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Blaubus
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2003
Posts: 5153
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 Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: new liquid cooled T1 heads? |
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i dont know if this has been posted here yet. i think its a fairly good idea for severe conditions (with a fan)/ high CR survivability/higher gearing/better mileage/interior heat... have a look and offer opinions:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=417999
Last edited by Blaubus on Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bugman Jeff
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Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 636
Location: Evansville, WI
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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I've been working on something similar, but havent gotten past the paper stage.
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Blaubus
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2003
Posts: 5153
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| i think the cylinders need a real cooling system. 350F up hill at 90F air temp is too high. it also amazed me that he would use passive cooling on a 2.3 liter. the heads look excellent- the job just needs to be finished. |
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Eaallred
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 5756
Location: West Valley City, Utah
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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The cylinders wouldn't be to much of a concern of mine, there should be enough air flowing around them to keep them happy. They're cast iron, they can take some heat.
My problem is the intake manifolds.
1. They are steel. If you're carbureted, then it's going to be a pain to drive in cold weather. (remember the $hitty steel kad manifolds?)
2. Look at the angle the carbs sit at. No way you're going to get an accurate float level with them like that. And without an accurate float level, kiss accurate jetting good bye.
But, I have seen the heads in person. They're pretty nice, but the dual plug design looked like it would hinder some of the performance if you're looking to work the chamber a bit.
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Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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bajabugman66
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Joined: November 02, 2006
Posts: 612
Location: Clearwater BC
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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There goes your cylinder cooling. Wouldnt taking the fan away and using these heads make the cylinders really hot and the heads really cool result n some cracks and warping somwhere?
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my65bug
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Joined: September 04, 2003
Posts: 66
Location: Danville, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Kind of interesting to see what the flow numbers are for that head. |
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Blaubus
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2003
Posts: 5153
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:13 am Post subject: |
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what also concerned me was the "psuedo engineer" inference i drew from some of the hype within the ad about eliminating the "25hp fan". first, i dont think it uses 25hp. (or maybe only when at 8000 RPM in 0 degree temps at sea level  ) second it should be considered that the water pump will draw the same, even with passive cylinder cooling. the pump is electrically driven, but since the genny is making the electric, it taxes the engine just the same as if it were tied right in with a belt.
i also read somewhere that air cooling is the most efficient way to cool regarding energy used to move the coolant. because the temperature gradient is higher between air and fin, as compared to water and head, you have to move more water weightwise- which takes more energy from the engine. |
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Yellowbeard
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Joined: March 07, 2006
Posts: 2288
Location: At large again...
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| dansvans wrote: |
| i also read somewhere that air cooling is the most efficient way to cool regarding energy used to move the coolant. because the temperature gradient is higher between air and fin, as compared to water and head, you have to move more water weightwise- which takes more energy from the engine. |
Just to play devil's advocate here for a minute:
Water is a much better conductor of heat than air. It seems like even a relatively inefficient water cooling system would be able to outcool an air-cooled system. Anybody?
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| Lohe wrote: |
| Thanks. Thread went from me not being able to understand what Ipis was saying because English is obviously not his first language to me not being able to understand it because English is my first language |
Fuel pumps galore:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=845378 |
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jamestwo
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Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 2203
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: |
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If I was going to do that, I would just run a waterboxer and call it a day.
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jamestwo
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Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 2203
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: |
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If I was going to do that, I would just run a subaru and call it a day.
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Blaubus
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2003
Posts: 5153
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| a relatively inefficient water cooling system would be able to outcool an air-cooled system |
relatively inefficient as water cooled systems go ? or as compared to air cooled? and yes efficient at conducting heat from metal, but still, how efficient to move the water/ per quantity of heat removed?
it seems to me that water cooled systems are not chosen because it drags the engine less. water is chosen for its density which translates into its CAPACITY to conduct lots of heat fast from the cylinder heads, not necessarily its EFFICIENCY at removing heat per unit of energy used to move the coolant- problem with aircooled heads is that the fins and air cannot conduct heat away from the chamber FAST enough to prevent metallurgical damage to the valve and seat. this where denser coolants shine.
i would think, the best measure of efficiency at removing heat from the metal is to measure the the inlet and outlet temps of both air and water, and compare. this would yield the results of many factors taken together: surface area of metal to coolant , temperature gradient, conductivity of the coolant and even turbulence.
Last edited by Blaubus on Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Blaubus
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Joined: October 25, 2003
Posts: 5153
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If I was going to do that, I would just run a subaru and call it a day. |
yes, but then you would have to deal with head gasket problems. |
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