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97gase
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2004
Posts: 47
Location: Fayetteville, AR
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 Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: Revolks and Jeff Hamilton |
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This is a warning to all people who love VW’s. This past spring my wife and I were on the search for a VW Type 3. It needed to be something that was totally reliable to be cruised all summer, but could be a little rough on the body and interior to be in our price range. We wanted to spend around $2500 on the car and then fix it up as time and money allowed while still having a driver. After several leads fell through, I called a few local shops to see if they knew of such a car for sale. I spoke with Jeff Hamilton at Revolks in Gravette, AR. He said that they had a 67 Squareback that a customer had brought in the previous fall. It had been driven from Oklahoma to their shop and the previous owners had decided no to restore it and might want to sell it. The car was supposed to be a runner with some cosmetic problems and only a small spot of rust on the floor pan. When we went to see it the engine blew smoke badly and a lesser price was agreed upon.
We gave $800 dollars and got a receipt and a forged bill of sale. We were sure to mention that we wanted the engine fixed, the brakes fixed and the small spot on the pan patched. Jeff assured us that our $2500 budget would be plenty to accomplish all this. Jeff was told and reminded several times to notify us if the cost might go over our budget. Time passed and we received pictures and bills on a weekly basis for the work done. Everything seemed on track and we were excited to be getting a VW to drive. Then we stopped hearing from Revolks and began trying to contact them. When we finally got in touch. They said that they weren’t sure how much money we were in for, but that it was getting close and they would send the next bill. When we got the next bill it put the total at over $3000 and we weren’t notified until then, but they said it was almost done. The rust was worse than expected and the brakes needed more than what was initially figured. It would be just another week. So we continued, thinking that the end was near. Another week passed and it was still almost done. It needed just a little more work to finish rebuilding and installing the engine, so we progressed. We took the engine tin and sandblasted it and repainted it ourselves. I ask Jeff to give me an estimate of how much more time it would take. He said three hours tops, it was almost ready. The next week the car was ready to be picked up and I ask how much more we owed. He told me that we were being charged for over 17 hours of labor. I was very upset, as I was expecting to only be charged for three hours. Apparently Jeff had forgotten several things. As a professional VW restoration shop that charges $55 per hour, 14 hours worth of work shouldn’t be “Forgotten.” Hmm… that comes to an extra $770. My wife and I scrounged up the extra money and went to finally be done with Jeff and his wife Nadine. We showed up at their shop to collect the car and settle up. Jeff had conveniently forgotten to bring the last invoice that showed what had happened during those mysterious extra 14 hours. He said it was mostly carb work and that he had rebuilt them, but didn’t have the correct kits. Hmm… fishy… I was frustrated and the car ran so I decided to cut my losses and pay the money. At this point we had paid Jeff over $5500 to do the work. For this amount I expected to have a reliable driver. I was given the car, the title with a different owner and price than what was on the forged title, and an assurance that Jeff would email me the last invoice. At this point Jeff quickly closed up shop and left. I got into the VW and started my way home. My wife and I agreed that we would put the mess behind us and enjoy the overpriced car. We drove about ten miles and I was elated to finally have a running VW after many years since the one I drove in high school. Suddenly the car started losing power and I felt very sick. The car died and I pulled over immediately. The car wouldn’t start and had gas in the oil. I called Jeff, but he was busy playing cards with friends and couldn’t help me that night. I ask what he was going to do to fix the situation. He offered to tie a rope around the bumper and drag it home the next day and that it probably just needed a new fuel pump. Since he had reused the old pump he would charge me to put on a new one and change the oil. I couldn’t spend more money paying him to fix anything so I borrowed a trailer and truck to bring it to my house. I changed the oil and put in a new fuel pump hoping to again have a running VW, but the oil filled with gas again and the car never left the driveway. Jeff said to try to rebuild the carbs. Hmm… what did I pay him to do? He then denied rebuilding them, but would send the last invoice. So I changed the oil and rebuilt the carbs. Apparently he hadn’t touched the carbs, but had spent 14 hours tuning them?!? The car, with newly rebuilt carbs ran great and I began preparing for the VW show in Eureka Springs, AR. On the Saturday of the show the VW was going to debut from the driveway. It got about 10 feet and the motor locked up SOLID!!! I was going through lots of emotions as I had paid Jeff at Revolks over $2500 for just the motor rebuild. We decided to just go and enjoy the day in Eureka. All our friends ask about the car not making it. We told the facts. I began trying to get in touch with Jeff. When I finally did he had skipped town and was in Canada. I told him the motor had locked up and He got very defensive. He completely denied rebuilding the engine and was not going to stand behind any of his work. Hmmm… What is rebuilding a motor? It has a new cam, pistons, etc. I had even seen the case split open in his shop. We continued trying to get some kind of answer from Jeff and Nadine at Revolks. We ask if Revolks might even buy the car back for just a portion of the investment. Jeff said that he was not the owner of Revolks and couldn’t buy the car back. Hmm… the shop is on his land but he doesn’t own it? We ask for the information from the person listed as the previous owner on the title and were refused. We have been refused the last invoice also. Jeff said that if we paid to have the car towed back to his shop that he would look at it for free, but we would be charged for any additional labor. Since I don’t have the means to transport the car, I offered to fix burgers if Jeff could just come to my house and check it out. He refused and claimed that I couldn’t possibly work on the motor in my garage since I had no lift. Hmm… How many VW owners do work without a lift? What an insult to so many people. He had no idea what my well equipped home garage is capable of. At this point we began corresponding with Jeff’s wife Nadine. She is extremely rude and has no value for Arkansas teachers. She doesn’t think they work very hard. After giving up on Jeff Scamilton, Nadine, and Revolks to do the right thing I started to disassemble the locked up motor. I found that the large washer that goes under the pulley bolt had been dropped under the pulley in the shrouding. The spark plugs didn’t match as some were Bosch and one was NGK. The #3 piston had the NGK and was shiny clean while the other pistons were discolored from actually firing. The #1 con rod had welded itself to the crank shaft.
