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Rebuilt Transmissions from Quality German Auto Parts
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pickupguy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: more info on trans Reply with quote

YellowSplittie wrote:
pickupguy wrote:
The only problem with returning the transmission is that it was built for me with a short shaft so I could use the old bell housing/starter and the 4th gear is a .82 with a 4.86 ring and pinion the third gear is also changed


Sounds CUSTOM to me. If they did have it in stock, they may have modified the shaft to your specs before shipping it.


Well I didn't find out until Feb 11 that the transmission had been in stock since june or july of 2005. I didn't know Rancho rebuilt it until then, you suggested calling them (Rancho) which I did. It turns out that the 75 091 trans comes with those gears and if they did change the output shaft ,which I don't believe was done after I purchased, it since the tag on the trans says

"Q-G-P special order short input shaft"

the question is did that tag come from Rancho or from QGAP?

my guess is Q-G-P stands for Quality German auto Parts and came from Rancho. Thomas said he had just the trans I needed for the Porsche engine. Maybe it was built for someone else in June or July and they returned it because it was bad I guess we will never know
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YellowSplittie
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: more info on trans Reply with quote

pickupguy wrote:
YellowSplittie wrote:
pickupguy wrote:
The only problem with returning the transmission is that it was built for me with a short shaft so I could use the old bell housing/starter and the 4th gear is a .82 with a 4.86 ring and pinion the third gear is also changed


Sounds CUSTOM to me. If they did have it in stock, they may have modified the shaft to your specs before shipping it.




"Q-G-P special order short input shaft"


And therein lies QG's reluctance to send you another transmission before getting the defective one back.

It makes a difference when you give us ALL the details.
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pickupguy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Icy wrote:
It was explained to you back in Page 2. Here's a refresher:
bljones wrote:
pickupguy wrote:
Has anybody had any dealings with these people Quality German Auto Parts? I purchased a rebuilt transmission from then for my type II. It was an 091. They wanted 900.00 for it and when I got the transmission and had it installed the whine in 3rd and 4th gear is terrible.


On their website they list rebuilt 091s for $649 plus $500 core charge.

pickupguy wrote:
What I have been told by my VW mechanic is that the gears are mis-matched and that is what is causing the whining sound. It shouldn't matter if they aren't stock gears they should be matched and should work correctly. it shouldn't whine.

Ah, now i understand the cost discrepancy. this wasn't a stock rebuild, you had some custom work done. why the difference betwen your claimed core charge and their advertised core charge though?

pickupguy wrote:
It wasn't a lemon, it wasn't rebuilt. Why should I pay over 700.00 in labor because the vendor used old parts and sold it as a newly rebuilt transmission, knowing that gear that are sold in a machined set wern't used.
Okay, now I am confused again. Was it rebuilt or wasn't it? if it wasn't rebuilt how did it get the custom gearset installed?


i am not a friend of the vendor, never done business with them, just an observer who has read this thread. Reading the posts from the vendor and you, it appears that on the vendor's side:
a) the vendor has been willing to replace the transmission.
b)the vendor is willing to offer a full refund on the purchase price, including return freight.
c) the vendor has offered to let you keep the transmission until you get another rebuilt locally, and then provide you a full purchase refund including return freight.

on the customer's side:
a) you threaten to cancel payment.
b) complain that they will not cover all costs.

You seem concerned with the 2-3 week downtime. i do not care what the local guy advertises or promises you, you are likely going to be facing similar downtime having it rebuilt locally.

