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1968~79 VW Type 2, supplementary turn-signal facilitation
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NASkeet
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Joined: April 29, 2006
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Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:41 am    Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2, supplementary turn-signal facilitation Reply with quote

SUPPLEMENTARY DIRECTION-INDICATOR (i.e. TURN-SIGNAL or BLINKER) REPEATER LAMPS

With ever increasing traffic densities, complex road junctions and the existence of multiple-lane roads (i.e. motorways, dual-carriageways, one-way streets and roundabouts – very common in Great Britain & Europe), it is now more vital than ever, that one's direction indicators (aka turn-signals or blinkers), should be easily visible to all road users (including cyclists and pedestrians!), who might be affected by one's intended manoeuvre. The 1968~72 & 1973~79 VW Type 2s' front & rear, factory-stock direction indicators have limited zones of visibility, so it might be prudent to retro-fit, side-mounted and/or roof-mounted, supplementary direction-indicator lamps.

This must already have seemed important, in some countries and/or for some vehicle models & applications, because for virtually the whole period of their production, there were provisions for both side-mounted, supplementary direction-indicator repeater lamps (M-code 046 - applicable to all left-hand-drive models) and rear-quarter, roof-mounted, supplementary direction-indicator repeater lamps (M-code 546 - applicable to model types 21, 22, 23, 24 & 27). It has also been suggested by Daniel J. Stern, that the North American side-marker light circuit of many vehicle marques, might be adapted to emulate the function of side-mounted, repeater lamps.

Some of the corresponding components, are illustrated in the following publications:

Vincent Molenaar & Alexander Prinz, VW Transporter and Microbus, Specification Guide 1967-79, The Crowood Press, 2005, ISBN 1-86126-765-7, Pages 49, 56 & 57.

http://www.crowood.com

http://www.crowoodpress.co.uk/2007/book_details.asp?ISBN=978+1+86126+765+8

Pages 47 to 66 of the Specification Guide, describe and illustrate a multitude of individual and group M-codes, including those pertaining to optional equipment, special models and national specifications.

Official 1968~79 VW Type 2, Original Replacement Parts Catalogue (e.g. Genuine Parts, Illustrated Catalogue, Typ 2 Mod. 68 > 79, Volkswagen AG, June 1987, 000.7340.82.89) & Microfiche (e.g. Genuine Parts, Microfiche, Typ 2 Mod. 68 > 79, Volkswagen AG, January 1990, 000.7350.05.20), Pages & Frames 98-10 and 100.

The Catalogue gives only illustrations, with Page numbers & Item numbers, whilst the Microfiche additionally gives individual-part descriptions and corresponding VW-Audi part numbers. Although Richard Atwell refers to the Microfiche, his Internet website, as far as I have been able to determine, presently hosts only the Page numbers & Item numbers, without any individual-part descriptions and corresponding VW-Audi part numbers.

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SIDE-MOUNTED, REPEATER LAMPS

M-code 046, which was applicable to only left-hand drive models, of 1969 & 1970~79 model years, corresponds to the fitment of a direction-indicator, side-repeater lamp. I am uncertain about the official fitting location for these, but the B-pillars (i.e. just rearward of the front cab door) on either side, would seem to be the most appropriate place, which is where they have been, on the very few vehicles so equipped, that I have seen. The operation of the sliding door, on either one or both sides of the vehicle, probably precludes the fitment of such a lamp, either on the C-pillar or rearward of this position.

Comparison of the aforementioned publications, suggests that there were at least two recognised patterns of direction-indicator, side-repeater lamp, both of which appear to have been manufactured by Hella.