I took all the parts to Paul at Bud’s Foreign Auto. Paul is GREAT! He was very helpful and appalled at my treatment at Revolks. He showed me that the oil pickup tube was never installed properly and that it was sucking air. This was the reason for the engine failing and is the responsibility of Jeff and Revolks. I sent emails to both Jeff and Nadine telling them what happened and they refuse to answer me at this time. I have spent many hundreds of dollars since toward getting my motor running again. The work done at Revolks was of less than poor quality and the customer service even worse. I have been personally insulted, cussed at, and cheated by the Revolks people. I am posting this to help others not to fall into their trap as I have. I will provide any pictures, emails, and invoice copies that are requested. Jeff is a crook. |
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97gase
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2004
Posts: 47
Location: Fayetteville, AR
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97gase
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2004
Posts: 47
Location: Fayetteville, AR
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject: email |
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Please email me with ANY questions.
[email protected] |
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newbugguy
Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2004
Posts: 131
Location: The Big I
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:15 am Post subject: Re: Revolks and Jeff Hamilton are Crooks |
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Sounds like a bad rap...however, this should have been your first warning before paying up another couple grand.
| 97gase wrote: |
We gave $800 dollars and got a receipt and a forged bill of sale. |
This would be the second clue.
| 97gase wrote: |
| I was given the car, the title with a different owner and price than what was on the forged title, and an assurance that Jeff would email me the last invoice. At this point Jeff quickly closed up shop and left. |
You could always take it up with the police with the forged docs...but they could very well take away the car being that it wasn't properly sold to you in the first place.
With that kind of money ($6,300), I'd seek some legal advice.
Good luck- 
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| lorse wrote: |
| I find myself pacing around the thing, pealing off chunks of rusted steel like mario flakes. |
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97gase
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2004
Posts: 47
Location: Fayetteville, AR
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| Believe me, I've already spoken with my Lawyer. Thanks. |
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ddesh
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2005
Posts: 165
Location: NW AR.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| Do a search on the revolks and read up your not the first |
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Smithy
Samba Smithy
Joined: May 10, 2004
Posts: 508
Location: under the hill
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like there is more than one "mario" out there. You have my condolences........
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Don't take life too seriously- you'll never live thru it....
Dyslexic rebel, I beats to the drum of a different march. |
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vwtoyguy
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2005
Posts: 344
Location: West Fork, AR
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Revolks is in gravette now? Last I knew it was in Siloam Springs?
Here is thier e-mail address for search perposes [email protected]
Yes they have a terrible rep so I have never dealt with them.
By the way........ I have seen the inside of one of pauls engines......... My one experiance with them was not good. |
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oc63rag
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2003
Posts: 2625
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure about AR law, but if the company is bonded your lawyer can go after the bond. The key is being first to do this. If others are in front of you in line then they get the bond first. This is all done through the courts so act quickly.
Good luck and sorry to hear about your experience.
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Designed for four soldiers and a machine gun...also for family use.
My food baby is crowning. |
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vwtoyguy
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2005
Posts: 344
Location: West Fork, AR
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:07 am Post subject: |
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I don't think that auto mechanics are bonded in Arkansas  |
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Matt K.
Paint and Body Nutcase
Joined: January 14, 2005
Posts: 2598
Location: Hemet, So Cal.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Wow, you definately got took, however the forged title is the scary part.
I for one would never lay any money down for a car that the title was forged... that in itself is asking for problems.
Secondly, most shops that i have delt with no matter the service they provide the work is based off the "Estimate" which means there could be a chance that the bill would be higher due to some unforseen circumstances..........But, that is where the shop should call you and tell what the problem is and how much more to fix it before they proceed that way there are no "Surprises" when the bill is paid.