I can understand you are unhappy. maybe it is time to take a deep breath, pick up the phone, call the vendor, and get this resolved.


all this was 2/3 weeks prior to finding out the trans was a stock 1975 with a short input shaft and built by Rancho. I was told by thomas it was special all that was special was the short input shaft I guess since I am dumb about these things I took there word for it. I have become much smarter since then.
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vwmotors
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well here I am again, its Valerie because with this guy it seems I will have to get on every page to defend our Co. against a cat like this. Well here is the e-mail he just sent me. This confirms that not even the credit card co. sides with this guy.Dear Kerry Hoffman,
> > >
> > > This is in reference to your billing dispute in the amount of $1325.00
> > from
> > > QUALITY GERMAN AUTO PA.
> > >
> > > After carefully reviewing your dispute we regret to inform you that we
> are
> > > unable to issue a credit to your Account.
> > >
> > > We understand that your dispute is with the overall quality of the
> > service,
> > > however, the fact that the transmission was acceptable upon delivery
and
> > was
> > > used, prevents us from taking action since we have no means by which
to
> > pursue
> > > a dispute against the merchant. We sympathize with your
unsatisfactory
> > > experience and regret our inability to provide assistance.
> > > Please contact the merchant for further assistance.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, we have no recourse to pursue your dispute. Please
> contact
> > the
> > > merchant directly regarding this matter.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Kavitha
> > > HBIXVQ
> > > GM Card Services Customer Care
> > > Billing Dispute Department
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Original Message Follows:
> > > -------------------------
> > >
> > > [ Attachment 1.3 Type: text/plain]
> > > Customer Care Billing Dispute (O100 L750)

it cannot get any plainer then this. This guy has tried to keep my upgraded 091 transmission and his money and the Credit card co sided with MY FACTS. you are looking at it with your own eyes.
Today I responded to him. here is my e-mai
lHello Mr. Hoffman this is Valerie, I told you, You reap what you sow. Funny It seems the credit card co. agrees with our facts that we provided to them. Thank you for this info. We had yet to hear if our response had been received. This confirms it. I am actually glad to hear the claim was reversed. See what happens when your not honest, and hell bent on bad mouthing someone. Your something else, thats all I can say and like I said before I seriously wonder if the trans is even bad. Any normal person would have had it out the same week it was bad, your still sitting on it even after all this drama. Make sure to post this on the Samba. Oh I forgot you only post what can help you look good.
valerie
800-817-5540

I am saying it right now I am not going to answer this guys e-mails anymore. Enough time has been spent on this. Kerry if you want call me again its FREE.......seems thats how you want things. to bad not this time.
Bad trans, yeah right......AGAIN ANYBODY WANT THE FACTS YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE E-MAILS AND CORRESPONDENCE SINCE THIS MESS STARTED, NO PROBLEM.....
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YellowSplittie
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a few questions, Valerie.

1. Was the transmission a return from someone else or do you normally stock "special order" transmissions?

2. Was the offer extended to the buyer to send him a replacement transmission before receiving the defective one back and using his credit card number as "collateral"?

