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orbeamike
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Joined: May 16, 2017
Posts: 152
Location: California
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 Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:57 pm Post subject: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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Just want to know for those who have installed a Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger for the Lithium house battery, how do you set your parameters for the engine detection? The default parameters as shown are too high for our alternators. |
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TheOneTrueQuux
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Joined: May 26, 2021
Posts: 452
Location: Winona, MN
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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| No direct experience here, but have you tried simply reducing the voltage in small steps until it works? |
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orbeamike
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2017
Posts: 152
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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| I ran the van today while monitoring the alternator voltage at the Victron input using the Victron bluetooth app: On start up the alternator voltage goes up to 14.4V but quicky drops down to 13.7V, then down to 13.5 while engine is idling. The Victron has "smart alternaor" setting which has delay start voltage at 13.3V and shut down voltage at 13.1V. I think this is more in line with how our alternator operates, I will use these settings for a while and see how it charges my new lithium battery. |
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shirk
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Joined: September 29, 2010
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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Good info.
Doing research on upgrading to a lithium house battery I came across info that the VR6 alternator can be swapped out for a 220a Touareg unit.
http://www.cavevan.com/forum/index.php?topic=24.0
More amps more better. |
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orbeamike
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2017
Posts: 152
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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You need to be careful with your charger selection, the stock wiring only supports up to 30A charging. So unless you are ready to run brand new wiring to support higher current charging I think 220A alternator is overkill, it just adds more resistance and higher fuel consumption. |
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MrPulldown
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Joined: September 08, 2020
Posts: 649
Location: Truckee
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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| orbeamike wrote: |
| I ran the van today while monitoring the alternator voltage at the Victron input using the Victron bluetooth app: On start up the alternator voltage goes up to 14.4V but quicky drops down to 13.7V, then down to 13.5 while engine is idling. The Victron has "smart alternaor" setting which has delay start voltage at 13.3V and shut down voltage at 13.1V. I think this is more in line with how our alternator operates, I will use these settings for a while and see how it charges my new lithium battery. |
Now what is your idle voltage with the AC on and outside temp 100+, after running for several hours.
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2002 EVC |
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orbeamike
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2017
Posts: 152
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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| MrPulldown wrote: |
| orbeamike wrote: |
| I ran the van today while monitoring the alternator voltage at the Victron input using the Victron bluetooth app: On start up the alternator voltage goes up to 14.4V but quicky drops down to 13.7V, then down to 13.5 while engine is idling. The Victron has "smart alternaor" setting which has delay start voltage at 13.3V and shut down voltage at 13.1V. I think this is more in line with how our alternator operates, I will use these settings for a while and see how it charges my new lithium battery. |
Now what is your idle voltage with the AC on and outside temp 100+, after running for several hours. |
I will not know that answer till Summer, stay tuned. Ideally I like to stick to the coast during the Summer so I hope never to find out. |
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TheOneTrueQuux
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Joined: May 26, 2021
Posts: 452
Location: Winona, MN
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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| orbeamike wrote: |
You need to be careful with your charger selection, the stock wiring only supports up to 30A charging. So unless you are ready to run brand new wiring to support higher current charging I think 220A alternator is overkill, it just adds more resistance and higher fuel consumption. |
The 220A alternator is overkill, however it'll only draw more shaft power when it's actually producing more power, it should not affect fuel consumption if it's used the same way as the original one.
Additionally, because it's designed for higher peak loads, it'll likely last longer in this lower duty cycle usage, and will maintain better output at idle vs the stock unit. I wouldn't replace a functioning unit with this one, but when the old alternator dies it could be worthwhile. |
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TheOneTrueQuux
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Joined: May 26, 2021
Posts: 452
Location: Winona, MN
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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| orbeamike wrote: |
| I ran the van today while monitoring the alternator voltage at the Victron input using the Victron bluetooth app: On start up the alternator voltage goes up to 14.4V but quicky drops down to 13.7V, then down to 13.5 while engine is idling. The Victron has "smart alternaor" setting which has delay start voltage at 13.3V and shut down voltage at 13.1V. I think this is more in line with how our alternator operates, I will use these settings for a while and see how it charges my new lithium battery. |
You could also run a trigger wire, then it would run anytime the key was on. |
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goffro
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Joined: May 08, 2018
Posts: 24
Location: Lake Tahoe, California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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| orbeamike wrote: |
| I will use these settings for a while and see how it charges my new lithium battery. |
I'm curious how you ended up configuring your charger. I purchased exactly the same charger (Victron Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC Charger Isolated 12/12-30 360-watt).