Illustrated below (reproduced from page 49, of the recent Specification Guide), is what I suspect, is probably the pattern adopted for the early model years (as yet unknown!), shown fitted to the B-pillar, just below the belt-line (i.e. the slight bulge in the bodywork, beneath the window level):

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And here is another similar picture, from J. Nathan, in Lincolnshire, England, which appeared in The Samba classified advertisements:

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In 1988, fitted to what I believed to have been, a second-hand, ex-Dutch police or army, 1973~79 VW Type 2 (bore a Q-suffix licence plate, denoting unknown year of origin!), which had been imported into Great Britain, by Bilbo's Trading Company, in South Godstone, Surrey, England, I saw exactly this pattern of lamp, in the same position on the B-pillar, below the belt-line.

Item No. 5 (including Item Nos. 6~8), on Page & Frame 100, of the June 1987 edition, of the Original Replacement Parts Catalogue, shows a larger (83mm x 41mm x 40mm) and very different pattern, whose configuration probably confers greater visibility, over a wider field of vision. In an old 1982 vintage, Swedish car accessories catalogue, I came across what appears to be, a pair of identical Hella accessory lamps (Hella part No. 2BA 001 227-011), of which a picture showing one, is reproduced below.

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In July 2001, I obtained from a car accessory shop, in Sφdertδlje, Sweden, a pair of these lamps (albeit the slightly revised Hella part No. 2BA 001 227-211), priced at 171•00 SwKr, to retro-fit to my British specification, 1973 VW Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, for which these are the accompanying annoted diagrams, giving the technical specifications and general fitting instructions, albeit in German.

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The lamps (Hella part No. 2BA 001 227-211) I purchased, nearly 6½ years ago, have amber, moulded plastic lenses which attach to the black, moulded plastic bases, by two raised-head, countersunk, Phillips No. 2 self-tapping screws (i.e. sheet-metal screws, in USA parlance), at either end. To facilitate different mounting options, the black, moulded plastic base, incorporates two drain holes; one at the end and one at the side, either of which must orientated downwards, to ensure any water which might have entered the lamp unit, drains out completely.

It's conceivable that the earlier version of this lamp (Hella part No. 2BA 001 227-011), marketed as an after-market accessory in 1982 and/or the one shown in Original Replacement Parts Catalogue, might have had a metal base with machine-screw threaded holes for the amber, moulded plastic lens, which would probably be more robust, but one is unlikely to readily find any new-old-stock lamp units of this kind.

Assuming the surface of the B-pillar is sufficiently flat, I intend to position my Hella lamps, with the top of the lamp, approximately 75 mm beneath the underside of the rain gutter, leaving sufficient space to use a stubby Phillips No. 2 screwdriver (or Phillips No. 2 screwdriver-bit, in a Ό-inch drive, socket tool), to fasten & unfasten the lens-retaining screws. Hence the bottom of the lamp, would be approximately 280 mm above the top of the vehicle belt-line. In my opinion, this elevated position is more sensible, being not only more visible, but also less susceptible to damage.

Either Hella lamps of this pattern or some other similar lamps, were visible on a left-hand drive, 1978/79 VW Type 2 double-cab pickup (British licence plate, with a T-suffix), in a revue of the Volksheaven vehicle dismantlers, near Doncaster, England, published in VW Motoring, November 2000, page 66, as reproduced below.

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Sadly, the image resolution is rather poor, so it is difficult to discern what brand or style of lamp this is. However, one can clearly see, that the lamp is fitted high on the B-pillar, well above the belt-line.

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ROOF-MOUNTED, REPEATER LAMPS

M-code 546, which specified different forms for 1968~76 and 1977~79 model years, corresponds to the fitment of a repeater lamp, to the roof & rain-gutter, at the right & left rear quarters, about mid-way between the rear hatch and the engine-compartment air-intakes. Note that whilst this M-code was applicable to model type 24 (i.e. Deluxe Microbus), for the 1968~76 model year, it was not applicable for the 1977~79 model years.

