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KTPhil 
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Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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 Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 9:32 am Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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I have talked about this, but not yet done it...
I want to make up an "emergency TS" which is a fixed resistor representing the warm R value, compete with a connector and a grounding lug, so that should the TS or wiring fail, I can limp home with a reasonable A/F ratio.
I just haven't found the right resistor yet.
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airschooled
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 9:49 am Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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It’s called ground. You ground the lead and drive to a safe space to swap the TS2.
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KTPhil
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Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 9:59 am Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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I hate replacing that thing on a cool engine in the garage. On the side of the road, hot? Yikes!
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
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Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 11:19 am Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
I have talked about this, but not yet done it...
I want to make up an "emergency TS" which is a fixed resistor representing the warm R value, compete with a connector and a grounding lug, so that should the TS or wiring fail, I can limp home with a reasonable A/F ratio.
I just haven't found the right resistor yet. |
I was going to suggest this yesterday but you beat me to it. I actually did this many years ago. It started out as finding a ballast resistor for my 412. In hotweather in Oklahoma and Texas on long highway drives its very common for the TS-2 to drop all the way down to its lowest which is about 75 ohms.
Being that low is not really an issue for running on a lot of D-jet systems. Some of the ECU's do not "see" or process below something like 150 ohms.
The problem is that once you are down that low in resistance and then pull over for a burger or something for about 30 minutes....everything but the heads cools off enough to need something like 200 to 250 ohms. The TS-2 is still down at minimum because of heat soak and you can get a hot start issue.
So yes...agree with both things said here:
1. Yes...just to get you off the side of the road if it craps out...you can ground the TS-2 wire. It will be at its leanest...but it will run.
2. If you know what your engine normally runs at when fullty warmed up in X weather....just keep a resistor with a short wire pigtail to plug in with your minimum fully warmed up dialed in already.
This type of ballast resistor is very common in D-jet because a great many of them run too lean with the stock TS-2. There was even a factory TSB for type 3 about adding a 200 ohms in-line ballast resistor.
I spent about $6 for a 0-2500 ohms ceramic variable ressitor with a little screw adjustment.
Here is a 0-500 ohms variable resistor. There are a zillion designs and shapes all over the internet. This one is 69 cents. Just make a little breadboard for it and put it inside of an old relay housing with the wires alread soldered on. Put a screw on male tab on the case somewhere close just to have it ready if the TS-2 fails. Throw the relay cube in the glovebox and you are read to go.
https://www.westfloridacomponents.com/P187PD/500+o...1-501.html
Ray |
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Xevin
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 11:44 am Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| I hate replacing that thing on a cool engine in the garage. On the side of the road, hot? Yikes! |
You and Ray must be talking about replacing a TS2 on a Type 4 and Type 3 car. In a Type 2 bus with L-Jet the most time consuming part of replacing a TS2 on the side of the road is unpacking the camp gear. I don’t see the the advantage of adding a home brew “Emergency TS2”. Have you had to do this in a Bay window bus frequently?
This whole process took 15 minutes to replace the broken TS2.
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KTPhil
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 11:48 am Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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Is there a wattage rating we should consider a minimum for a fixed resistor?
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67rustavenger
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 11:57 am Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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| Xevin wrote: |
You and Ray must be talking about replacing a TS2 on a Type 4 and Type 3 car. In a Type 2 bus with L-Jet the most time consuming part of replacing a TS2 on the side of the road is unpacking the camp gear. I don’t see the the advantage of adding a home brew “Emergency TS2”. Have you had to do this in a Bay window bus frequently?
This whole process took 15 minutes to replace the broken TS2. |
That is a familiar seen for us last summer except, it would be my EV and me sitting in the drivers seat scanning the ECU looking for the fault code that caused the damn thing to shut off for no good reason. 
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airschooled
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Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| I hate replacing that thing on a cool engine in the garage. On the side of the road, hot? Yikes! |
Safe includes temperature. 