3. Was the original transmission drop shipped from Rancho to him?
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vwmotors
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guy purchased and 091 bus transmission with upgrades for his particular need. He took out an 002 and wanted the 091 (better trans) more expensive to begin with. We sold him that and provided the necessay upgrade at additional cost (SPECIAL FOR HIS NEED) We shipped the trans to him UPS from our facility it was not drop shipped from Rancho.ALL our transmissions are done for us by Rancho Performance, we have had an exclusive relationship with them for over 20 years. We have great confidence in their people and Co. and when we have warranties they are handled in the same manner I tried to handle this initially. Issue a call tag when the trans was ready to come back pay for it then take it to rancho for inspection then proceed accordingly in a timely manner. then it just went hay wire from there because that is not what he wanted. I am sure you read the details. anyway we tried to resolve from the get go. It does not get any more simple then "send the trans back and we will give complete refund" We never got the trans, he issued a chargeback with his credit card co and initially got his money back and we had no trans. I then submitted our facts-e-mails etc. pertaining to the situation. Today we found that the credit card co at this point sided with us and reversed the chargeback. So honestly after all this I even question if the trans is even bad. The guy never even called our 800 number the first day he says it was whining he waited. I am just done with this guy. He makes us weary of even the good guys. Guys like this is the reason we want the bad product back first before doing anything to make sure it is faulty and not abused or ruined by the person themselves. Especially on special components. Hey I have tried. Now if he wants anything he can come in person thats how I feel. Thank you.
Valerie 800-817-5540
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pickupguy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vwmotors wrote:
The guy purchased and 091 bus transmission with upgrades for his particular need. He took out an 002 and wanted the 091 (better trans) more expensive to begin with. We sold him that and provided the necessay upgrade at additional cost (SPECIAL FOR HIS NEED) We shipped the trans to him UPS from our facility it was not drop shipped from Rancho.ALL our transmissions are done for us by Rancho Performance, we have had an exclusive relationship with them for over 20 years. We have great confidence in their people and Co. and when we have warranties they are handled in the same manner I tried to handle this initially. Issue a call tag when the trans was ready to come back pay for it then take it to rancho for inspection then proceed accordingly in a timely manner. then it just went hay wire from there because that is not what he wanted. I am sure you read the details. anyway we tried to resolve from the get go. It does not get any more simple then "send the trans back and we will give complete refund" We never got the trans, he issued a chargeback with his credit card co and initially got his money back and we had no trans. I then submitted our facts-e-mails etc. pertaining to the situation. Today we found that the credit card co at this point sided with us and reversed the chargeback. So honestly after all this I even question if the trans is even bad. The guy never even called our 800 number the first day he says it was whining he waited. I am just done with this guy. He makes us weary of even the good guys. Guys like this is the reason we want the bad product back first before doing anything to make sure it is faulty and not abused or ruined by the person themselves. Especially on special components. Hey I have tried. Now if he wants anything he can come in person thats how I feel. Thank you.
Valerie 800-817-5540


The transmisson was shipped next day and was in stock from june or July of 2005 remember you said that. I never got any money back from the cc co. You never tried to resolve the issue of the cost involved with R&R. You never have sent me an invoice. What about the difference in cost and the difference in shipping you never addressed this. Why was the trans in stock with a tag from Rancho saying special order short shaft. I sent you the e-mails showing the cc denied it. I told you that 2/3 weeks ago. These questions still remain to be answered. The transmission other than the short shaft installation is/was a stock 1975 Type II trans

Rancho also told me that 50% of the transmissions you return to them were not rebuilt by them originally

And the reason I got from the CC people for the denial "I could not provide an invoice to them" How convenient now I know why you never sent me one
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread has gone on for too long, is too melodramatic, and isn't resulting in anything except for a place for pickupguy to bitch and whine. An almost daily status of his credit card complaint and e-mails to the company are unnecessary, not to mention the ranting back and forth with the vendor here. I hope the mods lock this thread and/or delete it. The story has changed so many times that I can't keep straight what the buyer wants, wanted, or did in this entire process.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Icy wrote:
This thread has gone on for too long, is too melodramatic, and isn't resulting in anything except for a place for pickupguy to bitch and whine. An almost daily status of his credit card complaint and e-mails to the company are unnecessary, not to mention the ranting back and forth with the vendor here. I hope the mods lock this thread and/or delete it. The story has changed so many times that I can't keep straight what the buyer wants, wanted, or did in this entire process.


you are right send me an invoice, refund the extra shipping charges and I will go away. The trans isn't an issue anymore. valerie makes this big deal about "I will send it to anyone who wants to see it" but she won't send me a single invoice or two. Icy if you don't like it change the channel..I don't agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pickupguy wrote:
Icy wrote:
This thread has gone on for too long, is too melodramatic, and isn't resulting in anything except for a place for pickupguy to bitch and whine. An almost daily status of his credit card complaint and e-mails to the company are unnecessary, not to mention the ranting back and forth with the vendor here. I hope the mods lock this thread and/or delete it. The story has changed so many times that I can't keep straight what the buyer wants, wanted, or did in this entire process.


you are right send me an invoice, refund the extra shipping charges and I will go away. The trans isn't an issue anymore. valerie makes this big deal about "I will send it to anyone who wants to see it" but she won't send me a single invoice or two. Icy if you don't like it change the channel..I don't agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