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The above picture (reproduced from page 57, of the recent Specification Guide), shows a rear-quarter, roof-mounted, rearward-facing, supplementary direction-indicator repeater lamp (M-code 546), as factory-fitted to the 1968~76 VW Type 2 (model Types 21, 22, 23, 24 & 27)

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The above picture (reproduced from page 57, of the recent Specification Guide), shows a rear-quarter, roof-mounted, frontward & rearward-facing, supplementary direction-indicator repater lamp (M-code 546), as factory fitted to the 1977~79 VW Type 2 (model Types 21, 22, 23 & 27), which as I discovered from a magazine article (David Eccles, "Krankenwagen To The Rescue!", Volkswagen Camper & Commercial, Issue 8, Autumn 2002, pp8~11), were fitted to at least some late-model year ambulances. The one shown below, is a German specification, 1978 VW 2000 Type 2, Red-Cross ambulance.

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Item Nos. 19~29, on Page & Frame 100, of the June 1987 edition, of the Original Replacement Parts Catalogue, also show this later pattern of roof-mounted lamp.

From the two pictures above, I deduce that the mountings for both the 1968~76 & 1977~79 VW Type 2, rear-quarter, roof-mounted, supplementary direction-indicator repeater lamp, would tend to promote corrosion of the steel roof panel and rain gutter, so if one intended to retro-fit lamps such as these, it might be prudent to redesign the mountings!

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DANIEL STERN ADAPTATION OF NORTH-AMERICAN, SIDE-MARKER LIGHT CIRCUITS

Daniel J. Stern, of Daniel Stern Lighting (i.e. Automotive Lighting Consultants), in the USA, states that for many North American specification vehicles, it would be possible to emulate a direction-indicator (i.e. turn-signal or blinker) side-repeater lamp facility, by modifying the side-marker light circuit. He refers to the bulb filaments for parking lights, turn signals and side-marker lights, but omits to mention tail lights, so his proposed modification, probably applies solely to the front side-marker lights.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/markerflash/markerflash.html

As illustrated on his Internet website, this modification, simply involves each of the side-marker light bulb-holder's, two connection terminals or contacts, having different +12V supplies when switched on; one a constant +12V supply from the side light (i.e. parking light) and the other, an intermittent +12V supply from the direction indicator (i.e. turn-signal or blinker), obviating the side-marker light's earth (i.e. ground) connection.

This type of circuit modification, might seem a little bizarre at first, but it does share some common features, with that of the factory-stock, 1968~79 VW Type 2, direction-indicator, warning-light circuit, whose bulb holders have direct connections, to the constant +12V ignition controlled supply and the intermittent +12V supply, from the flasher relay.

The following in blue text, is my paraphrasing of Daniel Stern's explanation of how the side-marker light cum direction-indicator side-repeater functions, interspersed with my rhetorical questions in red text and concluding thoughts in green text:

Bulb filaments rated as 4W, 5W & 21W, at 12V potential difference, would have resistances of approximately 36•0 ohms, 28•8 ohms & 6•86 ohms respectively.

Operating Mode 1

When the side lights (i.e. parking lights) & tail lights are switched on and the direction indicators (i.e. turn signals or blinkers) are switched off, the side-marker light bulb-filament earths (i.e. grounds) via the direction-indicator bulb-filament, continuously illuminating the side-marker light.

I wonder how the direction-indicator bulb-filament appears, when it is acting as the earthing (i.e. grounding) path, for the side-marker light bulb-filament!?! Does the side-marker light bulb-filament, glow less brightly, than it did when using the factory-stock side-marker light circuit, and if so, to what extent!?!

Given that the direction-indicator bulb filament and side-marker light bulb-filament, seem to effectively be connected in series, I would anticipate, that the 12V potential difference, would be shared between them, in proportion to their resistances.

This suggests that the 4W or 5W side-marker light bulb-filaments, would appear less bright, than they otherwise would, with the factory-stock circuits and any glow from the 21W direction-indicator bulb filaments would probably be imperceptible. Assuming 4W and 21W bulb-filaments are used, I anticipate approximately 0•840 x 12V = 10•1V & 0•160 x 12V = 1•9V potential difference, across the side-marker light & direction-indicator, bulb-filaments respectively.