Sounds like this guy is just a "Backyard" swindler and i hope you sue and recoop your loss........................good luck to you.
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This is my 23rd year in the Auto Body/Paint Game!
*Take a look at some of my custom paint: http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/mrpaint_2006/ .( NOTE: these are some older jobs but still neat.) |
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MrBonez123
Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2006
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| you know its sad i was reading your story and now i feel kinda sick its people like that who give vw,s a bad name sounds like this jeff guys needs some good old boy redemtiom LoL sorry for your loses |
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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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There was a guy here a couple of years ago who claimed ReVolks ripped him off. He went on long tirades about how he had a lawyer, was in contact with the AG of the State of Arkansas, and that he was going to make them pay. The funny part is he never came back here to report the outcome. I know ReVolks does a lot of work and has performed numerous restorations. Many people usually criticize Jeff for taking a long time, but he is a master with metal.
I am not discounting your post; however, I think there is more to this story than you are leading us to believe.
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West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
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wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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This is why most people dread taking their cars to repair shops. You never know who is honest and who will rip you off. I worked as a front end alignment tech and did frame repair also for a few years after high school. My boss was VERY honest and had wonderful integrity. He had a lot of business because of this reputation. It was discusting how many people came to us for a second opinion after getting large estimates for work that had to be done to stop tire wear or vibrations from other shops. In 99% of the time the parts that the other shops said needed to be replaced where in fact perfect. We would just align the car and balance the tires to solve the customers problems.
Too often people are getting ripped off when having their cars worked on and I feel for what you went through with this scum bag. I would sue, sue, sue and continue to post what you went through with this scumbag on other sites too.
This problem is not going to go away until the government gets serious with jail time for offenders for stealing which is exactly what these people are doing.
Hopefully Karma will play out and this dirt bag will get what he has coming to him.
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Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
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97gase
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2004
Posts: 47
Location: Fayetteville, AR
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Many people usually criticize Jeff for taking a long time, but he is a master with metal. |
The time taken to get the car done is not the issue. Also, yes he is great with metal. He did a swell job on our pans. BUT He was dishonest, rude, and when his rebuilt motor locked up after only 10 miles, he didn't stand behind it. I don't know the other guy's full story, but I do know that Revolks has complaints with Arkansas' Better Business Bureau and a pending police investigation. The point is that Way Out Auto and Bud's Foreign Auto do not have these and have a long standing good reputation in the community for quality of work AND their customer service. The main intent of my post is to get people to understand that they have an option. In the future, I am going to spend my money with the people that treat me and my VW well. Revolks did not.
As far as there being more to the story, ask Jeff. If he wants to make the situation right then that would be great. The bottom line is that I spent a lot of money for a reliable engine that only lasted 10 miles and now I have to fix it myself. If you would like to see e-mails, pics or invoices then just email me. |
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vwtoyguy
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2005
Posts: 344
Location: West Fork, AR
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Icy are you from the area? I have been in the local scene for 10 years now. I know the scene well even if the scene dosn't know me.....(I am somewhat of a VW loner). I have no direct experiance with Revolks but that is because I have had so many of their past customers say "Stay away".
| Quote: |
I know ReVolks does a lot of work and has performed numerous restorations. Many people usually criticize Jeff for taking a long time, but he is a master with metal.
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I have never first hand seen any of his bare metal body work....... have you? I would like to see pics. However If he can work metal well that does not mean he knows how to rebuild an engine or knows how to run a buissiness. |
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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| vwtoyguy wrote: |
Icy are you from the area? I have been in the local scene for 10 years now. I know the scene well even if the scene dosn't know me.....(I am somewhat of a VW loner). I have no direct experiance with Revolks but that is because I have had so many of their past customers say "Stay away".
| Quote: |
I know ReVolks does a lot of work and has performed numerous restorations. Many people usually criticize Jeff for taking a long time, but he is a master with metal.
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I have never first hand seen any of his bare metal body work....... have you? I would like to see pics. However If he can work metal well that does not mean he knows how to rebuild an engine or knows how to run a buissiness. |
Yes, I have seen Jeff's work and I have dealt with he and his wife. Both are very pleasant people. However, I haven't seen any of your work, nor have I dealt with you.
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vwtoyguy
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2005
Posts: 344
Location: West Fork, AR
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Icy wrote: |
Yes, I have seen Jeff's work and I have dealt with he and his wife. Both are very pleasant people. However, I haven't seen any of your work, nor have I dealt with you. |
Thats probaly because I have never worked on any VWs but my own (and most of that I have to farm out due to lack of time) and I have never sold any parts   |
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97gase
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2004
Posts: 47
Location: Fayetteville, AR
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, I have seen Jeff's work and I have dealt with he and his wife. Both are very pleasant people. However, I haven't seen any of your work, nor have I dealt with you. |
I never complained about Jeff's metal work. At the begining they were very nice, BUT when the motor that Jeff REBUILT blew up, they got very defensive and rude. I'm glad that you had a positive experience with Revolks as they can do great body work. I'm just telling what happened to me in hopes that others will be careful when placing their VW's in the hands of others and spending their hard earned savings.
