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vwjimbo
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2005
Posts: 201
Location: akron, ohio
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 Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:00 am Post subject: vert w decklid pricing?? |
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| do you think the price on OG vert w decklids will drop due to the "NEW" repop lids being sold here on the samba? or do you think the price for the real ones will stay up there? |
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johnshenry 
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: |
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I think they will stay high. Reproductions of parts typically have not lowered the prices of originals. Most restorers will always value original parts....
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Kubel Nick
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2003
Posts: 1369
Location: Fort Worth, TX
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| there's already some repop vents and even direct vent stampings, hasn't effected original prices at all |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76911
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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It depends...
The price of original Italian IDAs has dropped when the Spanish ones came out.
For hard core people doing, an restoration a original will always get a premium price. But for the Cal Look or hot rod people a repro is a viable alternative and a way to save a few dollars. And if these people buy repros then the demand drops slightly and maybe the price of the real ones.
Or maybe not.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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DMNCLNR
Sir Camp'alot
Joined: November 12, 2003
Posts: 2897
Location: Newport Beach Ca
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
It depends...
The price of original Italian IDAs has dropped when the Spanish ones came out.
For hard core people doing, an restoration a original will always get a premium price. But for the Cal Look or hot rod people a repro is a viable alternative and a way to save a few dollars. And if these people buy repros then the demand drops slightly and maybe the price of the real ones.
Or maybe not. |
Talking high performance aftermarket parts compared to originals is like apples and oranges. I personally do not think it will affect the prices, and they will always be noticible to anyone who knows what they are looking at!
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76911
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| DMNCLNR wrote: |
| Talking high performance aftermarket parts compared to originals is like apples and oranges. I personally do not think it will affect the prices, and they will always be noticible to anyone who knows what they are looking at! |
I'm not comparing hi-po parts to originals. What I said was that hi-po guys might be willing to take a repro to save a few dollars since they are not doing a "restoration". And with the decreased demand the originals might drop a little.
Since a decklid is not something that effects performance like real Fuchs compared to repros, it's purely fit and finish. So close might be good enough for them.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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big fat whitewalls
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2006
Posts: 473
Location: Sedalia MO. Formally San Fransisco Bay Area
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| HMMMM, who has these repop deck lids? |
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DMNCLNR
Sir Camp'alot
Joined: November 12, 2003
Posts: 2897
Location: Newport Beach Ca
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| big fat whitewalls wrote: |
| HMMMM, who has these repop deck lids? |
I believe West Coast Metric is making them and rain gutters. I had heard the same about BFY, but have also heard that they are not making them.,..
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Brezelwerks
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2003
Posts: 1421
Location: Tyngsboro, MA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: |
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With the current decklids that have the repro vert louvers added you get 100% of the external look of the original at about half the cost of the original, which works for most of the custom, hi-po, and even resto-custom folks. Folks don't care too much if these don't have the rain catcher/vents/drains underside.
If you are going completely stock with a car of this era you are already neck deep in expenses, an original vert decklid is only a fraction of the cost of the restoration, so an OG vert lid is likely the only route you would go. In this case folks care alot if the lids have the rain catcher/vents/drains underside. At a show with the engine compartment open, folks are looking for this feature.
Therefore theres a big difference between what is fabbed from OG to be a repro version and the OG vert lid itself. The rain catchers is what fetches the 2x premium and its likely to remain that way. There is a repro vert decklid in process I am aware of, its even a completely new stamped metal lid. I'm told the new repro is supposed to sell in the mid $200 range when it comes out.
The next question is if these new repro lids will be made to include the rain catchers or not (maybe as an option), and secondly, how close to og would the rain catcher/vents even look? While anything can be done, the rain catchers are also a VERY complex stamping. I'm very skeptical at anywhere near the targeted price point that rain catchers can be stamped out cost effectively and look anything close to OG.
IF the new repros with rain catchers and all are absolutely fantastic reproductions all around (ie: once painted and perfect you would never know), its conceivable only then that you could see a price drop for originals. The difference here is that body panels and parts are not generally "collectibles" sought after by collectors (not to be confused with parts hoarders and part flipper money makers). So original vert decklids instead fetch a high premium for their rarity rather than collectibility.
Gary |
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steven wood
Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 1647
Location: Virginia, NOT West Virginia!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| The guys that are into high performance dual carb engine will go for the repro deck lids because there cheapier and most have to remove the rain catchers for the dual carbs, so why spend the extra money. I would buy a repro deck lid if I needed one for a restoration if it was holding the car up from going into the paint shop. I would still keep looking for an OG lid to replace it. I do believe the prices will drop. How many people "really" need a split vert deck lid for there vert restoration? |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| steven wood wrote: |
| How many people "really" need a split vert deck lid for there vert restoration? |
Anyone that wants to turn the key to the on position.