Shipping is rarely, if ever, covered on return merchandise. Most of the time you are hit with a restocking fee. So I don't see why you are griping there.
Next comes "changing the channel". If you've been talking to these people on the phone like you are ranting and spouting off, then I understand why you haven't gone anywhere. You've been told several times to report the incident to your credit card company. If the CC hasn't done anything about it, then clue into the fact that you don't have a case. The next course of action would be to contact either the BBB in the state/county where that business is located and file a complaint. Next, use certified mail for all correspondence with the company so that you can go to the next level, which is to contact the AG of that state.

Sadly, I don't think you could get past you efforts to post a daily status of you current credit card rejection.

Have fun pissing in the wind.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluebus2 wrote:
you are right Icy but why won't QGAP answer the questions posed to them? Why the big difference in shipping charges? F**K send him the money to shut him up


There are other factors to shipping other than the rate posted on the UPS website. Have you ever considered the cost of the packaging (a pallet in this case, I'm sure), time to package it, etc. That can add up to $40 pretty quickly. Yes, you could say that should be part of the cost of doing business, but it is a cost that has to be paid, whether it be in additional shipping charges or increased cost of the product to the consumer.

The point is, he accepted the costs when he purchased. Now he's just trying to justify his asinine behavior with subterfuge.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

according to the CC company they won't do anything because I can't produce an invoice from QGAP. Well they refuse to send me one the shipping wasn't a pallet it was a box and it was returned to them.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluebus2 wrote:
YellowSplittie wrote:
I have a few questions, Valerie.

1. Was the transmission a return from someone else or do you normally stock "special order" transmissions?

2. Was the offer extended to the buyer to send him a replacement transmission before receiving the defective one back and using his credit card number as "collateral"?

3. Was the original transmission drop shipped from Rancho to him?



I guess we will never know the answer


Did you read this?:

vwmotors wrote:
The guy purchased and 091 bus transmission with upgrades for his particular need. He took out an 002 and wanted the 091 (better trans) more expensive to begin with. We sold him that and provided the necessay upgrade at additional cost (SPECIAL FOR HIS NEED) We shipped the trans to him UPS from our facility it was not drop shipped from Rancho.ALL our transmissions are done for us by Rancho Performance, we have had an exclusive relationship with them for over 20 years. We have great confidence in their people and Co. and when we have warranties they are handled in the same manner I tried to handle this initially. Issue a call tag when the trans was ready to come back pay for it then take it to rancho for inspection then proceed accordingly in a timely manner. then it just went hay wire from there because that is not what he wanted. I am sure you read the details. anyway we tried to resolve from the get go. It does not get any more simple then "send the trans back and we will give complete refund" We never got the trans, he issued a chargeback with his credit card co and initially got his money back and we had no trans. I then submitted our facts-e-mails etc. pertaining to the situation. Today we found that the credit card co at this point sided with us and reversed the chargeback. So honestly after all this I even question if the trans is even bad. The guy never even called our 800 number the first day he says it was whining he waited. I am just done with this guy. He makes us weary of even the good guys. Guys like this is the reason we want the bad product back first before doing anything to make sure it is faulty and not abused or ruined by the person themselves. Especially on special components. Hey I have tried. Now if he wants anything he can come in person thats how I feel. Thank you.
Valerie 800-817-5540


Looks like she answered to me.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YellowSplittie wrote:
bluebus2 wrote:
YellowSplittie wrote:
I have a few questions, Valerie.

1. Was the transmission a return from someone else or do you normally stock "special order" transmissions?

2. Was the offer extended to the buyer to send him a replacement transmission before receiving the defective one back and using his credit card number as "collateral"?

