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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2711
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: AVP motor report & questions (pictures) |
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http://www.eucasafari.vendioweb.com/AVP/
The local shop halted during the install of my new rebuilt AVP 2.0 motor when they saw something funny on the heads.
I don't know how quite to explain, so please take a look at the photo's.
basically part of the welded head seems to be chipping away, and they aren't sure if this is a failure or if the little bits should be bent and broken off prior to install, so they dont come out down the road and end up inside the motor.
I took a few other shots as well, showing things that cause me a bit of concern.
any advise, suggestions or other misc tomfoolery is of course welcomed.
chris
81 aircooled
actually, since you can post images here in the forum, i may as well link to them here as well:
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TheBeast Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 145 Location: W Michigan
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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You should read Richards info here about other suspects as well:
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Longblock.html
The flash is most likely from installing the new guides, but you'd think they would check their own work.
_________________ 1963 Anthracite Beetle 1776 w/ 34pict
1979 Bus Westfalia- Sage green w/ fancy stripes
1978 Bus - Sunroof model
1970 Beetle Convertible
1982 Rabbit Pick-up
1984 Vanagon Westfalia |
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Bottomend Grease
Joined: September 20, 2003 Posts: 1500 Location: Smell Aye! via Nude Hamster!
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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It shouldn't be a problem to simply clean away the offense but, I'd take heed of what Jake has been saying about the quality of these heads before continuing. |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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I would call the place you bought it from and communicate your issue. I would have the guy from the shop with me. |
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2711
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Randy in Maine wrote: |
I would call the place you bought it from and communicate your issue. I would have the guy from the shop with me. |
already in the works.
the guys at AVP have been really friendly and helpful through the process, and if this all works out ok, as it has for many many others, I will again say that im happy to have found it as an option...
I called them up, they will have their machinist on the phone tomorrow morning with the mechanic doing the work for me.
I have also emailed them these photo's from the local shop over to them, so they are both on the same page. |
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zabo Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2005 Posts: 1195 Location: ATL
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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ive had a few problems with some rebuilt avp heads I got through bus depot.
I'm not impressed with thier rebuilds. The number 1 intake stud pulled out, it had been helocoiled and failed after less than a mile. and the outer threads had been sandblasted off. _________________ 1960 6 volt sedan- 1978 adventurewagen
–wanted bill spreen atlanta dealer tag frame |
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visibleink Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2002 Posts: 1668 Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:45 am Post subject: |
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I would hate to worry about chunks breaking off. Why not just have AVP switch out that head? _________________ Been on the samba so long I remember petting that dog to see VWs, WYHI, and green bug girl.
<-- Helga, she slammed her dub in '53 and adjusted valves with her teeth |
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germansupplyscott Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 7093 Location: toronto
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:08 am Post subject: |
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it is no surpise that these things happen with economy rebuilds. you simply can't rebuild a type 4 engine and charge 1400.00 retail and expect anything different. anyone can do the math and see that the numbers don't add up. you cannot even buy the parts for a for a good rebuild for 1400.00 wholesale, let alone pay for any machine work and assembly. you have to cut corners to make it work. use chinese P&C, not rebuild the connecting rods, clean parts & paint them but not actually rebuild them, save assembly time by not checking deck height or valve geometry, and the real killer, find a small issue like a broken fin or valve guide boss but just keep going instead of back-tracking to fix it.
as for this engine itself - the broken fin will not be a problem, the engine can take it. the timesert in the plug hole is fine, at least they used a timesert and not a helcoil. the badly installed valve guide is just an indication of the the overall standard of workmanship in the shop that did the rebuild.
it isn't getting any easier or cheaper to get good parts for your old bus. _________________ SL |
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EdW Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2005 Posts: 2385 Location: Unemployment Office
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Just hope that parts of the case aren't breaking apart inside the engine. This piece here:
was found broken off inside my crankcase, seen here:
The piece that busted off was an obvious repair that was done pretty shoddily and did not last. Caused me to have to do a complete rebuild on my AVP longblock which was also found to be quite worn (with only 14,000 miles on the clock).