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
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Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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| Xevin wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| I hate replacing that thing on a cool engine in the garage. On the side of the road, hot? Yikes! |
You and Ray must be talking about replacing a TS2 on a Type 4 and Type 3 car. In a Type 2 bus with L-Jet the most time consuming part of replacing a TS2 on the side of the road is unpacking the camp gear. I don’t see the the advantage of adding a home brew “Emergency TS2”. Have you had to do this in a Bay window bus frequently?
This whole process took 15 minutes to replace the broken TS2. |
It's not any different for a type 4 car than any other type 4 engine. We have enough room. Just need a slotted socket. The only differen e on type 3 is no room to work.
Ray |
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KTPhil
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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Yep, that's why I am preferring the "resistor substitute." The connector is easily accessible, even if the sensor itself is not. I have a Type 3.
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Xevin
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| Yep, that's why I am preferring the "resistor substitute." The connector is easily accessible, even if the sensor itself is not. I have a Type 3. |
Gotcha. So more of a type 3 car issue than a Bay window bus issue. I was confused. I’m Not familiar with type 3 cars.
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
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Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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| Xevin wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| Yep, that's why I am preferring the "resistor substitute." The connector is easily accessible, even if the sensor itself is not. I have a Type 3. |
Gotcha. So more of a type 3 car issue than a Bay window bus issue. I was confused. I’m Not familiar with type 3 cars. |
Well, on type 3, the TS-2 is kind on on the forward side of the intake manifold runner so if you have to change it, you do it by feel. Once you have to do it a couple of times and if you have a socket for it (made my own) and a medium extension and a ratchet ....its simple.
On the type 4 cars, its the same set up as a 1.7L in a bus....about the same amount of room. Same sheet metal next to the engine so they TS-2 is down in a well/hole. Again, if you have a proper socket for this its pretty easy. Easier than the type 3.
But the interesting oddity its the 1.8L on both 412 and buses. They moved the location of the TS-2 from a thread cast boss.....to a drilled and tapped hole in the fin. So it moved upward and is easier to reach and see.
I can't for the life of me remember what the 2.0L had. Ray |
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Xevin
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Xevin wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| Yep, that's why I am preferring the "resistor substitute." The connector is easily accessible, even if the sensor itself is not. I have a Type 3. |
Gotcha. So more of a type 3 car issue than a Bay window bus issue. I was confused. I’m Not familiar with type 3 cars. |
Well, on type 3, the TS-2 is kind on on the forward side of the intake manifold runner so if you have to change it, you do it by feel. Once you have to do it a couple of times and if you have a socket for it (made my own) and a medium extension and a ratchet ....its simple.
On the type 4 cars, its the same set up as a 1.7L in a bus....about the same amount of room. Same sheet metal next to the engine so they TS-2 is down in a well/hole. Again, if you have a proper socket for this its pretty easy. Easier than the type 3.
But the interesting oddity its the 1.8L on both 412 and buses. They moved the location of the TS-2 from a thread cast boss.....to a drilled and tapped hole in the fin. So it moved upward and is easier to reach and see.
I can't for the life of me remember what the 2.0L had. Ray |
Ray, you have my head spinning. What Type 2 bay window buses with 1.7L or 1.8L engines used a TS2 with electronic fuel injection equipped with L-jet? Was this a bus designed for markets outside the US/Canada market?
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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| Damn that Xevin... |
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| I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
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Bnanwel
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Joined: November 10, 2022
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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If you haven’t drilled and tapped the tin screw next to #3 intake for the TS2, you should. It’s a much easier spot. My ‘72 doesn’t have a hatch and i could definitely change it hot. I’ve hotswapped between the one inside the tin and the Vespa sensor outside to test function. The original location would suck when hot.
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Xevin
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Posts: 8986
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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| Bnanwel wrote: |
| If you haven’t drilled and tapped the tin screw next to #3 intake for the TS2, you should. It’s a much easier spot. My ‘72 doesn’t have a hatch and i could definitely change it hot. I’ve hotswapped between the one inside the tin and the Vespa sensor outside to test function. The original location would suck when hot. |
Your 72 bus/kombi with a German factory spec engine (72 model year) has a TS2? I gotta check that out.
