Aircooled Vanagon Woes

nachowayne · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: Aircooled Vanagon Woes

I'm posting this in the Bay window and Vanagon forums because my vanagon has such a wierd setup.

I have an 82 air cooled 2.0L Vanagon that was converted from FI to a Centermount Weber Progressive carb. At the moment, it will not start at all. Until yesterday, it would alternate between starting on the first turn and taking about five to ten minutes to start.

The engine turns over fine when the battery is fully charged, and the battery does charge when the van is running, so I don't think it is the starter or alternator. I checked for spark at the plug wires and didn't get anything, so I checked at the coil. No spark, so I replaced the coil(replaced plug wires and plugs at this time also). Started right up after this, but the problem returned shortly. A fuel pump as fairly inexpensive, so I replaced that and the filter between the tank and pump. After replacing the fuel pump, the bus ran fine for almost a week, then started doing the same thing again. When I replaced the fuel pump, I noticed that the gas would only run out of the tank for a second or so, then stop. I was also smelling gas inside the cab when I would fill the tank up all the way. I thought I might have some issues with crap in the tank, so I went ahead and got a new tank and the seal kit from busdepot and just put it in on Monday. The bus started right up after this and was starting fine for the rest of that day and the next morning(Yesterday). I drove it to work yesterday and it would not start when I got off. It is having the same symptoms as before, it will turn over fine, but will not start.

I have taken the carb off and cleaned it, but have not gotten a rebuild kit for it yet. After putting the carb back on and doing the base adjustments, she started right up, but not for long.

The distributor has been converted to one of those optical ones from crane cams(x700 I believe). I have considered getting rid of the crane cams system and going to pertronix or just back to points.

I have also considered getting rid of the weber progressive and going to dual carbs.

Any Ideas? I am getting very frustrated and am feeling extra dumb for throwing all of this money at the problem with no results.

Thanks,

Mitch

pocvw · Samba Member Joined: November 08, 2004 Posts: 338

Get the thing back to fuel injection. I don't know why people feel that carburetors are better, but they aren't. Anyway, it doesn't seem like the ignition is the problem - I mean, going back to points won't solve it.
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pitbovver · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject:

let me ask you this what tells the coil to fire (energize)? i had same issue with mine i have the OG setup with points and they werent making contact to energize the coil all the time, i had to take off the dizzy and have a buddy turn over the engine to observe the points opening and closing to realize they were only making weak contact if any. might be something to investigate, not knowing your set up. i just kept telling myself Fuel, Spark and Compression if you got those you got power. Good luck.

vwmaniaman · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject:

I had one of those pointless ignitions that wouldn't fire everytime the outside temperature was under 40 degrees. Drove me crazy for a while till I put all the conditions together. Went back to points and the problem went away.

Deep_Blue · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject:

Pointless ignitions...heh...pointless. Wink

I agree. FI works so much better when it is operational. You might think that carbs are better, but not after you have to synch a dual setup. Then it gets crap gas mileage.

If you're going to stick with a carb...then stick with A carb...duals are a nightmare.

Does anyone have a picture, or a detailed explination of what exactly POINTS are? I had an issue with some, tried to figure out what they were, and gave up. Are they inside the distributor??

SlowLane · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:30 am Post subject:

Randy in Maine · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:13 am Post subject:

And if you are going back to points, make sure you invest in a dwell meter. It will really pay off.

Deep_Blue · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:11 am Post subject:

I'll dig it back out and check...The easiest solution is the one I come up with last.
I really have worked on hundreds of engines and don't exactly know what the heck they are.

Dee-dee-dee... Anxious

pitbovver · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:03 am Post subject:

the points tell the coil to energize which inturn sends juice from the coil to the top of the dizzy which makes contact with the rotor which passes by each plug wire sending juice to the spark plug, (as i understand) correct me if im wrong, you may also want to observe the play in your dist.shaft it could also be worn and throw off the points gap (i.e. wollered-out)sp? this may not be the case if the pointless dist. came as a whole assy. or is it just a bolt in using the OG dist. cup? possible?

r39o · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:10 am Post subject:

Going back to points. PLEASE, say it isn't so?

Come on, now. The TCZ system all VWs used from around 79 to 92+ works real well. It is a seperate system with only one harness. The modules practically never go bad. The reluctor setup in the dizzy is very good and is very tolerant of worn out dizzy bushings. The green label coil is special to the system, but is extremely common. Sometimes the connections at the dizzy get damaged, but mustly from people monkeying around. You just have to be sure the little fingers in the connectors are OK. It is a VERY simple setup. It rarely gives problems.

