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Bottomend
Grease
Joined: September 20, 2003
Posts: 1500
Location: Smell Aye! via Nude Hamster!
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 Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:19 pm Post subject: I cant take it anymore! I'm loosing my mind!!!!! |
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My stupid new Electric Fuel pump HAS to go. It sounds like mechanical sheep being feed into a wood chipper while trying to swallow an Eli Whitney approved cotton gin.
I hooked up my old mechanical pump and it was leaking gas. It supplied fuel to the carbs though so at least I know it can work.
My pump has the stock part that goes into the case and then the "upper" part ( the part that sticks out fromt he case and has the two inlet/outlet tubes) is from a bug. I saw rebuild kits on line at OEM VW. Is this all I need?
Also, I need to adjust the fuel pressure. I've read that I need to add more shims/gaskets. Does anybody know how many to get 1.5 lbs fuel pressure? |
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ratwell
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003
Posts: 8717
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Is this the CB performance pump I recommended to you?
_________________
'78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
Read the Baywindow FAQ
Last edited by ratwell on Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bottomend
Grease
Joined: September 20, 2003
Posts: 1500
Location: Smell Aye! via Nude Hamster!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:04 am Post subject: |
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the electric pump is the Facet. bought it at Napa. The same one everyone sells everywhere. yuck! I litterally can't hear the engine while driveing around town. This thing is a monster! I swear, it's comming to get me! I'm next!!!!
I''m a little confused about the rebuild parts becasue I have a mutant pump. Part T4, part ...T1 alternator version? It look like the pix on the OEMVw site matched up but I'm still not sure. |
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keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19395
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| where do you have the facet mounted? it sounds like it is not low enough... they need to be well below the tank.... they do not "suck" the fuel very well.... they need gravity feed, then they push it just fine. |
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ratwell
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003
Posts: 8717
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| Bottomend wrote: |
| the electric pump is the Facet. bought it at Napa. The same one everyone sells everywhere. yuck! I litterally can't hear the engine while driveing around town. This thing is a monster! I swear, it's comming to get me! I'm next!!!! |
I said it was a POS and they cost too much. Maybe it is up too high but I'd still never buy one.
| Quote: |
| I''m a little confused about the rebuild parts becasue I have a mutant pump. Part T4, part ...T1 alternator version? It look like the pix on the OEMVw site matched up but I'm still not sure. |
Which site? 72-74 pump rebuild kits are hard to find.
_________________
'78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
Read the Baywindow FAQ |
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keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19395
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:54 am Post subject: |
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LOL, yeah.... the CB pump is supposed to be a great one... I have heard good things about it.
as far as Facet being expensive POS... well.... I have never had to buy one. Seems they always show up in a box of "donated" parts or are found new in the package under the hood or are installed on some super I am parting out  . |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:23 am Post subject: Re: I cant take it anymore! I'm loosing my mind!!!!! |
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| Bottomend wrote: |
My stupid new Electric Fuel pump HAS to go. It sounds like mechanical sheep being feed into a wood chipper while trying to swallow an Eli Whitney approved cotton gin.
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I mounted my fuel pump to the top of the transaxle, there is a hole along the upper ridge that will allow to mount it securely. It is just below the tank outlet, which the pump likes as well, so it can blow instead of suck, shut up filthy mind, and it is nicely isolated from the body resonance via engine/transaxle mounts, and it is the safest place to put it for serious off-roading on boulder/gravel-strewn paths. 1.5 psi, is that the correct inlet pressure for your carbs? I thought neoprene needle valve seats liked a little bit more than that in order to close definitively.
Colin |
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Duncwarw
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2003
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:40 pm Post subject: Pump |
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I too bought the NAPA pump, but mine is nowhere near as loud as you describe. I've had two of them now over the years but from what I read here and elsewhere the Carter rotary seems recommended. I'm glad I came in from the cold just now because I had no idea that Facet pump needs to be mounted low. That might explain a few things.
FWIW, I mounted mine on the cover plate between the engine and the tank with a couple of rubber pads under the crews. It's not even audible with the engine running. When I get done with the Kool Patch, etc. I doubt I'll even hear the engine!!!
Thank's for the tip on pump mounting, etc. I think I'm switching to Carter or something similar.
Paul
PS; I read somewhere recently that the Facet is too high pressure and too little volume. |
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Duncwarw
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2003
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:57 pm Post subject: Pump |
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I too bought the NAPA pump, but mine is nowhere near as loud as you describe. I've had two of them now over the years but from what I read here and elsewhere the Carter rotary seems recommended. I'm glad I came in from the cold just now because I had no idea that Facet pump needs to be mounted low. That might explain a few things.
