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TimberwolfZ28
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2005
Posts: 197
Location: Battle Creek, MI
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 Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:53 am Post subject: Couple of early pics of the turbo sandrail motor |
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I know the turbo and distributor don't look so hot on there, but they may not be used when it's all said and done, and the shroud is just for mockup. The dizzy is probably going to go away in favor of a ford DIS4 setup controlled by a "Megasquirt 'n' Spark" ECM unless someone has another economical suggestion for an engine management system.
I noticed the oil cooler adapter has a crack in it (you can see it in one of the pictures), and it was brand new when I dropped it off to Fun Buggies 
http://www.sixtyninecamaro.com/images/buggy/motor
I have a big box of 1.75" stainless mandrel bends waiting in the garage, so today I am going to mock up the intake manifold. And I need to design an adapter to help bolt on the throttle body. It's a 3 bolt TB from a GM 4.3 vortec. I need to adapt it to the tubes that will feed the end castings. |
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volksfiend
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 283
Location: Mo....West of Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:58 am Post subject: |
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 Ditch the shitty aftermarket cylinder tins....they do not have the proper deflection vanes in them. Ditch the shitty chrome valve covers unless you live in Siberia. Chrome valve covers and sump plate were part of an arctic package that VW had for keeping the oil warmer. With a turbo, the last thing you need is warmer oil. Ditch the melling cast iron oil pump...buy an aluminum pump, so it expands at the proper rate and doesn't suck air...and leak. Looks like the case is tapped for full flow, but you don't have a ff pump cover on it???? WTF...when you ditch the smelling pump, buy a good steel full flow pump cover, Use good lines and put a good filter (oberg or meca come to mind) then use a thermo switch and route to your oil cooler. Which brings me finally to your cracked oil cooler adapter. You may have guessed where I'm gonna go by now..
Ditch that POS too. Put a normal type 1 german oil cooler where it belongs. The fan shroud has me slightly confuzzled...it apears to be aftermarket, since it isn't a stale air heating system....and yet its non-doghouse??? Interesting piece...ditch it. <g> I notice a gap between the shitty chrome cylinder tin and the block. When you do get real tins be sure and add a strip to them to close this gap so the pressurized coolling air doesn't escape without cooling your heads. Also add a 2 1/2 quart minimum (preferably bigger) deep sump. You are going to need to fit a bung in it for the turbo drain. Good luck with your project.  |
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TimberwolfZ28
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2005
Posts: 197
Location: Battle Creek, MI
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:42 am Post subject: |
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yeah, the chrome will all go away. The guy who assembled the longblock put the valve covers on and I just stuck the cylinder tins on for mockup.
The doghouse shroud is also just a mockup piece. I just wanted something to sit in there while I was routing intake tubes. I tossed it infavor of one of my older aluminum housings already, as the asymetrical shape is a little easier for routing the plumbing for the intake and turbo.
It's a CB aluminum case, so yes, it does have a taller deck and therefore causes gaps at the tin to engine area, as well as the fan shroud to tin area.
I have cast aluminum finned valve covers to go on at final assembly.
Thanks for the advice on the deep sump. I was considering it but wasn't sure what size to use.
As far as the full flow pump... my old motor had a remote filter that was plumbed in along the lines routing to the remote oil cooler. I'm kind of new to aircooled motors and still learning, so tell me, will this not work with full flow? Try not to be too hard on me for asking such questions...as I said I am still learning 
Would a stock german oil cooler inside the shroud actually be better than a remote cooler? It seems like there would a better cooling effect from the fresh air 
Also, my fuel pump block off has a 1/8" NPT threaded boss. Looks like I could drill out the bottom and screw in a fitting if I wanted. Any reason I couldn't use that as an oil drain back?
Last edited by TimberwolfZ28 on Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TimberwolfZ28
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2005
Posts: 197
Location: Battle Creek, MI
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:58 am Post subject: |
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check em out...world's smallest fuel rails:
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tuna
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2004
Posts: 475
Location: Fontana, SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| TimberwolfZ28 wrote: |
The doghouse shroud is also just a mockup piece. I just wanted something to sit in there while I was routing intake tubes. I tossed it infavor of one of my older aluminum housings already, as the asymetrical shape is a little easier for routing the plumbing for the intake and turbo.
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Are you talking about using one of those old aluminum sloping fan shrouds? Rethink that decision. Stock doghouse or a DTM.
| TimberwolfZ28 wrote: |
| I have cast aluminum finned valve covers to go on at final assembly. |
Go stock.... get a set of German covers and bales, paint them flat black and don't worry about them.
| TimberwolfZ28 wrote: |
| Would a stock german oil cooler inside the shroud actually be better than a remote cooler? It seems like there would a better cooling effect from the fresh air |
Definitely use the stock oil cooler, the doghouse model being the best. If you really have to, run an external in addition to the stock one, but include a thermostat switch in the plumbing to the external one, it keeps from overcooling the oil when it's cold.