Get everything in writing. Ask around see what other people have encountered with a potential shop. Check with the Better Business Bureau. Check the forums. Don't pay anything until you have an invoice and proper title with a proper bill of sale. Save all written comunications (this means that a persons word might not mean anything these days). Get an estimate and demand to know if anything EXTRA comes up. Ask about a gaurantee for work performed.
Icy, it sounds like you are a local. If you want to see more come on over. I'll show you the e-mails, invoices, pics, even the actual car. You can see Jeff's brake work, metal work, and lack of engine work. I'll even fix you supper and we can talk about VW's. |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2003
Posts: 453
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:54 am Post subject: Re: Revolks and Jeff Hamilton are Crooks |
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Hi Volks,
Well, someone was nice enough to send a pleasant email advising that I should reply to this post so here goes...
Read on if you wish. I'll try to be brief and answer to anything in-between quotes...
| 97gase wrote: |
| This is a warning to all people who love VW’s. This past spring my wife and I were on the search for a VW Type 3. It needed to be something that was totally reliable to be cruised all summer, but could be a little rough on the body and interior to be in our price range. We wanted to spend around $2500 on the car and then fix it up as time and money allowed while still having a driver. After several leads fell through, I called a few local shops to see if they knew of such a car for sale. I spoke with Jeff Hamilton at Revolks in Gravette, AR. He said that they had a 67 Squareback that a customer had brought in the previous fall. It had been driven from Oklahoma to their shop and the previous owners had decided no to restore it and might want to sell it. The car was supposed to be a runner with some cosmetic problems and only a small spot of rust on the floor pan. When we went to see it the engine blew smoke badly and a lesser price was agreed upon. |
This is not correct.
Stephen did contact me and I responded advising him reVOLKS did not have anything matching his request. Here's HIS email request:
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On Tue, 2006-02-28 at 08:33 -0800, Stephen Brannan wrote:
> I'm looking for pre 1970 Type Three Fastback to be a daily driver. I
> have a budget of about $3000. Mechanical reliability and solid pans
> are top priority. Paint and interior can come later, but it can't be
> grungy inside. All I've found locally are projects for under $1K, but
> I currently don't have the time for getting one running. How far
> would $2K go toward you getting a project vehicle everyday drivable(20
> miles/day)? Or do you know of any Fasties for sale? Thanks.
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Here is my response in the same email:
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Hi Stephen,
I wish I could help but we don't have anything that matches that
description. We have a 1969 Squareback as the only pre-70 T3
available/for sale.
It is a driver with clear title and everything functions. Cost of that
one is $1800.
The amount to get a Vdub "daily driver" is really dependent upon the
actual vehicle in question. We've seen some that $2k (you listed this
amount below) would be more than sufficient, while others we've seen $2k
would only be a drop in the bucket to get it daily/reliable. Thus, once
you actually have the specific vehicle identified then you can determine
what would be required to make it a solid, daily driver.
If it's any consolation, you can always test drive the car you want to
buy and bring it by our shop for a pre-inspection to give you an idea of
what "that" Vdub might cost after the sale.
Let me know if that helps.
Thanks for contacting reVOLKS.com! I appreciate it 
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Stephen later responded and wanted to know more about the Squareback that was at our shop... I told him I would post pictures to the web site so he could see the car in question and save himself a trip if it wasn't something he was interested in. He later responded that he was interested in this vehicle after seeing the pictures so I advised him I would try to do an inspection on the car to let him know what I thought about it....
I got the chance to do that inspection about a week later and replied to him with this in an email:
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Hey Stephen,
I got the squareback into the shop today and got all over and under it.
I put some gas into it as well so I could start it and run it and see
how everything operated.
I am very disappointed.
Many problems exist that we were not made aware of.
The engine is blowing oil. It was not apparent before because it didn't
have enough gas to run for any length of time.
After that I jacked the car up onto four jack stands so I could get
underneath it and look things over. The pans are rusted through in a few
places not just under the driver side front left as I saw from above and
before.
I'm sorry it took me so long to get all this detail man. Of course you
are welcome to come and look at it still but this vehicle (in my mind)
does not live-up to your request (reliable). Not that it couldn't be
repaired to that state but it's not there now.
Lemme know. I'll anticipate not seeing you on Friday as a result of
these findings if I don't hear from you between now and then.
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As you can see from my reply, I was not impressed. The vehicle was not what we had been told it was and it did not conform to his original request.
