36 HP Running HOT!!!

[Mr. Loaf]

Before I start let me say that this is a stock 36 HP motor, all cooling tins are in place, valves adjusted, timing set to 10 degrees BTDC, carburator adjusted correctly, plugs are a nice brown color, fan belt tight, no obstructions in fan, oil changed, screen cleaned with no surprises, oil bath filter in place, all in all every thing seems correct. Motor was rebuilt about 1000 miles ago and has always seemed to run very hot. The dipstick could almost burn you and the cooling tins over the cylinders are just about as hot. I have noticed the following and this is where my questions arise. I installed a mechanical oil filter guage where the oil sender goes to check oil pressures at various times. On start up pressure is 30-32 psi. After idling for about 20 minutes pressure has dropped to 14-15 psi. After driving approximately 10 miles and stopping the oil light will come on, generator light is off. When oil light started coming on at idle after the 10 mile trip I installed the guage to check oil pressure. Pressure is at 4-6 pounds. Are these pressures considered correct? The oil light will go back off at about 1800 rpm but will come on again at idle. I do not know if the oil pump was replaced at rebuild, does it install only one way and could it be worn out? I have a new OEM German one that is wider than what is there now that I can install but will that help? Also, is it possible that the oil cooler in the shroud is clogged? When the engine is off does the oil in the cooler drain back into the sump or is it held in the cooler using a check valve? Could it be installed backwards and how do you tell if it is. I am at a loss here and am trying to help out a Friend. The motor does not leak any oil either and oil level is correct. So, any ideas out there? Thank you for all of your replies!!
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[Towel Rail]

What kind of oil are you running? Everything else sounds fine to me.

I don't like the dipstick test, personally. Everyone has their own threshold of pain, and I can't even hang on to a 180 degree dipstick for 10 seconds...

[Eric&Barb]

Hi Volks,
Agreed! Get at least a cooking thermometer with long enough tip to get down into the oil via the dipstick tube to test for real temp.
Oil cooler drains into the sump which is why one should wait till ten minutes before trying to check oil level. Check fan opening for any paper or rags. Is the preheat ring ajusted properly?
Oil pressure does sopund low. Have you checked relief valve to be working properly.
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[Mr. Loaf]

Thank you for your replies. Motor has 30W oil in it but this oil pressure thing started when the motor had 10W-40 in it. I am checking the oil pressure relief today. Where will I find the preheat ring? Is it inside the shroud? Will let you know oil temperature when I find a long enough meat thermometer.
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Never drive faster than your Angel can fly
$24,100 was too hard to resist.................

[Eric&Barb]

Hi mkkraemer,
We do not like multi weight dino oil because when it gets too hot, it degrades to the lowest weight. For hot weather we use 30 Wt. Castrol. We use multiweight (10-30 Castrol) in cool/cold weather generally between Labor and Memorial weekends when outside temps are most likely to be below 70 F here in PNW of USA.
As for the pre-heat ring it should be in the cooling fan opening in the front of the shroud. It with its linkage down below the cylinders to the thermostat. This helps to warm up the engine faster to proper operating temp in cold weather. In weather below 50 F an engine can have problems of even reaching minimum operating oil temp of 160F oil temp. The ring works much like the 1965 and later thermostatic shroud flaps do.
Go to the vintagebus.com website and left click on the "Parts Manuals" on the left of the screen. That will take you to another website with LOTS of all sorts of VW info. Check out the either of the bus parts manual there (soon to come is a bug parts manual). Especially check out the the engine section with lots of exploded drawings. The bus and bug engines are the same except for the air cleaner and muffler, and small tin changes.
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[RareAir]

No mention if all the engine compartment seals are intact.
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1947 Typ 11a
1954 Typ 117
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1959 Typ 265
1961 356B
1966 Typ 151
1966 Typ 241

[Eric&Barb]

Hi Michael,
Glad we could help!
Oil pressure is affected by several factors, oil weight, outside temp, RPM, and engine temp. So if you were in 100F weather with 30 Wt. we could see 30 PSI for start up idling pressure, but if you were more like 70 F weather pressure should be more like 40 PSI.
Do try removing the oil pump cover and checking for wear. The cover can be ground flat, and as long as the gears are not worn beyond specs the pump should be fine.
VW did have minimum oil pressure levels for 36 HP of 28 PSI (2.0 kg./sq.cm.) at 158 F (70C) @ 2,500 RPM with 20 Wt. which they used in cooler weather over there.
At idle minimum of 7 PSI (0.5 kg./sq.cm.) with engine having attained operating temp.
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[janerick3]

Have you checked for mouse nests in the cooling tin?
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Thanks,
Jan K.

[Mr. Loaf]

You mean the mice are not supposed to be there? I thought that was what made the motor run. Maybe I should try feeding them? Oh, and RareAir, all seals are on the motor and every thing is there and appears to be correct. I can hold my hands behind the heater flaps, which are open and in front of the muffler and can feel a pretty good breeze there on both sides from the cooling fan. I did check my pressure relief valve today and when I removed the large screw the spring and the plunger fell right out into my hand. Reinstalled the plunger and then the spring, flat side of plunger to the top. Decided against pulling the oil pump today as I am not that ambitious right now. Will get to it later in the week and let you know what I find.
_________________
Never drive faster than your Angel can fly
$24,100 was too hard to resist.................

[wcfvw69]

Just curious as to what the outside air temps are when it runs hot?
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[Mr. Loaf]

Temps are in the 90's...................
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Never drive faster than your Angel can fly
$24,100 was too hard to resist.................

[My57Oval]

Maybe the oil cooler seals have swelled up, and are restricting the oil flow through the cooler? Not sure if this has been mentioned as a possibility.

[Logix]

Hi,

I noticed in another thread that you suggested setting up timing on a 36hp like this :

"Line your V notch up so that it is 1/4 inch to the left of the split in your case and then static time your motor. I believe that the way you timed it the first time you set it to TDC and not 10 degrees before TDC. The 1/4 inch to the left should get you to 7.5 BTDC."

Now,as far as I was aware the notch in the 36hp pulley should be at 7.5deg BTDC already, so if you time your motor how you suggested, you are running at 17.5 deg BTDC, which is way too much. Perhaps this is the cause of the over heating....

[John M.]

[EverettB]

[Mr. Loaf]

Had a trusted VW mechanic check my timing and the notch on the pulley is 10 degrees BTDC. Top dead center is about an inch to the left of the notch. The mechanic had a small tool, looked like the edge of a degree pulley, that fit on the edge of my pulley. He pulled #1 plug and installed what looked like a tube. When he rotated the engine by hand the tube would whistle at TDC. Ever seen on of these? Me either. Any how, timing is set at the notch using a strobe light and for now all seems to be going fine. Will keep every one posted if any thing else comes up!
_________________
Never drive faster than your Angel can fly
$24,100 was too hard to resist.................