Operating Mode 2

If the direction indicators are then switched on, this intermittently interrupts the side-marker light's earth (i.e. ground), causing it to flash off when the direction indicator flashes on (i.e. they flash on & off in antiphase).

Do either one or both, of the side-marker light bulb-filaments and direction-indicator bulb-filaments, glow less brightly, than they did when using the factory-stock, side-marker light and direction-indicator circuits, and if so, to what extent!?!

For all practical purposes, the direction-indicator light bulb-filaments, on the side(s) for which the direction-indicators have been switched on, would receive the full +12V supply, when flashed on and revert to the Operating Mode 1 situation, when flashed off.

For all practical purposes, the side-marker light bulb-filaments, would receive the full +12V supply at both ends of the filaments (i.e. no potential difference across the filament and hence no current flow), when the direction indicators flashed on and revert to the Operating Mode 1 situation, when they flashed off.


Operating Mode 3

Conversely, when the side lights (i.e. parking lights), tail lights & side-marker lights are switched off and the direction indicators (i.e. turn signals or blinkers) are switched on, the side-marker light bulb-filament earths (i.e. grounds) via the side-light (i.e. parking-light) bulb-filament, intermittently flashing on & off, both the direction-indicator & side-marker lights, flashing in phase with one another.[/blue]

[color=red]I wonder how the bulb-filaments for the side-marker light, side light (i.e. parking light) & tail light appear, when they act as the earthing (i.e. grounding) paths, for the direction-indicator bulb-filaments!?! Do either one or both, of the side-marker light bulb-filaments and direction-indicator bulb-filaments, glow less brightly, than they did when using the factory-stock, side-marker light and direction-indicator circuits, and if so, to what extent!?!


For all practical purposes, the direction-indicator light bulb-filaments, on the side(s) for which the direction-indicators have been switched on, would receive the full intermittent +12V supply and behave exactly as they would for the factory-stock circuit.

On the side(s) for which the direction-indicators have been switched on, both the side-light (i.e. parking-light) and side-marker light bulb-filaments connected in series, will flash on, but how brightly these will be, is difficult to predict, as it all depends upon how many individual side lights (i.e. parking lights) and tail lights, share a common positive supply! The more there are of these connected in parallel, the dimmer they will appear and the brighter the side-marker light will be.

The worst case scenario, as a reference for comparison, would be a single 4W side-marker light bulb-filament, connected in series with, a single 5W side-light (i.e. parking-light) bulb-filament or single 5W tail-light bulb-filament. In this case, I anticipate approximately 0•556 x 12V = 6•7V & 0•444 x 12V = 5•3V potential difference, across the side-marker light & side-light or tail-light bulb-filaments respectively.

The likely best case scenario (assuming no trailer lights are connected, which would otherwise exascerbate the problem), as a further reference for comparison, would be a single 5W side-marker light bulb-filament, connected in series with, a total of four parallel connected, 5W side-light (i.e. parking-light) & tail-light bulb-filaments. In this case, I anticipate approximately 0•800 x 12V = 9•6V & 0•200 x 12V = 2•4V potential difference, across the side-marker light & side-light or tail-light bulb-filaments respectively.


I haven't attempted to set up a test rig, to investigate these circuit configurations, so I don't yet know exactly what to expect! I envisage that when the diection indicators are switched off, there will be no perceptible glow from direction-indicator bulbs, under any circumstances. However, it's still questionable as to how the side-marker light, side-light (i.e. parking-light) & tail-light bulbs will appear, under Operating Mode 3. Hopefully, Daniel Stern can be persuaded to enlighten us further; if you will pardon the pun!