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Rich's 50
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2004
Posts: 10781
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| steven wood wrote: |
| The guys that are into high performance dual carb engine will go for the repro deck lids because there cheapier and most have to remove the rain catchers for the dual carbs, so why spend the extra money. I would buy a repro deck lid if I needed one for a restoration if it was holding the car up from going into the paint shop. I would still keep looking for an OG lid to replace it. I do believe the prices will drop. How many people "really" need a split vert deck lid for there vert restoration? |
I agree 100%  |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24059
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Brezelwerks wrote: |
| IF the new repros with rain catchers and all are absolutely fantastic reproductions all around (ie: once painted and perfect you would never know), its conceivable only then that you could see a price drop for originals. |
I agree. That's the only way you'll see it happen. |
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El Guero
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2004
Posts: 1197
Location: I.E. Y-QUE
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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is'nt wolf also putting the slits in like og style witout any welding to the lid
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Wolf1
Samba Member
Joined: October 23, 2003
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Guy´s !
Yes, I stamp the slits direct in the lid.
About the rain catchers it is a really complex part as been said abowe.
I have made some try to do it but I have some big problems with some unexpected dents in a couple of places. Unfortunately I did not have the time to work more with that particulary part for the last couple of month, but I will see if I can find some time to fix that problems !
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ssx
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2004
Posts: 641
Location: Big Isle Hawaii
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Can the repops by WCM or WW as rumored be priced at under $300 for real??? Real ones fetch 10X that. I was considering one of Wolf's as they look to be very good quality but even then cost 3-4 times what the WCM ones will go for. Anybody got a timeframe for when they are supposed to be released for sale?
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steven wood
Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 1647
Location: Virginia, NOT West Virginia!
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| steven wood wrote: |
| How many people "really" need a split vert deck lid for there vert restoration? |
Anyone that wants to turn the key to the on position. |
WHAT? |
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ssx
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2004
Posts: 641
Location: Big Isle Hawaii
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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^^^Probably means, no vert lid, no cooling for the engine either. 
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Jimmy Perez
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2003
Posts: 310
Location: Cruising in Cali, Nomad
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ssx wrote: |
| Can the repops by WCM or WW as rumored be priced at under $300 for real??? Real ones fetch 10X that. I was considering one of Wolf's as they look to be very good quality but even then cost 3-4 times what the WCM ones will go for. Anybody got a timeframe for when they are supposed to be released for sale? |
$300 repop Vert W decklids, will probably be made in China with lead paint and flimsier (weak) than Sh*t 
Wolfs W Vert decklids (although not complete with rain gutters) are good (second best) because they are pressed from original W sedan decklids 
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Brezelwerks
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2003
Posts: 1421
Location: Tyngsboro, MA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ssx wrote: |
| Can the repops by WCM or WW as rumored be priced at under $300 for real??? Real ones fetch 10X that. I was considering one of Wolf's as they look to be very good quality but even then cost 3-4 times what the WCM ones will go for. Anybody got a timeframe for when they are supposed to be released for sale? |
I had a conversation with the manufacturer/supplier to both those retailers about 9 months back. I'd estimate the first ones (if they haven't already panicked in fear already) would be another 6-9 months away (allowing for revisions and tweeks).
First were vanilla steel W decklids, then vert lids but who knows. They shouldn't be flimsy either even with lesser gauge material (assuming its close despite steel costs). The way the stampings were designed and joined they are structurally sound by design.
But, when you look at the size of the market and the costs involved to do it right the economics to me don't nearly work, and I'm very familiar with volume manufacturing in Asia, having lived there over 2 years straight designing and coordinating alot of volume manufacturing parts and assemblies for high tech companies.
I don't see how it makes any sense whatsoever but who knows, I've seen alot of very stupid volume manufacturing decisions made before, some do it for the challenge or just to be the first to do it, millionaire types do these things carelessly and take the write off. Done right, theres alot of detail to the original lids when you examine them close, even just the sedan lids. There are all kinds of precision stamped areas underneath, different hinges and cutouts for split and oval versions.
The part cost for a set of correct pair of rain vents might only be about $40 I estimate (having looked them over carefully on mine) if made in Asia, but the problem is tooling costs to make them, expensive nomatter who does it and where. Then typical manufacturers need a minimum intial run of 1000pcs of something like this. So the million dollar question is when does the guy ponying up the bucks up front see a return on his money?? The year 2046 maybe, maybe never? Pure insanity to me.
The way to make these with rain vents is the way Wolf is showing above, use an og lid, press in the louvers, then pound out, press out, planish out separate rain vents/drains to the correct dimensions and then dial it all in over several hours. I watched a guy once bang out a Bugatti fender on wooden and steel forms once in about 7 hours, was a dead match for the original, so just about anything can be done in the right hands, and for perhaps not too bad a price perhaps depending on how/who does it.
We'll just have to wait it out and see who does what, my money is on Wolf though.
Gary |
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