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thom
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2000
Posts: 6300
Location: Sacramento
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 Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 5:49 pm Post subject: Pressure plate failure |
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Last weekend, I took off in my 23-window, then pulled over to do something on my phone (pre-order my coffee). While I was sitting there, the bus "lurched" - like when you put an old American car with an automatic transmission in drive. From that point, I couldn't get it out of gear and into any other gear. I shut it off and was able to get it out of gear, but when I started it up, I couldn't get it into gear again. I started it in 1st, and limped it home. I suspected it might have been the pressure plate, and I should have ordered one that day. I finally got the engine out and sure enough, it's broken.
The big question is: how or why? I've never had this happen before, but found anecdotes online of it happening to others.
This is a Sachs 180mm 6v clutch cover made in Brazil; I got it from Wolfsburg West.
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-Thom
1956 Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof
1957 23-Window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Westfalia single cab
1963 Unimog 404
1965 E-Type |
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70bus 
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2004
Posts: 1722
Location: P.O.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Pressur plate failure |
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There was at least one person who mentioned aftermarket clutch arm putting the t/o bearing at an angle. If so, could that cause more pressure on one side of plate? Still seems like you'd need an existing weak point in the plate to be susceptible to that stress, especially so fast...
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Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams
Raoul the 65 singlecab
Karl the 70 nine-seater |
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Casting Timmy
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2012
Posts: 1231
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
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early
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2012
Posts: 287
Location: Glen Carbon, IL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Pressure plate failure |
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I just had a similar problem with my bus engine.
Had a squeal from the TO bearing when engaging the clutch, but that only happened a few times.
Pulled the engine to replace the main seal and noticed the TO bearing and ring on pressure plate were discolored.
Upon reassembly I found that the pressure plate was not sitting level, as in your photo above.
Replaced pressure plate, clutch disc,to bearing and main seal . Took a couple turns off of the clutch adjustment.
I think it was over travel but I had adjusted clutch to specs in the Bentley .4" to .8" .
My question is does a diaphragm pressure plate have less travel than the old 3 arm style plate? Is there a different spec for clutch adjustment on the bus with a diaphragm clutch? |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 53189
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Pressure plate failure |
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| early wrote: |
| My question is does a diaphragm pressure plate have less travel than the old 3 arm style plate? Is there a different spec for clutch adjustment on the bus with a diaphragm clutch? |
The later release arms used with diaphragm plates were longer, softer pedal and shorter throw.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 4224
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Pressure plate failure |
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Stock throwout arms break easily. Check it for cracks
The throwout bearing contact surface on the pressure plate can be non parallel to the disk surface if the pressure plate 6 bolts arent tightened evenly |
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early
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2012
Posts: 287
Location: Glen Carbon, IL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Pressure plate failure |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| early wrote: |
| My question is does a diaphragm pressure plate have less travel than the old 3 arm style plate? Is there a different spec for clutch adjustment on the bus with a diaphragm clutch? |
The later release arms used with diaphragm plates were longer, softer pedal and shorter throw. |
Makes sense, so I have added more Freeplay at the pedal.
Before if I pushed pedal to the floor I would hear a slight screech.
| chrisflstf wrote: |
Stock throwout arms break easily. Check it for cracks
The throwout bearing contact surface on the pressure plate can be non parallel to the disk surface if the pressure plate 6 bolts arent tightened evenly |
Yes, I always pull the pressure plate down in a criss cross bolt pattern, torquing slowly up to 18 ft. Lbs. The new plate I installed, laid down nice and flat as expected. I believe I bent it from having clutch adjustment too tight and pushing clutch lever to the floor.
The clutch arm appeared to be okay and is working okay now (and main seal is NOT leaking!). But that doesn't mean arm won't have any problems in the future.
Thanks. Sorry to hijack but it's a long the same lines of OP thread. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33452
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Pressure plate failure |
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| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Stock throwout arms break easily. |
Really?
53 years with my 1970 and 49 years with my 1971, and never have I broken a stock throwout arm. 1600cc engine and 1835cc dual-port engine.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3678
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Pressure plate failure |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Stock throwout arms break easily. |
Really?
