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campingbox 
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000
Posts: 10196
Location: Petaluma, CA
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 Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| tlaama wrote: |
| campingbox wrote: |
| bastardbus wrote: |
| campingbox wrote: |
| Here's little Tom Avrutis sitting on top of his familys bus. I know that aluminum basket wasn't strong enough to hold an adult. |
Yeah there is NO WAY that ladder was designed to be used like that....I am sure you would agree. The panels where those legs are sitting have ZERO structure or support behind them. I am gonna bet you Tom would NOT climb up a ladder in that position on any of his buses now! :lol:
Again I am sure the scenario is something as I described earlier... |
I agree, but I'd bet Tom's father went down and asked for a ladder, and this is what the dealership sold him. I don't think Westfalia ever offered or prouced a ladder.....and the dealerships not wanting to miss out on accessory sales, were eager to "make something work". |
Well Greg, I asked my dad about the ladder and he said it came with the bus. He is 87 but memory not bad. So I asked my mom who is 76 and has a good memory and she said the ladder came with the bus. She also said she paid $ 1900 for it. They bought it off the showroom floor.
Still it could have been an accessory added by the dealer but seems alot of those ladders out there. Joe Crockett ought to have some idea as he has the ladder with his flipseat and has been known to have original invoices around. Tom |
Hey Tom-
$1900 woud have been pretty cheap for a '63 so-33. Maybe they traded in something else? If you're Dad was anything like you I bet he walked into the showroom and demanded a fully loaded camper. "One of everything".
Greg |
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tlaama
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2004
Posts: 289
Location: Sarasota ,Florida
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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"Hey Tom-
$1900 woud have been pretty cheap for a '63 so-33. Maybe they traded in something else? If you're Dad was anything like you I bet he walked into the showroom and demanded a fully loaded camper. "One of everything".
Greg[/quote]
Funny guy Greg, though there could be some truth in that . But if my dad was really like me he would have gotton at least two so-33's.
There is something odd about those ladders. I have 2 styles that are almost exactly the same as they hang off the rack and are the same length. The first rung at the top is at a little different height but otherwise the same. One of the ladders have a little VW logo and the other doesn't. I have no idea why. |
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bastardbus
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Joined: July 13, 2000
Posts: 1768
Location: Toledo, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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I recall buses were about $2000 and westys 2800-2900 in the late 50s-early 60s era. An example....
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campingbox
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000
Posts: 10196
Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| bastardbus wrote: |
I recall buses were about $2000 and westys 2800-2900 in the late 50s-early 60s era. An example....
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The original owner of my '56 said he paid $3200 for it in 1955. |
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bastardbus
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Joined: July 13, 2000
Posts: 1768
Location: Toledo, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| campingbox wrote: |
| bastardbus wrote: |
| I recall buses were about $2000 and westys 2800-2900 in the late 50s-early 60s era. An example.... |
The original owner of my '56 said he paid $3200 for it in 1955. |
You know back in the late `50s early `60s those westys were not cheap vehciles. Interesting to look at it this to $2000 for a kombi $3000 for one outfitted by westfalia, in todays terms that would probably equate to $20,000 for a bare vehicle and $30,000 for the westfalia outiftted vehicle.
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campingbox
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000
Posts: 10196
Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| bastardbus wrote: |
| campingbox wrote: |
| bastardbus wrote: |
| I recall buses were about $2000 and westys 2800-2900 in the late 50s-early 60s era. An example.... |
The original owner of my '56 said he paid $3200 for it in 1955. |
You know back in the late `50s early `60s those westys were not cheap vehciles. Interesting to look at it this to $2000 for a kombi $3000 for one outfitted by westfalia, in todays terms that would probably equate to $20,000 for a bare vehicle and $30,000 for the westfalia outiftted vehicle. |
Dale said it took months to come into the dealership as well. He was pissed he had to pay more than retail and had to wait several months for it to come in. I bet he read about it in Popular Mechanics. |
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gizmo
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Joined: August 02, 2003
Posts: 142
Location: Amersham and South Coast UK.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: |
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I have just had a look in an SO42 manual, and there is no mention of a ladder which goes with the rack.
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j b1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| what about the kind of rack that sits in your rain gutter and rest's on your tire is it a real westfalia rack? |
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bastardbus
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Joined: July 13, 2000
Posts: 1768
Location: Toledo, Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| gizmo wrote: |
I have just had a look in an SO42 manual, and there is no mention of a ladder which goes with the rack.