| TheOneTrueQuux wrote: |
| You could also run a trigger wire, then it would run anytime the key was on. |
I'm at a point in the installation where it would be easy to run a turn-on lead back to where the Orion-Tr would live (under the rear bench seat), probably I'd just tap the existing yellow turn-on lead that is (was) connected to the stock battery isolator solenoid under the hood.
My only concern with utilizing this turn-on lead to switch the Orion-Tr on (and off) is the scenario where you get in the van, turn the key two clicks but do not start the engine. In this case, the yellow turn-on lead in question is hot and so the Orion-Tr would begin charging, but since the engine isn't actually running, it would be pulling from the starter battery and not the alternator.
Obviously it's kind of an unusual scenario to have the key in the "on" position without actually starting the van... but it can happen. Someone wants to play the radio at camp, and isn't aware of the the charger situation, etc.
So I'd prefer to utilize the Orion-Tr's programmable voltage parameters to trigger charging, than to use a turn-on lead, because the former actually seems more fool-proof. |
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orbeamike
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2017
Posts: 152
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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| goffro wrote: |
| orbeamike wrote: |
| I will use these settings for a while and see how it charges my new lithium battery. |
I'm curious how you ended up configuring your charger. I purchased exactly the same charger (Victron Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC Charger Isolated 12/12-30 360-watt).
| TheOneTrueQuux wrote: |
| You could also run a trigger wire, then it would run anytime the key was on. |
I'm at a point in the installation where it would be easy to run a turn-on lead back to where the Orion-Tr would live (under the rear bench seat), probably I'd just tap the existing yellow turn-on lead that is (was) connected to the stock battery isolator solenoid under the hood.
My only concern with utilizing this turn-on lead to switch the Orion-Tr on (and off) is the scenario where you get in the van, turn the key two clicks but do not start the engine. In this case, the yellow turn-on lead in question is hot and so the Orion-Tr would begin charging, but since the engine isn't actually running, it would be pulling from the starter battery and not the alternator.
Obviously it's kind of an unusual scenario to have the key in the "on" position without actually starting the van... but it can happen. Someone wants to play the radio at camp, and isn't aware of the the charger situation, etc.
So I'd prefer to utilize the Orion-Tr's programmable voltage parameters to trigger charging, than to use a turn-on lead, because the former actually seems more fool-proof. |
Your assumption is incorrect, when you turn on the ignition the Orion does not begin charging the house battery immediately. The user parameters in the engine shutdown detection keep the 2 batteries in isolation till the alternator voltage is above a threshold. By turning on the ignition your starter battery should still sit below the shutdown voltage, thus keep the 2 batteries in isolation.
My settings are:
alternator type: user defined
Start voltage:13.8V
delay start voltage:13.5V
delayed start voltage delay: 120S
shutdown voltage: 13V
Victron recommends that the input voltage is always connected to the starter battery so the bluetooth is enabled.
In my setup I bypassed the isolator and have the + terminal connected to the input of the DC/DC charger
I also have the input lockout voltage set at 12.5V and unlock at 13.1V |
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goffro
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2018
Posts: 24
Location: Lake Tahoe, California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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| orbeamike wrote: |
| Your assumption is incorrect, when you turn on the ignition the Orion does not begin charging the house battery immediately. The user parameters in the engine shutdown detection keep the 2 batteries in isolation till the alternator voltage is above a threshold. |
I understand that is true only if you leave the "Engine Shutdown Detection" enabled.