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
| SGKent wrote: |
| My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
Last edited by Xevin on Wed Nov 12, 2025 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23459
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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| Xevin wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Xevin wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| Yep, that's why I am preferring the "resistor substitute." The connector is easily accessible, even if the sensor itself is not. I have a Type 3. |
Gotcha. So more of a type 3 car issue than a Bay window bus issue. I was confused. I’m Not familiar with type 3 cars. |
Well, on type 3, the TS-2 is kind on on the forward side of the intake manifold runner so if you have to change it, you do it by feel. Once you have to do it a couple of times and if you have a socket for it (made my own) and a medium extension and a ratchet ....its simple.
On the type 4 cars, its the same set up as a 1.7L in a bus....about the same amount of room. Same sheet metal next to the engine so they TS-2 is down in a well/hole. Again, if you have a proper socket for this its pretty easy. Easier than the type 3.
But the interesting oddity its the 1.8L on both 412 and buses. They moved the location of the TS-2 from a thread cast boss.....to a drilled and tapped hole in the fin. So it moved upward and is easier to reach and see.
I can't for the life of me remember what the 2.0L had. Ray |
Ray, you have my head spinning. What Type 2 bay window buses with 1.7L or 1.8L engines used a TS2 with electronic fuel injection equipped with L-jet? Was this a bus designed for markets outside the US/Canada market? |
All bus with L-jet use a TS-2. All 1.7L bus came with carbs. Some of the earliest 1.8L came with carbs. The rest, 1.8L and 2.0L came with L-jet.
You may have missed the point Xevin made that from yours and my point of view that we must be thinking about the type 4 cars (1.7L and 1.8L) and type 3 cars with D-jet....with regard to level of difficulty replacing the TS-2.
I was commenting that no....there is no real difference in the level of difficulty of changing the TS-2 in any of the type 4 engines regardless of which model they are in....and not just speaking of bus only. There is some difficulty changing the TS-2 in type 3 cars as I noted.
Ray |
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Bnanwel
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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| Xevin wrote: |
| Bnanwel wrote: |
| If you haven’t drilled and tapped the tin screw next to #3 intake for the TS2, you should. It’s a much easier spot. My ‘72 doesn’t have a hatch and i could definitely change it hot. I’ve hotswapped between the one inside the tin and the Vespa sensor outside to test function. The original location would suck when hot. |
Your 72 bus/kombi with a German factory spec engine (72 model year) has a TS2? I gotta check that out. |
Not factory spec: EA code(411?) 1.7 in a ‘72 Deluxe with retrofit ljet (except for Inj Rehab rails and injectors/awesome) from a ‘78 bus? It works great!
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Xevin
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Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 8986
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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| Bnanwel wrote: |
| Xevin wrote: |
| Bnanwel wrote: |
| If you haven’t drilled and tapped the tin screw next to #3 intake for the TS2, you should. It’s a much easier spot. My ‘72 doesn’t have a hatch and i could definitely change it hot. I’ve hotswapped between the one inside the tin and the Vespa sensor outside to test function. The original location would suck when hot. |
Your 72 bus/kombi with a German factory spec engine (72 model year) has a TS2? I gotta check that out. |
Not factory spec: EA code(411?) 1.7 in a ‘72 Deluxe with retrofit ljet (except for Inj Rehab rails and injectors/awesome) from a ‘78 bus? It works great!
|
Nice!!! Thanks for letting other Fuel injection bus drivers that use a TS2 know what you have going on. Very cool.
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
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| I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
| SGKent wrote: |
| My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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Xevin
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Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 8986
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
I have talked about this, but not yet done it...
I want to make up an "emergency TS" which is a fixed resistor representing the warm R value, compete with a connector and a grounding lug, so that should the TS or wiring fail, I can limp home with a reasonable A/F ratio.