In common with many Internet websites, the link to Daniel Stern's enquiry e-mail address is imoperative, prompting the usual message that the default mail client is not properly installed. However, when one places the mouse cursor over the link, an e-mail address appears at the bottom of the monitor, which seems to read with spaces as shown:

[email protected]?subject = Automotive Lighting Query

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DANIEL STERN ADAPTATION OF NORTH-AMERICAN, 1970~79 VW TYPE 2, SIDE-MARKER LIGHT CIRCUITS

The North American specification, 1973~79 VW Type 2, has factory-stock, front side-marker lights, integrated into the front direction-indicator lamp units, whose component parts, are shown as Item Nos. 2, (3 or 4), 10, 11, 13, 15 & 17, on Page & Frame No. 100, of the official 1968~79 VW Type 2, Original Replacement Parts Catalogue & Microfiche:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The design of this combination lamp unit (part of M-code 524), is such that both the two-filament 21/5W bulb (Item No. 3 or 4) for the direction indictor & side light and the single-filament 4W or 5W bulb (Item No. 2) for the side-marker light, are earthed (i.e. grounded) directly through the metal bulb-caps, to the lamp unit's, painted steel reflector. In order to implement Daniel Stern's suggested modification, it would entail substituting into a modified steel reflector, an alternative side-marker light bulb-holder, with two independent connection terminals and having no earth (i.e. ground) to the steel reflector. This might or might not be a practical option!

These front side-marker lights, integrated into the front direction-indicator lamp units (mounted on either side of the front ventilation grille), have little if any zone of vision, rearward of the vehicle's front panel, so they are not as useful as they might be; either as side-marker lights or as direction-indicator repeater lamps.

The 1970~79 VW Type 2, rear side-marker lights (part of M-code 524) and front side-marker reflectors (part of M-code 524), are shown as Item Nos. 7~9 and 30~34 respectively, on Page & Frame No. 98-10, of the official 1968~79 VW Type 2, Original Replacement Parts Catalogue & Microfiche:

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However, the amber lens (Item No. 7) of the cab-door mounted, front side-marker reflector and red lens (Item No. 32) of the rear side-panel mounted, rear side-marker light, are identical in all respects except for that of colour. Hence both coloured lenses, may alternatively be used, with either the moulded reflector base (Item No. 8) or the moulded bulb-holder base (Item No. 30), which offers various options!

Firstly, one can readily upgrade the 1970~79 VW Type 2, cab-door mounted, front side-marker reflector, to a front side-marker light, by substitution of a moulded bulb-holder base (VW part No. 211 945 251A) & rubber electrical-connector weather seal (Item No. 31 - VW part No. 211 945 359) and then making the necessary electrical connections from one terminal of each bulb holder, to the side-light (i.e. parking-light) circuits' +12V supply, using grey coloured cable and then connections to earth (i.e. ground) from the remaining side-marker light, bulb-holder terminals, using brown coloured cable.

However, if one wishes instead, to implement Daniel Stern's modified side-marker light circuit, designed to emulate a direction-indicator, side-repeater facility, the earth (i.e. ground)connection, is replaced by the intermittent +12V supply, from the right-hand or left-hand direction indicator lamp, as appropriate, using factory-stock black/green and black/white coloured cables respectively.

Road-vehicle lighting regulations, governing the acceptable lens colours and operational modes of various lamps, vary between countries. To the best of my knowledge, those which apply to the 1968~79 VW Type 2, in this context, in Great Britain and most, if not all of the European Union, are as follows:

Front, rear & side-repeater, direction indicators, must all be amber (i.e. orange) and flash at the same frequency, of 60~120 flashes per minute (i.e. 1~2 Hertz).

Side lights (i.e. front parking lights), must all be clear white.

Tail lights, must all be red.

Front side-marker lights (if fitted), may all be either clear white or amber (i.e. orange).

Rear side-marker lights (if fitted), may all be either red or amber (i.e. orange).

Intermediate side-marker lights (if fitted), must all be amber (i.e. orange).

