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nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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 Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| This bus sound amazingly similar to one sitting in Oregon, except that the Oregon one has a type 1 engine. The owner was unable to get it titled in OR because of the lack of VIN plates on the vehicle. None on the door frames and none behind the windshield. I will have to check behind the seat in the engine compartment the next time I see it. Pretty sure that the Mexican title was for the late 70's and not the 80's. It had a T4 engine bay, but with only a T1 engine in it. Were all Mexican AC vans built that way? At least some of the glass said hecho en Mexico. |
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glutamodo 
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26325
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Well, no one ever answered if they knew if VW ever distributed Buses in CKD - if they did, then it would be a German body they'd have shipped out.
But I still don't know about those misaligned numbers on the VIN. I have seen some a little off before but not quite like that. The asterisk after the number is right though, there's one on this example in the Gallery:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/293807.jpg |
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alpendubber
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2006
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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glutamodo,
Thanks for helping with this instead of bashing me. Maybe someone who knows more about CKD will chime in. I will also be finding out info that will make or break this mystery, hopefully tomorrow. |
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73kombi
Banned
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 1215
Location: ~The London Bridge, AZ~
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| alpendubber wrote: |
| Thanks for helping with this instead of bashing me. |
Well, it is the Samba.....Glad to see your getting some info Alpendubber.
Your story sounds completely plausible to me. Maybe some peeps don't understand the ammount of cash and influence in Aspen, CO. (the Beverly Hills of the Rockies)
I assume your gonna hang on to this bus..... and perhaps a honeymoon trip in the bus to Mexico?
peace |
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alpendubber
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2006
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Hey, that's not a bad idea...Honeymoon in Mexico.
I actually offered it for sale back to the original owner for what I have into it 4448.00. Either he will buy it back or give me documentation on its history.
If I'm keeping it we are planning a road trip from Glenwood to Phoenix for Christmas. Would be fun.
Here is the pic of the VIN under the drivers seat.
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Nica
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2005
Posts: 618
Location: Bogotá, Colombia
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| At first I was a little skeptical but now I think that this bus is easily a CKD and that many of you just don't want to accept the fact that his bus is legitimate and rare and probably worth more then 4448,by the way why the strange sale price?4500 |
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Nica
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2005
Posts: 618
Location: Bogotá, Colombia
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Wait a minute this could complicate the situation but what if the bus was built in Mexico, the parts for the motor where imported, and that it has an engine number, which in most cars has nothing to do with the VIN? 
Last edited by Nica on Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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alpendubber
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2006
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Nica,
My price is what I paid for it plus 48 for title fee's. This price is what I offered to sell it back to someone in the group of friends in Aspen who may want it back. I also listed it at 4500 on ebay but ended the auction until I get to the bottom of this. I heard no info today...hopefully this week. If I get some sort of signed documents proving what it is, it will go one of two ways. Sell back to the original owner ( who hasn't owned it since 02, it has changed hands twice.), or list it on Ebay again or ???? |
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nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Nica wrote: |
| Wait a minute this could complicate the situation but what if the bus was built in Mexico, the parts for the motor where imported, and that it has an engine number, which in most cars has nothing to do with the VIN? |
Nica, this wouldn't affect the VIN. The lack of VIN on the dash and the altered VIN on the body in the engine compartment is what will cause any potentional owners problems. Many states won't register that sort of vehicle. Some don't pay much attention. The fact that VW of Mexico didn't make busses until 1980 is something we know. Not sure if a DMV will know that info.
I thought we were in for a legitimate discussion. Instead, I see know that this was merely a marketing attempt to sell a "rare" bus for its perceived high value. Thus the vested interest in claiming it must be the VW equivalent of a unicorn.
_________________
Ohio Valley Tribe, Full Moon Bus Club https://www.facebook.com/groups/294422277314227/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FullMoonBusClub
RIP Bob Hoover https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427791
Hoover Sermons: https://www.vwsage.com/images/vwsage/Bob%20Hoovers%20Sermons.pdf |
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nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
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alpendubber
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2006
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Nemo,
This is a serious discussion or you would not keep coming back. If it is indeed what myself and some others believe, you are really gonna look like a dumbass. Food for thought.
I have spent years of my life buying, driving and selling rare vehicles. So, when an ad comes up in the paper for a 77 Bus with 36k km's on it, it raises a red flag to go look at it. Sometimes it's nothing as you think, sometimes it IS something really rare that people like yourself and others may be into. I offered it on Ebay for 4600.00 even gave my reserve in the listing. You were the first ass to jump up and say I was into selling stolen vehicles.  So, with that said, if I get some documentation and put it up for sale someone will buy it for what it is if your happy or not.
Last edited by alpendubber on Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:44 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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dwill49965
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1396
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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Alpendubber - Did you ever find the M-code plate? Located under the dash, driver's side, sitting on top of the curved air duct tube, above and forward of the fuse box.
I believe that deciphering it would go a long way to solving this mystery (unless it is not there).