I just haven't found the right resistor yet. |
I was going to suggest this yesterday but you beat me to it. I actually did this many years ago. It started out as finding a ballast resistor for my 412. In hotweather in Oklahoma and Texas on long highway drives its very common for the TS-2 to drop all the way down to its lowest which is about 75 ohms.
Being that low is not really an issue for running on a lot of D-jet systems. Some of the ECU's do not "see" or process below something like 150 ohms.
The problem is that once you are down that low in resistance and then pull over for a burger or something for about 30 minutes....everything but the heads cools off enough to need something like 200 to 250 ohms. The TS-2 is still down at minimum because of heat soak and you can get a hot start issue.
So yes...agree with both things said here:
1. Yes...just to get you off the side of the road if it craps out...you can ground the TS-2 wire. It will be at its leanest...but it will run.
2. If you know what your engine normally runs at when fullty warmed up in X weather....just keep a resistor with a short wire pigtail to plug in with your minimum fully warmed up dialed in already.
This type of ballast resistor is very common in D-jet because a great many of them run too lean with the stock TS-2. There was even a factory TSB for type 3 about adding a 200 ohms in-line ballast resistor.
I spent about $6 for a 0-2500 ohms ceramic variable ressitor with a little screw adjustment.
Here is a 0-500 ohms variable resistor. There are a zillion designs and shapes all over the internet. This one is 69 cents. Just make a little breadboard for it and put it inside of an old relay housing with the wires alread soldered on. Put a screw on male tab on the case somewhere close just to have it ready if the TS-2 fails. Throw the relay cube in the glovebox and you are read to go.
https://www.westfloridacomponents.com/P187PD/500+o...1-501.html
Ray |
Let’s keep this question to Type 2 fuel injection buses with L-Jet.
Is it easier to install KTPhil and Rays “emergency TS” or just grab the spare in the drawer on the side of the road? Might be some confusion on the type 3 and type 2 bus accessibility. This is a Bay window forum after all but if Ray and KTPhill have a better way for a bus, i’m in.
I just carry this.
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
| SGKent wrote: |
| My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23459
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2025 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: What could cause a TS II to fail prematurely? |
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| Quote: |
Let’s keep this question to Type 2 fuel injection buses with L-Jet.
Is it easier to install KTPhil and Rays “emergency TS” or just grab the spare in the drawer on the side of the road? Might be some confusion on the type 3 and type 2 bus accessibility. This is a Bay window forum after all but if Ray and KTPhill have a better way for a bus, i’m in.
I just carry this. |
That is the point I am trying to make.
There is "0" difference in TS-2 replacement and fitting on any type 4 engine whether its in a bus or a 411/412/914 car or whether it runs D-jet or L-jet.
Its the same part # for both D-jet and L-jet.
You have even more room inside of the bus than I do in my 412...if room to work is the issue one is worried about. We have the same issues with TS-2 going out and poor quality.
In the 914 and 412 cars (and for that matter especially type 3 because the factory and dealers applied ballast resistors to TS-2)....we have been using fixed or variable resistors swapped in temporarily in place of TS-2 or connected in-line to the TS-2 and even the potentiometer trick to:
A. get us off the side of the road
B. To get around the poor low resistance/hot response of the TS-2
C. As a tuning/ballast/drivability device
....which are exactly what we are speaking of here in this thread.....we have been doing this literally for decades.
I do this all the time and will continue to do so.
Respectfully, I refuse to keep a conversation about a universal type 4 part....strictly bus centric. I have seen far too many conversations over the years in this forum and the 914 forum where the respective vehicle owners have a hard time finding parts they need because they assume their vehicles engine is unique to just the bus or 914 or even 411 and 412.
They have no idea that there are other VW types that use the exact same parts or have solved the same problems and have solutions available...maybe if you searched for the part you need using the name or make of the vehicle other than your own...to search.
There are hundreds and D and L injected vehicles ranging from BMW, Porsche Mercedes, Citroen, Opel, Renault...and others that use both D and L jet and have been using the same parts and the fixes we are speaking of....for decades.
Just sayin!
Ray |
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