However, I'm extremely pleased with the new rebuild, my bus now has power. _________________ 20‰
Quote: |
I would call him a dick, but a dick has a head on it |
Last edited by bljones on Today 4:20am; edited 1 time in total |
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whip618 Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 761 Location: Albuquerque
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:57 am Post subject: |
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EdW, that is the perfect " Type IV syndrome" example of what happens when someone over torques the oil strainer plate. These photos should be made a sticky so newbies to type IV's will understand the importance of the proper use of a torque wrench.
Phil _________________ Life is simple....either you're qualified or you're not.
USSVI.......Pride Runs Deep
USSVI Life member and Holland Club member
Samba Member No. 3307 |
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EdW Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2005 Posts: 2385 Location: Unemployment Office
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: |
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whip618 wrote: |
EdW, that is the perfect " Type IV syndrome" example of what happens when someone over torques the oil strainer plate. These photos should be made a sticky so newbies to type IV's will understand the importance of the proper use of a torque wrench.
Phil |
Yes, it is a good photographic example of why torquing the sump plate properly is so important. Unfortunately for me, someone else made the mistake and I ended up with the bad case. _________________ 20‰
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I would call him a dick, but a dick has a head on it |
Last edited by bljones on Today 4:20am; edited 1 time in total |
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wayradmike Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2006 Posts: 208 Location: little rock, ar
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:15 am Post subject: |
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here's a pretty example of what happens when you don't use oversized valve guides in an apparently cheap-arsed head rebuild. dern yer hide PO.
note the piece of guide imbedded into the head.
_________________ 74 bay
"When you're feeling in the dumps
Don't be silly chumps
Just purse your lips and whistle - that's the thing.
And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life... " (Spamalot/Life of Brian) |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: |
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cool domed pistons...90mm? or the rare 93's? _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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Bajatacoma Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2003 Posts: 675 Location: the Great State of Denial
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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What really sucks about it is that you can build a performance Chevy 350 with a lot higher quality parts for less than a Type IV. It just doesn't make sense sometimes... _________________ '78 Westy
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed?
Hunter S Thompson |
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tristessa Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004 Posts: 3992 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Bajatacoma wrote: |
What really sucks about it is that you can build a performance Chevy 350 with a lot higher quality parts for less than a Type IV. It just doesn't make sense sometimes... |
Sure it does, it's just a matter of common vs. less common.
Small-block Chevys are dime-a-dozen like the Type I is. Common engine, parts are cheap. Once you get away from the common engines, the price of parts climbs (and sometimes goes through the roof), whether that less-common engine is VW (Type IV, 25hp, 36hp) or American V8 (Ford, Mopar, AMC, Pontiac).
The less-common engine may be better than the common one (see Type IV, AMC, Pontiac), but since there's less demand for parts, fewer parts are made and the prices are higher because of it. |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Try buying Porsche parts
Porsche Classic parts does supply parts for the older models but the prices, ouch. Atleast the quality is OEM instead the Chinese crap that is out there. _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2711
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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On that note, what would be the least expensive motor to build, and can you adapt it to fit a baywindow bus compartment?
I mean, if you can get a brand spankin new american V6 for around $2k, and the parts are as cheap as it sounds like they are, maybe that would be a good direction to head...
for those of us looking for some affordable powerplans.
the subaru motors can't be cheap, and those Ford guys on the east coast dont come cheap either. |
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Bajatacoma Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2003 Posts: 675 Location: the Great State of Denial
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Slap a Toyota engine in it (i.e Roadcow http://www.blabberon.com/picts.html]) and drive it till it dies. I'm kidding of course. _________________ '78 Westy
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed?
Hunter S Thompson |
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MarkTime Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2005 Posts: 94 Location: Austin, Texas
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MarkTime Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2005 Posts: 94 Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: |
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MarkTime wrote: |
LOL - I'm seriously thinking about a Kennedy Engineering adapter plate and a Subaru engine when we move to Colorado. My AVP rebuit engine had a weak oil pump and I'm still waiting on my core refund. |
Also: On first startup of my rebuilt AVP engine I heard a loud tapping. I took it to the shop. Motormania found the #2 lifter so loose it was'nt even working. If I had it to do all over again, I would have gone the route of adapting to a SUBARU. KLeeping stock is almost impossible these days as some parts are no longer available. _________________ http://www.AdBirds.com
---
News: Brazil Ends Air Cooled Kombi Production
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/21/ap/business/mainD8EKS1901.shtml
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