53 years with my 1970 and 49 years with my 1971, and never have I broken a stock throwout arm. 1600cc engine and 1835cc dual-port engine. |
Do you realize your #1 most popular comment is "My car went a million years, never had a problem".
As if somehow, telling someone that has the broken part that it should never happened simply because yours hasnt broke in your situation.
So i can say, "Really, I broke my stock throwout arm" back to you, as its true. But does that help the poster that has a problem?
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80411
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Pressure plate failure |
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| jpaull wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Stock throwout arms break easily. |
Really?
53 years with my 1970 and 49 years with my 1971, and never have I broken a stock throwout arm. 1600cc engine and 1835cc dual-port engine. |
Do you realize your #1 most popular comment is "My car went a million years, never had a problem".
As if somehow, telling someone that has the broken part that it should never happened simply because yours hasnt broke in your situation.
So i can say, "Really, I broke my stock throwout arm" back to you, as its true. But does that help the poster that has a problem? |
His car is a unicorn. 1835 with an 8 pass cooler over the fan inlet in the shroud.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 4224
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Pressure plate failure |
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| I've broke 2 stock throw out arms, with stock pressure plates. They are a weak link |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80411
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Pressure plate failure |
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| chrisflstf wrote: |
| I've broke 2 stock throw out arms, with stock pressure plates. They are a weak link |
Were they OE or aftermarket?
I was able to bend the arms with my hands of a EMPI crossshaft.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 4224
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Pressure plate failure |
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| Both were stock. The factory welds were minimal at best. Maybe cusser had a better welder at that factory that day |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33452
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2025 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Pressure plate failure |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Stock throwout arms break easily. |
Really?
53 years with my 1970 and 49 years with my 1971, and never have I broken a stock throwout arm. 1600cc engine and 1835cc dual-port engine. |
I have had the clutch pedals themselves break on both my VWs though. I think one was welded and the other I may have simply replaced, cannot remember....looks welded up in the photo below (on the 1970).
I've also had the clutch hooks simply wear out, and replaced those.
I had the clutch cable break on my 1970 while on vacation in California in 1979, but I had a spare and spare wingnut in my trunk.
Mrs. Cusser had the clutch cable break in my 1971 Super about 30 years ago.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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KevinAlbrecht
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 1005
Location: Ocean City > Boca > Pompano > Kirkland > Eugene > Sarasota > Babcock Ranch
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2025 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Pressure plate failure |
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I have had several of the pressure plates that style 'break' that way where one side of the springs fail, causing the tilt.
after the second one, somebody told me that I over adjust my clutch, but I have had them fail after shops have adjusted them as well.
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Kevin Albrecht
1963 Panel
Don't forget those seat-belts!
My '66 after the crash.
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6335
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2025 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Pressure plate failure |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| jpaull wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Stock throwout arms break easily. |
Really?
53 years with my 1970 and 49 years with my 1971, and never have I broken a stock throwout arm. 1600cc engine and 1835cc dual-port engine. |
Do you realize your #1 most popular comment is "My car went a million years, never had a problem".
As if somehow, telling someone that has the broken part that it should never happened simply because yours hasnt broke in your situation.
So i can say, "Really, I broke my stock throwout arm" back to you, as its true. But does that help the poster that has a problem? |
His car is a unicorn. 1835 with an 8 pass cooler over the fan inlet in the shroud. |
of the 33,383 posts, 98% of them are the same thing over and over. 
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drive your split. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33452
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2025 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Pressure plate failure |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| His car is a unicorn. 1835 with an 8 pass cooler over the fan inlet in the shroud. |
Was really a unicorn when it also had the dealer-installed DPD air conditioning, and I would take it on mid-summer trips from Phoenix to California on vacation.
In 1985, when future Mrs. Cusser and I took it from Phoenix to Santa Barbara, my tennis partner - who by random chance knew Mrs. Cusser as a student in her aerobics class - said to her: "You're going to California with HIM and in THAT CAR ???"
From a 1979 issue of Hot VWs magazine; note its CUSSER license plate, got it on the very first day that Arizona issued them, in 1974.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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