He decided he was still interested in the car and came by the shop to have a closer look for himself. He later sent me this email:
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On Fri, 2006-03-24 at 18:15 -0800, Stephen Brannan wrote:
> Hey Jeff,
> It was great visiting with you today and we decided that we want to
> buy the Squareback and have you get it driving. Now we just need to
> figure a price and determine what we will have you do on it. Do you
> want to sell it for a price as is and then charge time to fix it, or
> would you rather fix it and sell it as a running car. What would be
> cheapest/easiest, since you don't know what you will find? The main
> priorities to us are getting the motor reliable, getting the brakes
> working, and getting the pans fixed. The other stuff we would do as
> time/money allowed. Since this will be a car we would keep
> indefinitely I'd rather have the work done right over trying to save a
> few dollars today and I believe you share that thought. When do you
> think you could have it going by? Thanks.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was made clear to him at that visit that reVOLKS DID NOT own that car. It belonged to another person that had dropped it off at the shop the previous fall while I was out of town. So my decision to "sell the car as is" or "fix it and then sell it" were not valid since it didn't belong to us in the first place. I could only offer to work on it if he wanted me to which was against my previous emailed judgement based upon his original request and budget.
Still, Stephen did want the car and the current owner(s) were contacted and advised what was found to be problematic with their car. They determined that they could sell it for less than originally suggested to us based upon this information ( we told the owners that the T3 they left at the shop last fall had been found to have engine problems, brake problems and rusted-out pans as that was all we were aware of).
Whew! Still with me? Carry-on then:
| 97gase wrote: |
We gave $800 dollars and got a receipt and a forged bill of sale. |
"Forged bill of sale..." ?
What?
I dunno what this is supposed to mean?
Stephen was given a receipt that said reVOLKS had received $800 cash for the car he purchased. The title that is later-on in this email said to be forged also was the original title in the original owner's name that showed the original purchase price of $500 (I think it said $500, I forget now).
Just to be clear. By "original owner" I am not talking about the people that dropped the car at the shop the previous fall as they had never transfered the title into their names so "original" was an owner from years ago...
| 97gase wrote: |
We were sure to mention that we wanted the engine fixed, the brakes fixed and the small spot on the pan patched. Jeff assured us that our $2500 budget would be plenty to accomplish all this. Jeff was told and reminded several times to notify us if the cost might go over our budget. |
Standard policy at reVOLKS for all customers, not just Stephen, is that they get notified BEFORE any work is done and that the customer agrees to this work beforehand. This did not change for Stephen or his newly acquired Squareback. He was always notified in-advance of anything we found or discovered as a potential problem and he was asked how he wanted it handled..
Specifying a budget as many of you will all know and agree has little foundation on what the actual work will cost. I told him many times he could do certain things himself to save money - like replace the brake flex lines, bleed the brakes himself etc.
| 97gase wrote: |
Time passed and we received pictures and bills on a weekly basis for the work done. Everything seemed on track and we were excited to be getting a VW to drive. Then we stopped hearing from Revolks and began trying to contact them. |
Here again, I have no idea what Stephen is saying?
What I remember happening is he was sent an invoice -the frist one for parts orders and intial diagnostic work to determine what was up with his car and then he waffled on how to pay it. He wanted to drop it off at the shop which is fine but he didn't. Then it was going to be a check in the mail and it wasn't and then he was going to drop by the shop and pay cash and he finally did...
Well, what do you expect to have happen to your car's project schedule and parts orders when payment for previously invoiced work/parts is not made for two or three weeks?
I really don't know why Stephen would say this at all because that was the only time lapse. Every email, every invoice shows less than one week date separations.. I am Baffled by this one?
| 97gase wrote: |
When we finally got in touch. They said that they weren’t sure how much money we were in for, but that it was getting close and they would send the next bill. When we got the next bill it put the total at over $3000 and we weren’t notified until then, but they said it was almost done. The rust was worse than expected and the brakes needed more than what was initially figured. It would be just another week. So we continued, thinking that the end was near. Another week passed and it was still almost done. It needed just a little more work to finish rebuilding and installing the engine, so we progressed. We took the engine tin and sandblasted it and repainted it ourselves. I ask Jeff to give me an estimate of how much more time it would take. He said three hours tops, it was almost ready. |
Yes. Stephen did take the engine tins, sand blast them and paint them. Why? Because he was called on the phone and told that it would save him money if he could do that himself and return them for engine rebuilding. There was another example of the many ways he was advised on how to lessen the expense of restoring and repairing an old Vdub for which parts are rare and or expensive and so is the time if he had to pay someone to do it. It took almost three weeks and a few phone calls for those tins to be returned... Maybe that was the time lapse he referred to earlier?
