Engine troubles, need input guys.

[vwjedi]

1987 2.1 liter wasserboxer

Well, first off the symptoms: She will start fine and then the idle will fluctuate from 800 - about 2k rpms, up and down like when the A/C compressor cuts on. This didn't bother me so much, because she ran fine throughout the trip, only at initial start-up.

Now the symptoms are different, it will still do the funny idle (Idle control valve?) then it will just die en route suddenly. Start right back up then maybe do it again the next day. Well, this has gone on about a week untill tonight she died at Lowe's parking lot. Turn over and over, start up, run fine make it about 20 yards, die again.

I had to leave her there for the night, I don't think it is fuel however I haven't pulled a line to see if it is flowing. I have some other electrical ideas but I wanted to hear what you guys think first. Gotta be the best collaboration of Vanagon minds here so give it to me.
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1987 Wolfsburg T25 still riding out. A bunch of other VW's passed on...

[scruffyboy]

I'm not all that familiar with water boxers but just a couple of suggestions;
1) check the fuel filter/fuel pump
2) check the ignition, connections @ the distributor, Hall sensor,

Hope this helps.

[Wildthings]

I would put a pressure guage on it first to see what the fuel pressure is doing. Get a long enough hose so you can watch it while you drive or have a buddy watch it for you. A second possibility is a wiring problem. Check and recheck the grounds, the supply current and all connections. A third possibility is a vacuum leak, lot of old hoses, seals, and fittings to leak, check them all.

[vwjedi]

Oookay.

Well she isn't going anywhere so the "long enough hose while driving" thing is kinda out. I was thinking I could disconnect the fuel line to the FPR and make sure it is flowing right. I lean towards elec. because of it's sudden eratic behavior. I looked up engine grounds in the Bentley, says section 97.6, but my manual ends at 97.3 ????

I have never replaced the O2 sensor so that is a definate. The idle control valve seens reasonable since one symptom is poor idle. I have read some things about the Temp sensor II, over the #3 cylinder, I will check that too I guess. The plugs,cap,rotor are all pretty new and dry. Fuel filter is about year and half old? Lots to check I guess.
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1987 Wolfsburg T25 still riding out. A bunch of other VW's passed on...

[mightyart]

Yes, it sounds like it would be electric, you got a ghost in the machine.
Easy things to check, air flow meter flap see if it's binding, grounds, check that nothings loose like distributer cap, starter connections, make sure your injectors aren't loose.
If everything looks good after that, time to get out the multimeter, the Bentley and start testing, I'd start with the injectors, maybe a spray test.

[vwjedi]

Yes, ghost indeed.

I just returned to Lowe's parking lot and she fired right up, no hesitation, no iratic ideling, no sudden power loss throughout 10 min drive home ?!??

Apparently the cart gatherer was kind enough to excorcise the demons.

Well, new o2 sensor on order and plenty of stuff to check out soon. I already got a rental car to assure my arrival to work 45 miles away. I've got a 36 hour shift then a few days to perform my own gremlin hunt on this odd beast we lovingly call " Vanagon ".
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1987 Wolfsburg T25 still riding out. A bunch of other VW's passed on...

[getset]

Please let us know what you find as I have been batteling a similar demon. Erratic idle fluxuations, and stalling when it is cold. I have replaced the temp II, oxs, cleaned all grounds, and checked for vacum leaks. My oxs and batt lights are lickering. Oh yes, I also have a new alternator and have tested all the ignition parts.

It is to hot to work on and I am frustrated so I have been living with it. I would love to hear of any discoveries.

cheers!

[kevinbassplayer]

Sounds vaguely like "vanagon intermittent syndrome" If you're not familiar with it check out to start:

http://www.benplace.com/vanagon_intermittent_syndrome.htm

To me, its seems that fuel problem would be ruled out due to the fact that it "fixes" itself. All signs point to electrical of some nature. Best of luck.

[tds3pete]

I had the "vanagon intermittant sydrome" for years before it was diagnosed. Boy, do I wish this info had been available when I owned the car. Not even the dealers knew how to fix it.

I finally got fed up and sold the car which ran great 99.9% of the time but you could not trust it. The problem almost always happened when engine was warm-hot.

Good luck
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'58 Westy camper-come and gone
'73 Westy-bought new in Holland,now gone
'86 Syncro weekender-come and gone
'79 Westy...Oscar
'95 Eurovan Camper/5 spd...Marsha Mellow

[levi]

If the idle is jumping low-high-low you can rule out the fuel pump/filter...
If the fluctuation starts right away, you can also rule out the o2, since it doesn't do anything until warm...
http://www.geocities.com/harald_nancy/intermitt._syndrome.htm
I'd be looking real close for a vacuum line leak.
Could be throttle pos switch ?

[Terry Kay]

<<I'd be looking real close for a vacuum line leak.
Could be throttle pos switch?>>

Here ya go---

The first thing to check- the most obvious, and the last engine control system item anyone thinks of.