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That is no suprize...
I have been a westfalia freak off and on since about `87, long before it was cool. I did a westy newsletter for a couple years in the early `90s. I had a very good friend Michael Steinke who ran the Westfalia Register as well as an Author of several VW books. Michael has access to Westfalia's own personal archives. With Michaels help, I have seen about every piece of westy lit that was printed over the years. I will say I have never seen one piece of Westfalia literature that has shown a ladder or mentioned a ladder as an option. If there was a ladder included or available from Westfalia it would have surely been mentioned in Westfalia brochures. They are quite meticulous to mention every part that comes with the camper kit, from water jugs to tumberls, toilet, stove and even the wash basin and obviously the rack and tent. I can not imagine why they would see fit to omit the ladder in every single piece of literture.
If you take a peek in the archives of the samba you will notice a couple VW Accesory Brochures that show the very metal ladders we speak of which is always included on the split era metal roof racks. Here is an example...
Now obviously anything is possible a westfalia ladder "could" exsist. I have never seen a brochure with the rackrack cover found on Merz' old walk through but I know of another and both of those are documented from Westfalia via a price list. So a westfalia ladder could have exsisted but from the evidence shown I would say it is a 99% chance no.
The ladders in question here were VW issue which is obvious from the literature above and probably stuck with the Westfalia after the fact by the dealerhsip or upon owners request.
P.S. Lind mentions seeing some VWOA literature that lists a ladder available. As most know, VWOA was an entity all to itself in some ways and manufactured accessories that were not officially sanctioned by Volkswagen. We have all seen the examples such as elephant ear and HUGE truck mirrors as well as the Campmobile Campers etc.
I owned a very low mileage documented `67 so-42 years back that the original owner order several of the VWOA camper accessories for the bus. The bus came with that VWOA brochure that is probable the one Lind speaks of. Here is a picture of that bus and ladder. The ladder was solid round steel stock, bolted permanently under the rear wheel well and attached into the rain gutter via legs and a turnbuckle, it also had 2 supports that rested on the beltline. VERY very sturdy and was not attached to the rack in anyway. The bus also had these VWOA front steps that slid out when you opened the front doors similar to ambulance steps. Here is pics of the bus with that VWOA ladder.
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tlaama
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2004
Posts: 289
Location: Sarasota ,Florida
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| bastardbus wrote: |
| gizmo wrote: |
I have just had a look in an SO42 manual, and there is no mention of a ladder which goes with the rack.
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That is no suprize...
I have been a westfalia freak off and on since about `87, long before it was cool. I did a westy newsletter for a couple years in the early `90s. I had a very good friend Michael Steinke who ran the Westfalia Register as well as an Author of several VW books. Michael has access to Westfalia's own personal archives. With Michaels help, I have seen about every piece of westy lit that was printed over the years. I will say I have never seen one piece of Westfalia literature that has shown a ladder or mentioned a ladder as an option. If there was a ladder included or available from Westfalia it would have surely been mentioned in Westfalia brochures. They are quite meticulous to mention every part that comes with the camper kit, from water jugs to tumberls, toilet, stove and even the wash basin and obviously the rack and tent. I can not imagine why they would see fit to omit the ladder in every single piece of literture.
If you take a peek in the archives of the samba you will notice a couple VW Accesory Brochures that show the very metal ladders we speak of which is always included on the split era metal roof racks. Here is an example...
Now obviously anything is possible a westfalia ladder "could" exsist. I have never seen a brochure with the rackrack cover found on Merz' old walk through but I know of another and both of those are documented from Westfalia via a price list. So a westfalia ladder could have exsisted but from the evidence shown I would say it is a 99% chance no.
The ladders in question here were VW issue which is obvious from the literature above and probably stuck with the Westfalia after the fact by the dealerhsip or upon owners request.
P.S. Lind mentions seeing some VWOA literature that lists a ladder available. As most know, VWOA was an entity all to itself in some ways and manufactured accessories that were not officially sanctioned by Volkswagen. We have all seen the examples such as elephant ear and HUGE truck mirrors as well as the Campmobile Campers etc.