3. Was the original transmission drop shipped from Rancho to him?



I guess we will never know the answer


I read it and it turns out that the trans was a stock 1975 Type II with a short input shaft. The trans was in stock that way from June/July 2005. There were no modifications other than those done by Rancho in June/July.
Did you read this?:

vwmotors wrote:
The guy purchased and 091 bus transmission with upgrades for his particular need. He took out an 002 and wanted the 091 (better trans) more expensive to begin with. We sold him that and provided the necessay upgrade at additional cost (SPECIAL FOR HIS NEED) We shipped the trans to him UPS from our facility it was not drop shipped from Rancho.ALL our transmissions are done for us by Rancho Performance, we have had an exclusive relationship with them for over 20 years. We have great confidence in their people and Co. and when we have warranties they are handled in the same manner I tried to handle this initially. Issue a call tag when the trans was ready to come back pay for it then take it to rancho for inspection then proceed accordingly in a timely manner. then it just went hay wire from there because that is not what he wanted. I am sure you read the details. anyway we tried to resolve from the get go. It does not get any more simple then "send the trans back and we will give complete refund" We never got the trans, he issued a chargeback with his credit card co and initially got his money back and we had no trans. I then submitted our facts-e-mails etc. pertaining to the situation. Today we found that the credit card co at this point sided with us and reversed the chargeback. So honestly after all this I even question if the trans is even bad. The guy never even called our 800 number the first day he says it was whining he waited. I am just done with this guy. He makes us weary of even the good guys. Guys like this is the reason we want the bad product back first before doing anything to make sure it is faulty and not abused or ruined by the person themselves. Especially on special components. Hey I have tried. Now if he wants anything he can come in person thats how I feel. Thank you.
Valerie 800-817-5540


Looks like she answered to me.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pickupguy wrote:


I read it and it turns out that the trans was a stock 1975 Type II with a short input shaft. The trans was in stock that way from June/July 2005. There were no modifications other than those done by Rancho in June/July.



And you know this how?

When this all began, you hadn't a clue what you were purchasing. You thought you were buying something out of the ordinary. Now you are some sort of transmission expert? What leads you to believe that the stock 75 Type 2 transmission has a short input shaft?

Maybe you could go over to the Bay Window Bus forum and ask them what length the shaft is on a stock transmission. I'm betting that QGP changed that shaft out to fit your 002 bellhousing before they shipped it to you just like they said.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no such thing as a 75 091 transmission. The first one didn't appear until 76. Sounds like the gearbox in question is a custom built 091 with an 002 bellhousing with a short input shaft. If it was sitting on their shelf from June to Nov, so what? It is still a custom built gearbox.

Pickupguy, you don't need an invoice to do a CC chargeback. We are not stupid. If a thief gets your CC number and makes a bunch of charges, are you supposed to provide the CC co with invoices?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce wrote:
There is no such thing as a 75 091 transmission. The first one didn't appear until 76. Sounds like the gearbox in question is a custom built 091 with an 002 bellhousing with a short input shaft. If it was sitting on their shelf from June to Nov, so what? It is still a custom built gearbox.

Pickupguy, you don't need an invoice to do a CC chargeback. We are not stupid. If a thief gets your CC number and makes a bunch of charges, are you supposed to provide the CC co with invoices?


When in 1976 did they appear or did they appear in 1975 and called 1976?

there is a difference between a stolen cc charges. You must fill out a form stating that those were fradulant charges and then and only then will cc company investigate. I was not asking for a full charge back. Had you read all the threads you would see that I was willing to pay for the shipping and corecharge. Since I couldn't prove how much each part of the charge was it was denied. Sure if I was asking for the whole 1350 that could be true. Here is a copy of the e-mail from CC asking for proof of the 900.00 part of the charge

Dear Kerry Hoffman,

This is in reference to your billing dispute in the amount of $1,325.00 from
QUALITY GERMAN AUTO PA.

In order for us to be able to assist you. Please provide the following
documents.