_________________
Darryl
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'78 Westy, Boston Bob built 2.0 L, FI, MSD 6A
| Meyer wrote: |
| Lastly, you just referred to US citizens as 'Americans'. Exactly what kind of Canadian are you? From what continent? |
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alpendubber
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2006
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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dwill,
No M-code plate. I did order a "Birth Cert". |
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dwill49965
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1396
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
| Well, no one ever answered if they knew if VW ever distributed Buses in CKD - if they did, then it would be a German body they'd have shipped out. |
Yes, they did. There's an entire chapter (chapter 10, 3 pages) on in it in the book "VW and Transporter Specification Guide 1967-1979" by Vincent Molnaar and Alexander Prinz.
The CKD program for Mexico was from '75-'77, T2 panelvan. Also, Mexico built Type 2's for their home market starting 1 Oct 1971 until 1996.
_________________
Darryl
--------------
'78 Westy, Boston Bob built 2.0 L, FI, MSD 6A
| Meyer wrote: |
| Lastly, you just referred to US citizens as 'Americans'. Exactly what kind of Canadian are you? From what continent? |
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nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| alpendubber wrote: |
| You were the first ass to jump up and say I was into selling stolen vehicles. So, with that said, if I get some documentation and put it up for sale someone will buy it for what it is if your happy or not. |
Nope, I wasn't the first to jump up. Re-read the thread. All I did was tell you the obvious, no VIN on the windshield and a fabricated VIN on the engine deck is going to get you much attention from law enforcement and are commonly used tactics of thieves. And that false docs are a dime a dozen in Mexico. Some clowns on these lists who try to buy titles and vin plates or get a mail order title etc. It's pretty common even here. I see Mexican VW's every day. They have VIN plates, even the old ones.
You found an obviously valid VIN under the seat, so it appears to be the correct number for the body. Still no good answer for the missing VIN plate on the windshield or the homemade VIN on the rear engine compartment. Why would these have been removed? I cannot even brainstorm a reason.
And, of course, no T4 engined vehicles were manufactured outside of Germany.
You claimed that you though it was an early Hecho in Mexico bus, not a German bus. That's an entirely different proposition than a German bus that was sold in Mexico.
Still no reasonable explanation for the interior and glass saying Hecho en Mexico. Obviously, VW of M didn't have a supply of glass and interiors just sitting around waiting for the VWAG tooling to be shipped to Mexico. I still believe the interior and glass was swapped in at a later date and that the body game from Germany.
Anyway, I never said you were "into stolen vehicles". It's clear you were just passing on the information you were given. Sorry if I implied otherwise.
_________________
Ohio Valley Tribe, Full Moon Bus Club https://www.facebook.com/groups/294422277314227/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FullMoonBusClub
RIP Bob Hoover https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427791
Hoover Sermons: https://www.vwsage.com/images/vwsage/Bob%20Hoovers%20Sermons.pdf
Last edited by nemobuscaptain on Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:52 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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dwill49965
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1396
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| alpendubber wrote: |
dwill,
No M-code plate. I did order a "Birth Cert". |
I went back and found a place in the book (page 17) where it talks about "missing plates" (meaning M-code plates).
"Busses assembled in factories overseas do not have an M-plate. The holes are there, but for some unkown reason, the plates were never fitted."
_________________
Darryl
--------------
'78 Westy, Boston Bob built 2.0 L, FI, MSD 6A
| Meyer wrote: |
| Lastly, you just referred to US citizens as 'Americans'. Exactly what kind of Canadian are you? From what continent? |
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dwill49965
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1396
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| nemobuscaptain wrote: |
| Still no good answer for the missing VIN plate on the windshield ... |
Nemo - I've found two busses (both wrecks, a '75 and a '70) in NS without dash mounted VIN plates - and no rivet holes to indicate one was ever mounted there. Obviously, they were imported from Europe at some point, and were legally registered vehicles (in Canada). But yes, it could be suspicious, and like you said earlier, some States would care, others not.
_________________
Darryl
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'78 Westy, Boston Bob built 2.0 L, FI, MSD 6A
| Meyer wrote: |
| Lastly, you just referred to US citizens as 'Americans'. Exactly what kind of Canadian are you? From what continent? |
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nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
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nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| dwill49965 wrote: |
| The CKD program for Mexico was from '75-'77, T2 panelvan. |
Obviously, it isn't a panelvan
| Quote: |
| Also, Mexico built Type 2's for their home market starting 1 Oct 1971 until 1996. |
Hmmm. This doesn't jibe with the other info I've seen, but if it would explain a Mexican interior and glass even if in a German T4 engined bus body. And the 71 year would make sense because the 68-71 tooling would be available, but obviously they would look like a late 77 German bus.
| Quote: |
| Nemo - I've found two busses (both wrecks, a '75 and a '70) in NS without dash mounted VIN plates - and no rivet holes to indicate one was ever mounted there. Obviously, they were imported from Europe at some point, and were legally registered vehicles (in Canada). |
I've never seen or heard of a Euro bus without a VIN plate on the dash.
What does Vince say about the VIN plates?
_________________
Ohio Valley Tribe, Full Moon Bus Club https://www.facebook.com/groups/294422277314227/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FullMoonBusClub
RIP Bob Hoover https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427791
Hoover Sermons: https://www.vwsage.com/images/vwsage/Bob%20Hoovers%20Sermons.pdf
Last edited by nemobuscaptain on Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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