I owned a very low mileage documented `67 so-42 years back that the original owner order several of the VWOA camper accessories for the bus. The bus came with that VWOA brochure that is probable the one Lind speaks of. Here is a picture of that bus and ladder. The ladder was solid round steel stock, bolted permanently under the rear wheel well and attached into the rain gutter via legs and a turnbuckle, it also had 2 supports that rested on the beltline. VERY very sturdy and was not attached to the rack in anyway. The bus also had these VWOA front steps that slid out when you opened the front doors similar to ambulance steps. Here is pics of the bus with that VWOA ladder.
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Todd, where do you think these ladders that we see so often come from and why do some have the VW logo? We had one that one way or another came with our 62 bus.
By the way I cross examined my Mother on the $ 1900 sales price and she said she must have financed the $ 1900 after a deposit was put down. Pretty amusing financing $ 1900 on a new vehicle. |
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bastardbus
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2000
Posts: 1768
Location: Toledo, Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| tlaama wrote: |
| bastardbus wrote: |
If you take a peek in the archives of the samba you will notice a couple VW Accesory Brochures that show the very metal ladders we speak of which is always included on the split era metal roof racks. Here is an example...
...The ladders in question here were VW issue which is obvious from the literature above and probably stuck with the Westfalia after the fact by the dealerhsip or upon owners request.
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Todd, where do you think these ladders that we see so often come from and why do some have the VW logo? We had one that one way or another came with our 62 bus. |
They are indeed VW ladders built by GHE and some other companies for VW and specifically the metal roof racks...see my quoted info from previous post above for actuall VW literature showing this. These ladders are INDEED plentiful and all over and 100% VW issue but not a "Westfalia built" item.
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kintail
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Joined: January 01, 2003
Posts: 595
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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That ladder position on the brochure is just as nuts as sticking it on the top aluminum bar of an OG Westy rack. Having the middle legs support themselves against glass......
Wow  I'd be paying "a bendy little man" to unload/load for the inevitable fall....Even if you put it on the side you have the legs resting against non-reinforced panel metal? Somethings just not right......
If you look at the '66 the middle legs rest against the curved belt line which has a lot more strength....... just like my Sharp "gutter ladder" on my OG Westy rack. The ladders may not be a Westy accessory, I agree, but there is info somewhere that maybe somebody can find the true story on....
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kintail
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Joined: January 01, 2003
Posts: 595
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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On second look ...... maybe if they put the ladder on the bottom bar of the rack then it might work. But I would use the sides for the bottom supports to hit the tire....
Wonder if the ad agency got sued by somebody placing the ladder as shown.. 
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bastardbus
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Joined: July 13, 2000
Posts: 1768
Location: Toledo, Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| kintail wrote: |
On second look ...... maybe if they put the ladder on the bottom bar of the rack then it might work. But I would use the sides for the bottom supports to hit the tire....
Wonder if the ad agency got sued by somebody placing the ladder as shown.. |
Yeah...you are correct...I was gonna mention that.
That picture of the the bus nose and rear are used throught the brochure showing different accesories. As you can guess these Ad Agencies have no idea what is going on and do what they please really, just probably superimposed that ladder over the pic they had. My buddy runs and ad agency I am sure he can confirm how this stuff happens a lot! LOL
The ladder mounts on the lower tube of the rack on the side, the one set of legs rests on the belt line and the other on the tire below. Both the only really structurally sound areas for the ladder to use. Here is a pic of the ladder and rack in the correct position. Note how the ladder is designed exactly to fit the contours of the bus in this position as well.
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Touch Nicks Thing
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Joined: May 21, 2003
Posts: 2029
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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I wanted to bring this old topic back from the dead as it appears there is indisputable evidence the rack bar could be original to the Westfailia. Check line 27.
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Let's hear the experts!
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Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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zundapp
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Joined: August 16, 2004
Posts: 514
Location: Never far from Fahrvergnügen
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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I would like to point out that this bar is made from the same material as the dining table leg on an SO-42...wrapped in that ribbed plastic/vinyl stuff.
I don't think anyone would cut up a westy table just to get a piece of steel bar. |
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| crofty wrote: |
| Let's hear the experts! |
(cricket chirp)
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Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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UZI
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Joined: February 08, 2002
Posts: 13335
Location: phila-DELFT-ia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:54 am Post subject: |
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nick, i would officially like to welcome you to the ICLBWC. you are member #3
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| Cuñado: Chrome will get you home!!!!!!!!!! |
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vw7266
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Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 3038
Location: the point, ohio
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| UZI wrote: |
| nick, i would officially like to welcome you to the ICLBWC. you are member #3 |
Ok Ill ask...what is the ICLBWC? |
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