FWIW, I mounted mine on the cover plate between the engine and the tank with a couple of rubber pads under the crews. It's not even audible with the engine running. When I get done with the Kool Patch, etc. I doubt I'll even hear the engine!!!
Thank's for the tip on pump mounting, etc. I think I'm switching to Carter or something similar.
Paul
PS; I read somewhere recently that the Facet is too high pressure and too little volume. |
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whip618
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 761
Location: Albuquerque
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Bottomend, I told you those facet pumps were noisey and you could
have bought a CB rotory for about seven or eight dollars more. The last
facet I used was mounted like the Skeptic described and I still thought it
was loud. Good luck.
Phil |
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ratwell
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003
Posts: 8717
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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The Facet pump is the only one endorsed by Spinal Tap, England's Loudest Band(tm).
"Wha, 009?, Our distributors go to eleven".
_________________
'78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
Read the Baywindow FAQ |
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keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19395
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| ratwell wrote: |
The Facet pump is the only one endorsed by Spinal Tap, England's Loudest Band(tm).
"Wha, 009?, Our distributors go to eleven". |
ROFLMAO! nice one Richard!  
Where ever I mount the pump I use those fat oil cooler seals out of a type 1 gasket kit that do not seem to fit any application I've ever seen... they make great insulators. I never noticed them being loud except when they are starving for fuel....  |
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ratwell
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003
Posts: 8717
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Good idea. The FI pump, which is quiet to begin with, even has a thick rubber mount to isolate it from the frame.
_________________
'78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
Read the Baywindow FAQ |
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Duncwarw
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2003
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:43 pm Post subject: An Aside |
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I decided I didn't like the look of that rubber fuel line hanging vertically off the bottom of the tank. I doubt this is standard, but on my van there was no clamp.
I read a Hoover thing about using "aircraft quality" flexible metal fuel line to prevent your van from becoming an incendiary device.
I took the outlet off the tank, made the hole a little larger. then I cut a piece of metal brake/fuel line and got a washer the size of the ID of the "outlet nut" and welded them together. After buggering about with it for a while, I got it to install and not leak.
With my Facet installed high on the "firewall" and the old rubber line in place, I noticed my see-through filter always ran about half full. Now, it's full all the time. the only real change is the ID of the feed pipe.
Now the question. Is there any reason NOT to use metal line? I don't recall seeing many American cars light up. Even my first car (a '66 Bel Aire) had metal fuel lines. Also, I think I'll need to have some portion of the feed in flexible pipe because of drive train movement. Am I right? If so, where should it be flexible? Hoover's article says the failure occurs where the rubber hose gets "hack sawed" by the sheet metal.
Thanks! |
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ratwell
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003
Posts: 8717
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: An Aside |
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| Duncwarw wrote: |
| Now the question. Is there any reason NOT to use metal line? I don't recall seeing many American cars light up. Even my first car (a '66 Bel Aire) had metal fuel lines. |
The simple problem with the VW is that because the engine compartment has to be sealed the fuel lines have to run on top of the engine. Further, right below the engine the entire exhaust system that's super hot. It's a deadly fire combination when it fails.
To be fair, hasn't many an american car caught fire in the gigantic air cleaner and burned down?
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| Also, I think I'll need to have some portion of the feed in flexible pipe because of drive train movement. Am I right? If so, where should it be flexible? |
Perhaps you could follow the improvements that VW made to the FI busses to begin with:
- couple inches of hose from tank
- metal line towards pump in L shape
- more hose to make U-bend from hard line around to the filter/pump
- hose from pump up to firewall and thru (with firewall mods to protect hose).
I left out a small metal piece that goes between the pump and firewall but that's something for you to consider.
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| Hoover's article says the failure occurs where the rubber hose gets "hack sawed" by the sheet metal. |
Hard line or hose, you still need to buffer it from the sheet metal of the firewall (or breast tin as Hoover calls it).
_________________
'78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
Read the Baywindow FAQ
Last edited by ratwell on Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Duncwarw
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2003
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:08 pm Post subject: Excellent! |
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Richard,
Thank you Sir!
Those images really help in envisioning what to do. Having only ever had this '73, a '73 Type 181, a '67 Type III, and a '67 Campmobile, I have nothing newer to compare this beast to. Now that I listed my VWs, I wish I still had them all! Clearly, the later vans had a better system.
Paul |
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