 0.006" cold
Total lift @ cam 0.0360" @valve 0.407" Rocker arm ratio 1.13:1
Advertised Duration 282* Duration @0.050" 240*
Runs cool and pulls like it's a bigger engine.
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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vince1
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2003
Posts: 836
Location: Burgundy, France
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2025 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine !now 1968! |
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The engine is still in plans, and plans have slightly changed. Since the stock case and crank were out of tolerance, we went to an new aluminum case and a 74 mm crank as they were at a very good price and the crank match with the "A" pistons my friend already has.
We went for a non stroker case as we won't have to modify the fan shroud and still have enough material for stroker clearance.
The 74 crank and A pistons will make an easy Deck Height setup using shims.
Are the FK7 of FK42 cams now more suited for this future 1968cc engine ? Or could you suggest us a cam to go with 1.4 Scat rockers as we already have them ...
IMO, the FK7 should make a nice and reliable engine without much valve train noise.
We aim for 8.5:1 CR with 0.04" deck and 59 cc heads (corrected Panchitos, AA 500 D port or DG063 40*35 heads are in the plans)
_________________
my French blog https://vwpanelvan.wordpress.com/
Click here for my full pix detailed 2165 engine build with beehive valvetrain.
Sorry for my poor English, I'm a French guy ... |
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Brian_e 
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 3959
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2025 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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I have done a couple 1968cc bus engines with a web 218, stock rockers, 9.0:1, and my 37x32 aa 500 heads. They always work good for a little bus engine.
If you must run 1.4's, I would do the fk7. And if you must do 40x35, I would do the panchito because to their very small port volume.
Brian
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So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
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Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6248
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2025 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Advices for a 1835 thick walled bay window engine |
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| Brian_e wrote: |
I have done a couple 1968cc bus engines with a web 218, stock rockers, 9.0:1, and my 37x32 aa 500 heads. They always work good for a little bus engine.
If you must run 1.4's, I would do the fk7. And if you must do 40x35, I would do the panchito because to their very small port volume.
Brian |
one of these engines was for me, for a customer of mine, and the engine was VERY impressive in a 1962 23 window.
I would personally be inclined to 37x33 heads, or even very good 35x32 heads, but corrected panchitos will probably be very nice as well.
Brian built me another 1968cc with hand ported 35x32 heads for another customer of mine, with a slightly milder cam (I think it was a CB 2239?) and it was also very impressive.
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