Now at this point, (the tins being returned) the engine rebuilding had not begun. So I dunno where "3 hours tops..." comes from? Plus the brake job was not completed as it still needed to have the shoes adjusted and then bleed them - and Stephen didn't want to do any of that work himself to save his money either, like was suggested to him. Can anyone here rebuild an old engine in three hours? Not just assemble clean new parts but remove it from the car, dismantle it, clean every reused part for it, order new parts as found, assemble it and then test-run it and finally install it? Keep in mind we're talking about an older T3 engine not a Beetle.
I think "almost ready" as stated above has been taken out of context here. Geez. Almost ready is relative to an old and rare T3 restoration/work project.
| 97gase wrote: |
The next week the car was ready to be picked up and I ask how much more we owed. He told me that we were being charged for over 17 hours of labor. I was very upset, as I was expecting to only be charged for three hours. Apparently Jeff had forgotten several things. As a professional VW restoration shop that charges $55 per hour, 14 hours worth of work shouldn’t be “Forgotten.” |
Forgotten? Nothing was forgotten. That's just how long it took to finish all the items on the project list. A list which Stephen determined and then grew by adding things to do during the project like replace the steering wheel (if the one he brought in would work/fit).
| 97gase wrote: |
Hmm… that comes to an extra $770. My wife and I scrounged up the extra money and went to finally be done with Jeff and his wife Nadine. We showed up at their shop to collect the car and settle up. Jeff had conveniently forgotten to bring the last invoice that showed what had happened during those mysterious extra 14 hours. He said it was mostly carb work and that he had rebuilt them, but didn’t have the correct kits. Hmm… fishy… |
Stephen, you've mislead folks here entirely. You were told that we did not have the carb rebuild kits, that the carbs were old, original ones and were very problematic but I would have to order-in the rebuild kits and that would take time. You said you would rebuild them yourself... and here's where the problem comes-in with the engine.... Some time was spent trying to get them to sync-up well and other than that, there was no time spent on them other than to bolt them onto the engine along with all the rest of the original parts.
| 97gase wrote: |
I was frustrated and the car ran so I decided to cut my losses and pay the money. At this point we had paid Jeff over $5500 to do the work. |
Stephen? What invoicing are you looking at man?
It's hard not to get upset with this kind of misleading information.
I have no idea where you can total $5500 dollars from?
Even after you paid the final bill at the time you picked-up the car it was was $4200 which was only $1200 over your original $3000 budget you specified in an email because you saved money on the original purchase price. Every penny of those bills were approved of before the work was done by you. I repeatedly gave you ways to save money by doing work yourself; even offering to provide you with insight for any specific tasks you could do and you always asked for me to do it instead. The only exception was the tins being cleaned and painted.
| 97gase wrote: |
For this amount I expected to have a reliable driver. I was given the car, the title with a different owner and price than what was on the forged title, and an assurance that Jeff would email me the last invoice. At this point Jeff quickly closed up shop and left. |
At that point, I DID NOT "quickly close-up shop"... Stephen, you were late getting to the shop and I waited for you even though it meant being late for a previously made, personal appointment (read: DINNER at friends).
I showed you everything about the car that was done. We walked around it and provided you with pointers on how to deal with some of the body issues and answered many of your questions. I showed you the problem carbs again and advised you once again to get them replaced or rebuilt because they were not functioning well due to age. I told you that the first time when you were at the shop after the first inspection and showed you that the case had gasoline in it and that this was likely caused by the carbs way back then. There were other people at the shop that day who remember this Stephen. Don't you? When you said you were going to pick-up the car, you were told to bring a trailer given this issue and you said you didn't think you could get one...
| 97gase wrote: |
I got into the VW and started my way home. My wife and I agreed that we would put the mess behind us and enjoy the overpriced car. We drove about ten miles and I was elated to finally have a running VW after many years since the one I drove in high school. Suddenly the car started losing power and I felt very sick. The car died and I pulled over immediately. The car wouldn’t start and had gas in the oil. I called Jeff, but he was busy playing cards with friends and couldn’t help me that night. I ask what he was going to do to fix the situation. He offered to tie a rope around the bumper and drag it home the next day and that it probably just needed a new fuel pump. Since he had reused the old pump he would charge me to put on a new one and change the oil. I couldn’t spend more money paying him to fix anything so I borrowed a trailer and truck to bring it to my house.
|
Stephen, you're just grasping at straws now. I would never advise anyone to tow a Vdub by it's bumper with a rope. I wouldn't advise towing ANYTHING by a rope or attached to any automobile bumper. reVOLKS has tow bars for T1's and a trailer for T2's and T3's but it was not available then and I was not near the town you were in (30 miles from the shop).
It still leaves me baffled to this day as to why you could "borrow a trailer and truck" to take the car home yet not bring it the lesser distance back to the shop?
As for the parts. You were given the option to replace all parts during the rebuild. You accepted the camshaft, lifters, bearings, pistons and cylinders and seals. All of the external engine parts you said you could easily replace yourself as you had (during the work being done at reVOLKS) gone out and purchased several "doner" T3s of your own for this project (all while on some purported budget to us).