Tuna
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clayster89
Samba Pitman
Joined: July 26, 2005
Posts: 722
Location: Trying To Baja!
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| volksfiend wrote: |
Ditch the shitty aftermarket cylinder tins....they do not have the proper deflection vanes in them. Ditch the shitty chrome valve covers unless you live in Siberia. Chrome valve covers and sump plate were part of an arctic package that VW had for keeping the oil warmer. With a turbo, the last thing you need is warmer oil. Ditch the melling cast iron oil pump...buy an aluminum pump, so it expands at the proper rate and doesn't suck air...and leak. Looks like the case is tapped for full flow, but you don't have a ff pump cover on it???? WTF...when you ditch the smelling pump, buy a good steel full flow pump cover, Use good lines and put a good filter (oberg or meca come to mind) then use a thermo switch and route to your oil cooler. Which brings me finally to your cracked oil cooler adapter. You may have guessed where I'm gonna go by now..
Ditch that POS too. Put a normal type 1 german oil cooler where it belongs. The fan shroud has me slightly confuzzled...it apears to be aftermarket, since it isn't a stale air heating system....and yet its non-doghouse??? Interesting piece...ditch it. <g> I notice a gap between the shitty chrome cylinder tin and the block. When you do get real tins be sure and add a strip to them to close this gap so the pressurized coolling air doesn't escape without cooling your heads. Also add a 2 1/2 quart minimum (preferably bigger) deep sump. You are going to need to fit a bung in it for the turbo drain. Good luck with your project. |
God damn is there anything good about the project looks badass to me but to you it looks like shit  |
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volksfiend
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 283
Location: Mo....West of Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| TimberwolfZ28 wrote: |
Also, my fuel pump block off has a 1/8" NPT threaded boss. Looks like I could drill out the bottom and screw in a fitting if I wanted. Any reason I couldn't use that as an oil drain back? |
Tuna covered most things. About the drain back. You can certainely use the fuel pump location, though an 1/8th is far too small 3/8 minimum. The oil that comes out of the turbo is frothy. It needs a much larger return line than the feed line for it to flow correctly. The downside of the fuel pump location is that it will pass over the crank on its way down getting even more aeration. The upside is it is definitely above oil level. Make sure your turbo drain is at the bottom of the housing when designing your system and give it as straight a path as possible. That said, there are many with far more knowledge on turbo's than myself. You may wish to do a little reading and searching at www.shoptalkforums.com and www.cal-look.com as well as here. Follow posts by those such as Turbo Bob who have daily driver turbo engines that live. |
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volksfiend
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 283
Location: Mo....West of Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| clayster89 wrote: |
| God damn is there anything good about the project looks badass to me but to you it looks like shit |
Look Kid, I'm happy that you are building a chevelle eating drag bug with a chromed out 1641 (yeah yeah I know its gonna be a stroker now from a circle track racer), but many people here have gotten past the stage you are at. We all started out doing what "looked" badass. After a few years and many wheelbarrows full of cash those of us still in the hobby have learned that looks kill. I suppose I could just say...."way kewl rad engine man." However, the nice thing about the net is this gentleman now has an opportunity to throw out ideas to the public and have them critiqued *before* spending a shitload of cash for a canoe anchor. I think turbo stroker engines are pretty damn badass myself. I also recognize that turbos produce a LOT more heat and strain. Pointing out OBVIOUS cooling system errors is not dissing the project at all. What I am doing is trying to ensure he doesn't piss his money away on a three ride grenade and leave the VW hobby thinking that they are unreliable POS's (as so many people did before the information age). He seems to understand the effort and is asking intelligent questions on whether his proposed solutions are good ones and why not. There is a wealth of knowledge on these forums. If you dig down and ask intelligent questions, often time you will perk the interest of one of the more venerable people in the world of air cooled performance. Hope that clears it up for ya. |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:37 am Post subject: |
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It does have potential. But I also agree that you should use OEM tim and the stock cooler. If you need extra cooling, add a second cooler on the flull flow circut.
Keep up posted.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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Mr. Unpopular
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2005
Posts: 3715
Location: Tampa Florida
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:23 am Post subject: |
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While everyone is "offering" advice, I'll join in
For the amount of boost you'll be running on that motor, I'd keep the internal wastegate on the turbo and ditch the external. The 90 degree "T" for the external gate really won't be optimum for controlling boost. I used an internal gate and a $49 manual boost controller set at 22 lbs in my Mustang. I just finished a header with external gate, but I put some thought into its placement.
Very neat project though and it should be quite fun! Definitely keep us posted. |
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