It's a wear item and should be the first part checked --always---in a situation like this.
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T.K.

[vwjedi]

Okay guys, well I can't believe I have been dealing with this issue for 2 weeks now. My wallet opens and cash flows out but the Van is still sitting, Bus Depot has order but no parts here!?!?!? Rental cars aren't cheap and they re-assure me that american cars suck! Okay done ranting now.

Taking Terry Kay's advice that it must be throttle position switch I ordered one from dealer and got it today. The Bentley manual says chack that connection is getting 5V with ignition key turned, I have 4.96V so that checks it is not wiring. Manual then gives directions to check throttle adjustment with engine running, well it is not fu*king running! Sooo anyway I am fine with just replacing it but the manual says,

step 1: Remove switch housing.

I can't figure out how to get underneath throttle body to do so, or remove it for that matter. I have removed the T.B. screws but it is not moving. The switch housing doesn't appear to come off, one piece? I am not having fun anymore.Any of you guys versed in this area???
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1987 Wolfsburg T25 still riding out. A bunch of other VW's passed on...

[jmfoust]

Not sure if this will help. Check the batter terminal connections and the battery to starter connection, as well as grounds. Is the battery hitting anything and grounding out? Re-seat all harness connections, afm, injectors. Clean grounds. You'll find it.

jamie

[vwjedi]

Not a starter problem, it will turn over for days. Sometimes start right up and drive me home with no issues from where she pooped out.

I've had alot of guesses I am onto specific info for throttle position switch, idle control valve, other F.I. parts. Thanks.



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1987 Wolfsburg T25 still riding out. A bunch of other VW's passed on...

[jmfoust]

[vwjedi]

Jmfoust-Look man, I could fill a whole page with a list of engine grounds that I checked and cleaned, terminals opened and juiced with dialectic grease, switches and such that were tested. I admit I am at a bit of a loss but I am asking specific questions now.

Has anyone replaced the afor mentioned items and what should I look out for or what direction should I take to replace them with ease. Thank you.
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1987 Wolfsburg T25 still riding out. A bunch of other VW's passed on...

[jmfoust]

look man - follow the bentley for testing procedures.

[86syncro]

Check your coil to distributor wire as well as the distributor hall sensor connection.

If your running good then it just quits then your looking at something electrical. If it starts sputtering or lurching around I would suspect a fuel related issue. Throwing expensive parts at it will not help you solve the problem. If you want to actually find the problem think about what it takes to make the engine run and then determine what systems are working and what are not.

One vaccum leak that plagued my 73' transporter was the brake booster. It ran fine at idle and at speed, but when I came to a stop the engine would want to die. The only happened when I had the brake applied.

If the idle control valve is dirty it may be sticking causing the fluctuating idle as well as low speed dying. You can spray it out with carb cleaner( Seafoam spray) to get the gunk out. Do this to the throttle plate as well.

[johnd47]

I lived in Europe and bought a 1982 Westfalia. Cutting out drove me nuts and I took it to the German mechanics. They concentrated on the fuel system. The final breakdown was on the autobahn outside of Heidelberg. I had it towed to a dealer and after several hours of testing, they discovered that it was the coil. When it got hot, the coil shut down. It cooled and I could start and run the vehicle. Good luck!!
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In theory, everything should work.

[vwjedi]

So this is the report as of today:

1. Checked/sanded/cleaned distrib. ground to engine block.
2. Checked & cleaned ground to MAF sensor and did Bentley checkbetween 3&4 terminals measured 0.578 k (0.5-1.0 is required) does this mean that the MAF could be on it's way out? Also moved air sensor flap and there was a resistance change between terminals 2&3. So cleaned up and put back together.
3. Removed throttle body and noticed that vac. hose to charcoal canister was tattered, replaced it and cleaned up the throttle body as it was coated inside and out with burnt oil. I think the nipple for vac. hose was clogged shut. Here she is all clean and shiny now.

The throttle position switch is located on a plate beneath the throttle body. The old one was gunked up and the wires were stiff and crusty, there was an audible click at idle and full throttle position, but I guess that doesn't mean the signal was still making it to the brain 100% of the time? Here is a pic compared to the new one, instalation is a wee tedious just take your time and don't lose any of those little parts!

The original had a more solid lever for the switch and just seemed a better quality than new VW part, but it was def. aged. Wheather or not it was the culprit, it feels good to know it is not 20 years old now. Put it all back together along with a new vac. hose to the fuel pump regulator that was dry and stiff. Took a while to start up but she did crank and ran well for a trial by fire which included about an hour long trip in stop and go traffic in 95 degree Florida heat. No probs so far!

The idle still fluctuates strangly but she didn't cut off once. A new idle control valve is on the way from Bus Depot, hopefully this will do it for a while. Hope this helps anyone with similar difficulties. Thanks for everyones input!
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1987 Wolfsburg T25 still riding out. A bunch of other VW's passed on...