So what is expected of the shop now? That reVOLKS should pay for new parts and install them on your rebuilt engine for free? What shop would do that? Besides, you were assuming it was the fuel pump. It could have been but I could not tell that over the phone especially knowing the condition of the carbs.
| 97gase wrote: |
I changed the oil and put in a new fuel pump hoping to again have a running VW, but the oil filled with gas again and the car never left the driveway. Jeff said to try to rebuild the carbs. Hmm… what did I pay him to do? He then denied rebuilding them, but would send the last invoice. So I changed the oil and rebuilt the carbs. Apparently he hadn’t touched the carbs, but had spent 14 hours tuning them?!? The car, with newly rebuilt carbs ran great and I began preparing for the VW show in Eureka Springs, AR. On the Saturday of the show the VW was going to debut from the driveway. It got about 10 feet and the motor locked up SOLID!!! I was going through lots of emotions as I had paid Jeff at Revolks over $2500 for just the motor rebuild. We decided to just go and enjoy the day in Eureka. All our friends ask about the car not making it. We told the facts. I began trying to get in touch with Jeff. When I finally did he had skipped town and was in Canada. I told him the motor had locked up and He got very defensive. He completely denied rebuilding the engine and was not going to stand behind any of his work. |
Stephen. Are you really this fractured?
Not that my personal life is anyone's business but I was in Canada to help my aged father. I did not "skip town" as you suggest above. I actually missed the same Vdub show which I have never done before because of a family emergency.
So phuck you.
You called me after I had just completed a lengthy drive of over 1200 miles straight, non-stop under emergency conditions. I had not even slept and the phone rings with you on the phone. I couldn't remember the day before nevermind a couple of months before so forgive me for being asleep when you called. I later appologised for being asleep when you called and corrected myself over what had been done on your car.
I told you to bring the car in and I'd look at it. I repeatedly told you this over many phone calls that were to eventually wear-out my mobile phone's battery while I was away. What else would any other shop do? If there is a problem the shop has to see it to understand what happened and what went wrong in order to deal with the issue. You refused to bring the car into the shop. You expected me to "...come to your "driveway" to help fix the engine and we could eat hamburgers and make an afternoon of it.....".
Well, sorry man. I have a personal life that doesn't include working on other people's cars in their driveways over hamburgers on my weekends. That's not anything against you personally and I thought it was a nice offer but it's not the way business is done.
If your Ford breaks down, the dealership won't come to your driveway and eat hamburgers with you while trying to determine anything. You bring the car in and they will do what they can. reVOLKS is no different. It's not a hobby. It's a business.
| 97gase wrote: |
Hmmm… What is rebuilding a motor? It has a new cam, pistons, etc. I had even seen the case split open in his shop. We continued trying to get some kind of answer from Jeff and Nadine at Revolks. We ask if Revolks might even buy the car back for just a portion of the investment. |
I'll repeat this once again. reVOLKS did not previously (or ever) own the car in the first place. So why would they "buy it back". I advised you Stephen that the car was not as advertised to reVOLKS when it was dropped off and said it didn't comply with your request but you still wanted it because it then had a much lower price. My personal standing in the company or whether I own it or not is none of yours or anyone elses business. You can make any assumptions you want. I don't care.
| 97gase wrote: |
Jeff said that he was not the owner of Revolks and couldn’t buy the car back. Hmm… the shop is on his land but he doesn’t own it? We ask for the information from the person listed as the previous owner on the title and were refused. We have been refused the last invoice also. Jeff said that if we paid to have the car towed back to his shop that he would look at it for free, but we would be charged for any additional labor. Since I don’t have the means to transport the car, I offered to fix burgers if Jeff could just come to my house and check it out. He refused and claimed that I couldn’t possibly work on the motor in my garage since I had no lift. Hmm… How many VW owners do work without a lift? What an insult to so many people. |
I could say the same thing Stephen. What an insult to so many businesses and people. Have you actually had any business come to your home to help you with a hobby? Has anyone?
I don't have to have any idea of what your garage is capable of. It doesn't matter. What matters is I repeatedly told you about the carbs from the very beginning when I discovered gas in the engine case. I advised you to replace them as it was cheaper to do that than to rebuild aged, worn-out carbs. I work at reVOLKS with my tools and shop setup and not in your driveway as you offered like some home hobbiest might.
| 97gase wrote: |
He had no idea what my well equipped home garage is capable of. At this point we began corresponding with Jeff’s wife Nadine. She is extremely rude and has no value for Arkansas teachers. She doesn’t think they work very hard. |
So? What's your point here Stephen?
I don't think anyone else's opinion of any other profession matters here. The only point to be made is the lack of providing the good folks here with the truth about why Nadine became point-blank with you and Jodeen.