The dizzy can wear out or get sticky inside. Or the vacuum dash pot can go bad (rare.) but that happens in any dizzy.

That electronic ignition is VERY good. Do yourself a favor and keep it. Do not go back to the stone age. Points are mechanical, wear and do funny things.

Like changing to a carb from FI, changing to points is just as dumb.
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SlowLane · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject:

Everything r39o says above is true, and I suppose I shouldn't have found it astounding that someone who had worked on engines for any length of time would not have encountered points, but I suppose that's just dating myself... Wink

In my opinion, the points in a Bosch distributor are proof that the Germans aren't always as brilliant as we often assume they are. They are a major PITA to adjust. I figure that every mechanic should be requred to adjust the points with a dwell meter on a Bosch distributor once, simply to give them an appreciation of how fine breakerless ignitions truly are. Twisted Evil

Don't go backwards.
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VW Dave · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject:

Those low pressure fuel pumps have a check valve in them that often sticks shut. The pump will run, but it can't no fuel to the carb. If the PO mounted the pump in the stock spot, disassemble the in side of the pump and take out the check valve. It's a little bitty piece with a spring behind it, did this to mine 6 monthes ago with no problems. I like my carb set up(as simple as you can get), gettin' 25mpg, but I live in a sub-tropical climate,I would imagine in a cold climate, the progressive carb would kinda' suck.

nachowayne · Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:41 pm Post subject:

I'm really starting to lean towards the carb being the problem. I would LOVE to go back to fuel injection. Seems like that would be a pretty big investment though. I figured I could go to dual carbs for maybe a little more than $500, and the bus would run better and get better gas mileage.(assuming I can get them adjusted right)

When it doesn't want to start, it really feels and sounds like it is flooding. I can also smell quite a bit of gas aroung the engine.

I have replaced; coil, distributor cap, rotor, plug wires, plugs, fuel pump, fuel tank, fuel filter. I have cleaned the air filter and the carb.

It doesn't really seem like the ignition system to me either. This has been happening since about November. When it first started happening, The coil tested out bad, so I replaced that and plugs, wires, cap, rotor. I have been getting spark since then though.

I went outside today during my break today and she started right up. Mad

grrrr

I would feel pretty stupid for replacing the tank, since it didn't fix the big problem, but it did fix the gas smell in the cabin after a fill up. One of the previous owners had already tried to fix that problem with the seal kit and failed. Plus it was a good workout. Cool

I'm going to go ahead and pull the carb over the weekend and see if I can find a rebuild kit for it. Not sure where I'm going after that. Probably a mechanic. We have a very good, very cool, vw mechanic just outside of town.

Don't know what I was thinking with the points comment. I really like the idea of never having to mess with those little screws and springs again. One thing I was wondering is, can I do vacuum advance with the XR700? My current setup has no vacuum can on the side and no vacuum hoses. Doesn't it run smoother with vacuum advance, rather than mechanical? Just wondering..

Thanks for all of the replies.

Mitch
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71 Bus
82 Westy

SlowLane · Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:50 pm Post subject:

VW Dave · Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject:

Dude, definitely go with vacuum advance, I tried a 009 in mine and it ran like total crap. Put the stocker back in with a pertronics and it runs great. Oh ya', that carb ain't worth a crap with a stock exhaust either, a header will make it come alive, anything that fits a 72-74 bay will work.

nachowayne · Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:17 pm Post subject:

I just took it over to Lester's on my lunch break. Once we get this problem resolved, I can think about what to do to make it better.

Thanks for all of your help. I am just tired of troubleshooting this issue.

I'll post what the problem was when I get it back.
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71 Bus
82 Westy

Randy in Maine · Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject:

Hey Mitch!

Is this you? I don't know. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=262467

nachowayne · Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject:

Ooohh.. I need that.
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71 Bus
82 Westy

nachowayne · Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject:

Well, I went over to Lester's and picked up the bus yesterday. I left it over there for 6 days and it would never replicate the issue. Mad

Started every time.

The tentative plan now is to drive it around till it strands me somewhere and then tow it over to the shop again(or test again on my own). It is tentative because I am almost certain it is the distributor and I was wanting to go to an svda with pertronics at some point, so I might just do that anyway. If it keeps starting through the weekend, I will most likely go ahead and order the parts.

I really wanted it to do it again though, so I could run some more tests before spending money.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks,

Mitch
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71 Bus
82 Westy

mkriley · Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject:

I had some of the same problems in the past it was the power relay that powered up the iginition it was intermintent for a long time and never could find it till it crapped out.


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