- Please provide a signed letter from another qualified merchant, on their
company letterhead or invoice, stating that the services provided to you was
found to be faulty and/or unnecessary upon their professional inspection.
Please understand that a merchant's opinion does not qualify as substantial
documentation and that the merchant needs to provide a professional statement
verifying their information.

- Provide copy of the itemized bill showing that the $900.00 was for the rebuilding of the transmission.

- Also detail the outcome of your recent attempts to contact the merchant
including the date of contact.

You may provide this information as a reply to this email. Attachments must be
sent in one of the following formats: .tif, .gif, .bmp or .jpg. Or you may
fax your documentation to 1-800-896-4182 Attn: HBIXVQ

If a response is not received within 10 calendar days, we will consider the
matter resolved.

To ensure a quick response, please refer to the following reference number:
4509-30JAN06

You are important to us and we appreciate your business.



Sincerely,

Kavitha
HBIXVQ
GM Card Services Customer Care
Billing Dispute Department
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YellowSplittie wrote:
pickupguy wrote:


I read it and it turns out that the trans was a stock 1975 Type II with a short input shaft. The trans was in stock that way from June/July 2005. There were no modifications other than those done by Rancho in June/July.



And you know this how?

When this all began, you hadn't a clue what you were purchasing. You thought you were buying something out of the ordinary. Now you are some sort of transmission expert? What leads you to believe that the stock 75 Type 2 transmission has a short input shaft?

Maybe you could go over to the Bay Window Bus forum and ask them what length the shaft is on a stock transmission. I'm betting that QGP changed that shaft out to fit your 002 bellhousing before they shipped it to you just like they said.


I don't think they ever said what the mods were? "We sold him that and provided the necessay upgrade at additional cost (SPECIAL FOR HIS NEED)" what are upgrades only the invoice knows you are right it was stock.

The 1975 and older bell housing differs from the 1976 and later by 1/4 " the 1976 bellhousing also uses a different starter than the 1975 from that I would figgure that the input shaft for the 1976 and later trans would be longer so the input shaft would ride in the bushing on the flywheel. If a short shaft were used with the later bellhousing the trans input shaft would be to short, also the starter would engauge but wouldn't mesh with flywheel teeth all the way leading to starter gear being torn up or flywheel teeth being torn up
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vwmotors
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Posts: 12
Location: Montclair, CA
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People have a clear idea of what your about and what is going on. We are no longer answering your e-mails as you have noticed.As far as we are concerned this a CLOSED CASE. You can come in person if you want. our address is 5113 B. Brooks St. Montclair Ca 91763. As for Rancho making a statement such as that "I doubt it", if that is true provide a name, I am positive you must have gotten a name after all this is you we are talking about.

again for everyone to view the credit card co. sided with our FACTS

> > > Dear Kerry Hoffman,
> > >
> > > This is in reference to your billing dispute in the amount of $1325.00
> > from
> > > QUALITY GERMAN AUTO PA.
> > >
> > > After carefully reviewing your dispute we regret to inform you that we
> are
> > > unable to issue a credit to your Account.
> > >
> > > We understand that your dispute is with the overall quality of the
> > service,
> > > however, the fact that the transmission was acceptable upon delivery
and
> > was
> > > used, prevents us from taking action since we have no means by which
to
> > pursue
> > > a dispute against the merchant. We sympathize with your
unsatisfactory
> > > experience and regret our inability to provide assistance.
> > > Please contact the merchant for further assistance.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, we have no recourse to pursue your dispute. Please
> contact
> > the
> > > merchant directly regarding this matter.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Kavitha
> > > HBIXVQ
> > > GM Card Services Customer Care
> > > Billing Dispute Department
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Original Message Follows:
> > > -------------------------
> > >
> > > [ Attachment 1.3 Type: text/plain]
> > > Customer Care Billing Dispute (O100 L750)

valerie
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EverettB Premium Member
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This topic is closed as it has turned into a series of pointless back and forth posting.

Contact the parties privately if you need more information.

Any future thread on this topics can expect to be deleted on sight, regardless of content.
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