That is: After responding to ten emails in four days; Jodeen proceeded to become abusive, threatening and rude to Nadine because she didn't respond to the eleventh email in "a timely manner" according to Jodeen.
And since you brought it up. She didn't even know "Jodeen" was a teacher.
Nadine's "rude" response to your wife was:
"...I will spend another hour this day as well responding to yet another email from y'all, which is fine but don't scold me for not putting in the 12th hour today or any day...."
Oh yeah. And here I am again at 4:32AM responding to yet another of Stephen's childish whining emails after plugging a full day at work and have to be back at work tomorrow morning.... Hmmmmm. There's a pattern forming here isn't there? But this pattern ends here. I won't waste any more time saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again (there really should be about another 10 "overs" in there to be accurate in the count).
God forbid that i get "rude" now. I dunno how many times a person has to be asked to simply bring it back to the shop before they'll finally understand it?
| 97gase wrote: |
After giving up on Jeff Scamilton |
Oh. That's original. I almost laughed. It might just be slanderous given that it's now in print in a public forum. Did you ever think of that?
| 97gase wrote: |
, Nadine, and Revolks to do the right thing I started to disassemble the locked up motor. I found that the large washer that goes under the pulley bolt had been dropped under the pulley in the shrouding. The spark plugs didn’t match as some were Bosch and one was NGK. The #3 piston had the NGK and was shiny clean while the other pistons were discolored from actually firing. The #1 con rod had welded itself to the crank shaft.
|
Stephen. I guess we'll never know for certain what happened to your engine since you never once agreed to bring it back to me to look at it. You can say whatever you want here in a public forum and hide behind all of your misleading statements but here are the only facts I have to go on this issue:
- The engine slowed down and stopped on the road after you were told not to drive it.
- You would not bring the car back to the shop even when the shop was closer to the car than your home was at the time.
- You were repeatedly advised to bring it in and it would be looked at in good faith.
- You rebuilt the carbs, even asking me for help with it in an email.
- You drove the engine with gasoline in it for an unknown amount of time but at least 30 miles since that was where you broke down and that will cause all of the bearings and journals to gaul as shown in your pictures...
- Gas is NOT oil. Oil is a lubricant. Gas is not oil. Repeat this...
- You tried replacing the carbs before rebuilding a combined set you had acquired
- You posted to another list-serv about ..".. how you rebuilt your carbs and even convinced Jodeen that your car will run BUT after following instructions on a "carb kit" the problem is it's running crazy rich on one side......driver side carb has a considerably higher vacuum. So much that it's sucking gas from the over-flow tube....." (I can go on with this but it ends with "...wet with fuel and clouds coming forth..."
| 97gase wrote: |
I took all the parts to Paul at Bud’s Foreign Auto. Paul is GREAT! He was very helpful and appalled at my treatment at Revolks. |
Yeah. I would be too if it actually happened as you described Stephen but we both know it didn't happen anything like this. You're recollection of the events are totally lop-sided and obviously tainted by frustration.
| 97gase wrote: |
He showed me that the oil pickup tube was never installed properly and that it was sucking air. This was the reason for the engine failing and is the responsibility of Jeff and Revolks. I sent emails to both Jeff and Nadine telling them what happened and they refuse to answer me at this time. I have spent many hundreds of dollars since toward getting my motor running again. The work done at Revolks was of less than poor quality and the customer service even worse. I have been personally insulted, cussed at, and cheated by the Revolks people. |
Yeah. Right. You have been insulted and cussed at and cheated. Uh huh. 
Prove that.
I have every email. You have never been anything of the sort.
You are delusional at this point. I have no other explaination for that statement.
You never even gave reVOLKS or myself the opportunity to look at your engine even though you were told to bring it in soooooooo many times before. Why were you able to bring it to another shop later-on? You kept repeating the same sad story to me on the phone about not having any way to transport your car/engine YET you were able to buy and transport three other doner T3's home to your backyard. You were able to take your engine to another shop... I'm confused Stephen. Which is it? Did you have the chance and ability to bring it in or did you simply choose not to and want everyone to feel sorry for you and your old Vdub?
| 97gase wrote: |
I am posting this to help others not to fall into their trap as I have. I will provide any pictures, emails, and invoice copies that are requested. Jeff is a crook. |
What really has to be told to people is this:
- Don't get into a hobby that requires a personal and technical understanding if you aren't capable of doing it yourself -OR- you can't afford it.
- Listen to those that tell you "this car does not live up to your requirements as listed"
- If something goes wrong with anything you paid for, then take it back to the company you paid and give them a chance to resolve it.
- Don't later tell a company that you took the issue to another company who obviously wasn't told the whole story either and expect the first company to care.
- Don't whine on a public forum about how you were "cussed at and insulted" when you weren't.
There. Replied. Sorry it had to burn-off your morning coffee break.
_________________
jeff
http://www.revolks.com/ |
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