I had assumed that if one runs an ignition-switched turn-on/turn-off lead to the Orion-Tr, as shown in H Pin Wiring, one would also go into the VictronConnect settings and disable "Engine Shutdown Detection".
So I think we are thinking of slighlty different scenarios.
In the scenario in my head, the idea being that a remote turn-on/turn-off lead is necessary because one is not able to empirically determine a start voltage, a delayed-start voltage, the delayed-start voltage delay, and a shutdown voltage that work consistently and correctly across all possible operating situations all of the time. Perhaps such parameters simply do not exist. As one poster above said, do the parameters work when it's 100F and you have the AC running? And so forth. Therefore, one simply uses the ignition to switch the charger functionality on and off, and eliminates the quest for the perfect engine shutdown detection parameters. I'm being dramatic for the sake of example: I'm sure the parameters work fine, the alternator isn't really that complicated.
In this case of the ignition switching the charger on/off, the big downside is that one could accidentally leave the key in the "ON" position without the engine running (to listen to the radio for example), and this would cause the Orion-Tr to engage in Charge Mode perhaps unknowingly and drain down the starter battery, in haste.
Then I suppose there are hybrid setups where one might use both the remote turn-on/turn-off lead AND enable "engine shutdown detection" parameters to really fine tune. I think this might be the scenario you had in mind? To me that is a lot of complexity that can go wrong! But these little Victrons are nice in that they are abundantly configurable. Like, you can pull it out and use it in your boat and just tweak some settings and it will work with aplomb. I really like that.
Anyway, thank you for the voltage settings, I will try them out and update if I ever run into any issues. I presume you did not have any issues with these settings? That is very helpful and I belive will allow me to keep things simple by precluding the need to run the yellow ignition turn-on lead back to the charger's L-H Remote input. That's one less wire in what is otherwise a sea of connectors and loom behind the dash and fridge. |
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orbeamike
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Joined: May 16, 2017
Posts: 152
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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Yes the engine shut down detection is enabled in my system, so that will prevent the engine battery from charging the house battery when the alternator is not running.
In your scenario when the alternator is being heavily taxed due to AC and temperature, the user defined alternator settings will automatically turn off the charger. In my case the shut down voltage is at 13.0V, and the alternator will not resume charging after the voltage has risen to above 13.5V continuously for over 120 seconds.
In stop and go traffic and outside temp is warm I notice the Victron automatically disables charging to my house battery due to the alternator output lower than my setting. I still don't think a remote on/off is unnecessary, but it's your system. |
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orbeamike
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2017
Posts: 152
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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My setup with the remote switch connected
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1961tbird
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Joined: July 21, 2018
Posts: 320
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2025 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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I recently purchased the Victron DC/DC charger along with a 100 Ah lithium battery for my 95 Eurovan.
Any update/recommendations for the settings on the engine shut down values? |
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krusovice
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Joined: October 12, 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Duluth, MN
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2025 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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Sorry. Responded in wrong thread.
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1984 Vanagon 1.9/4 speed
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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bigfoot_ev
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Joined: March 13, 2018
Posts: 286
Location: P.NW
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2025 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Victron Orion Tr Smart DC to DC charger engine detection setting |
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| 1961tbird wrote: |
I recently purchased the Victron DC/DC charger along with a 100 Ah lithium battery for my 95 Eurovan.
Any update/recommendations for the settings on the engine shut down values? |
Just some background, I have a Weekender and I have upgraded the wire from the start battery to the Orion Tr. My alternator was replaced about 10 yrs ago and is the 120A version.
I have no problems using the default settings. I just drove my van and when idling and hot I register 14.0V - 14.15V. You should monitor voltages at the Orion, via the app, to see how your charging system is functioning and make adjustments as necessary. Also, there is the H pin input which could be wired to ACC so the key must be turned in order for the Orion to charge. It's another option to consider.
I use both the H pin and Engine Shutdown Detection. But, my H pin input is from the BMV battery monitor. The BMV will only allow the Orion to charge based on a state of charge threshold.
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2003 Westfalia Weekender, AXK, 01P |
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