Intermittent No Crank-1972 bus

[Tweed2863]

Hello, I am looking for some advice and direction. I have a 1972 Type 2 bus and I am having intermittent no crank issues. Here is what I have, it's a 1700 engine but I switched out the dual carbs for a single carb progressive. I recently had the engine pulled, some gaskets replaced and also the whole clutch replaced. I did have a no start issue once before this work, but a quick jump started it. The bus ran fine after this work for a while, but I went to start it and got no crank, completely dead. I did jump it and got the charging system checked at a local parts store. Everything seemed to be working. The no crank happened again and I figured it could be the starter. I did the old screwdriver trick on the starter and it moved. I put the key in and it started right up. So I changed the starter. It started up after I changed the starter and ran great for about 2 weeks. Went outside to drive it and once again, no crank. I had a worn negative a battery cable and I changed that and it fired right up. Took it for a long drive. came home and turned it off. Tried to start it again and once again, no crank. I'm not great with electrical stuff, but any suggestions on what I could be missing??
Thank you for any help or suggestions.

[Xevin]

For starters

How clean is this ground strap? And do you have a hot/hard start relay?

[Tweed2863]

[lil-jinx]

no crank ,does it do anything when you turn the key to the start position,is power getting to the start terminal on the starter when the key is turned,you said you used a screw driver to cross the starter terminals,which terminals.if you crossed the two big terminals ,the starter should spin but not engage the flywheel,if you cross the battery terminal and the start terminal it should crank the engine.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy sold dec 2024

1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[Xevin]

Yes, the one in the picture on the gear box. Make sure it’s shiny and clean.
Not asking you to install a hot start rely to fix. Just asking for more information.
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Keep on Busin'

[SGKent]

tap the solenoid next time it happens and see if it works. If so you need to service it.
_________________
Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).

George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."

Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"

[Tweed2863]

[Tweed2863]

[Tweed2863]

[dodger tom]

so the new starter came with a new solenoid?

sorry if i missed it, did you clean the other battery cable and both battery posts?

don’t discount the ignition switch as a possible culprit.

also, could be the battery is on its last legs, er, if batteries had legs.
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1978 Champaign Edition 2 Westfalia
Would never find the time to keep up another classic air-cooled.

[SGKent]

most rebuilt starters come with the old solenoid. I do agree that it can be a battery cable, or connection to the battery or even the starter switch, intermittent solenoids are really common on air cooled VW's. Like I've helped people stranded in gasoline stations with the same issue more than once.

here is my classic troubleshooting photo on how to test where the problem is.

Green
White
Yellow

But like others super correctly suggested, I would check the cables and ground. Cables can rot on the inside and grounds can get corrosion too. Even batteries can have intermittent internal connections. Good Luck.

_________________
Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).

George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."

Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"

[Tweed2863]

[lil-jinx]

you say you have power to the start terminal (the small blade terminal)when you turn the key ,to test that circuit ,you can remove the wire from the terminal and connect alight to it ,a head light would be good,then turn the key,that light should shine bright,if the circuit is good ,if the circuit is weak the light will be dim or not light at all.a wire with just one strand wil show 12 volts with a volt meter ,but it won’t carry a load .jumping the wire as i the picture that SGKent posted will bypass the ignition circuit,if it starts every time by jumping it at the starter ,then i would suspect the ignition circuit,if it don’t start when jumped it can be lack of battery pos power ,lack of ground or a faulty starter/solinoid.
dont over complicate electric circuits.
most circuits have just 4 components ,the pos battery wire the ground wire,a switch and the load,it’s like plumbing with pump pressure (battery) valves (switch) pipes(wires) and load,(container to receive the flow,and a drain(ground circuit)
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy sold dec 2024

1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[Tweed2863]

[Tweed2863]

[lil-jinx]

there is a bushing that the starter shaft goes onto,i’m not sure but if it’s beat out it might cause this problem.as for the ground at the trans,many bus owners put a ground cable direct from the battery to the engine,many use the starter mount bolt for this ,my ground goes from the battery to the body then to the engine,the trans ground becomes redundant with this set up.
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy sold dec 2024

1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[SGKent]

leave the hard start relay off the bus until you solve the issue or you are just adding one more variable to cause you issues. Fix the problem first.
_________________
Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).

George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."

Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"

[Tweed2863]

Well, I was able to get under the bus for a little bit before the rain and wind started. I did some of the easier suggestions due to the weather. I cleaned the ground strap, battery terminals and the positive cable end connected to the starter. It fired right up! I hope these were the issue and they are solved, but we all know how these VW's are. HA
I appreciate everyone's help and suggestions. I know this has been an intermittent issue and it may arise again. Fingers crossed.

Thank you everyone!!

[Xevin]

[airschooled]

1972 buses have a nonstandard (terrible) battery ground strap location in the engine compartment. That’s the first place I would clean and tighten the fasteners.

Robbie
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