Daytime running lights (if fitted), may all be either clear white or yellow.


As I have previously mentioned elsewhere, my British specification, 1973 VW Type 2, was retro-fitted during the late-1970s, with red-lensed, rear side-marker lights and amber-lensed, front side-marker reflectors, which I intend to eventually upgrade, by substituting amber lenses at the rear and bulb-holder units at the front; rationalising the components used and more closely mimicking present British & European practice, re side-marker lights fitted to commercial vehicles, plus "long" trailers and caravans.

I have a home-made, modular, custom wiring loom, for which some of cable colours depart from the factory-stock specifications. Instead of using grey coloured cables for all the front side-lights (i.e. parking lights), I have rationalised the wiring colours, so that the +12V supply to the side-lights, tail lights, rear side-marker lights and future front side-marker lights, on the right-hand, is via grey/red coloured cables, whilst those on the left-hand side, is via grey/black coloured cables; which were the original colour codes for just the rear.

The standard side-marker light circuit, comprises two connections to the 4W or 5W bulb holder, one which is to earth (i.e. ground, in USA parlance) and the other is either of grey, grey/black or grey/red wires, which are the factory-stock cable colours for the 4W or 5W side lights (aka parking lights) and tail lights.

For a system, whose circuit is modified as Daniel Stern suggests, the issue of whether or not, the direction-indicator bulb-filaments noticeably glow (I doubt whether they will!), when the side lights (i.e. parking lights) & side-marker lights are selected, but the direction indicators are switched off, has significant implications, with regard to the whether it is reasonable, to similarly upgrade & modify, 1968~79 VW Type 2s used outside North America, where like Great Britain, amber (i.e. orange) daytime running lights or side lights (i.e. parking lights) are not sanctioned.

In North America, this is not a serious issue, because the front direction-indicator bulb-filament and side-light (i.e. parking light) bulb-filament, are both housed in the bulb-glass-envelope, in the same amber-lensed lamp housing, so it would be virtually impossible to discern, whether or not, the direction-indicator bulb-filaments noticeably glow, when the side lights (i.e. parking lights) & side-marker lights are selected, but the direction indicators are switched off.

However, both within North America and beyond its borders, this and other issues need to be considered, with regard to the legitimacy of Daniel Stern's suggested circuit modification, if implemented for the rear side-marker lights.

Let us first examine the case of non North American specification, 1968~71 VW Type 2s and all 1972~79 VW Type 2s, with rear side-marker lights (either factory-fitted or later retro-fitted) and amber rear direction indictors. Similar considerations also apply, to any 1972~79 VW Type 2s, with red rear direction indicators, but why anyone would wish to have these bizarre rear-light lenses, I cannot fathom! I am uncertain of the lighting regulations in North America, but if the rear side-marker lights, are to have a secondary function as direction-indicator, side-repeater lamps, then the lenses must be amber.

If the rear direction-indicator, bulb-filaments glow noticeably (I doubt whether they will!), when the tail lights & rear side-marker lights are switched on, but the direction indicators are switched off, this could create confusion to following drivers, who would observe a pair of constantly illuminated amber lights. Then, if the direction indicators on one side were selected, to indicate a left-turn or right-turn manoeuvre, further confusion would be created, by having both left-hand & right-hand, rear amber direction indicators illuminated, albeit one of them flashing.

North American specification, 1968~71 VW Type 2s, are equipped with a factory-stock, direction-indicator & emergency flasher system, together with a brake-light circuit, which facilitates bizarre rear-light functions, whereby the same 21W bulb-filament, is used for both a brake light and a direction indicator. To make matters even worse, all three light functions are served by a single 21/5W, twin-filament bulb, shining through an all-red lens; which even by itself, is a recipe for major confusion and consequently higher risk of accidents. In all my years as a professional physicist & engineer, I have yet to encounter a crazier design philosophy!

For these vehicles, if the rear direction-indicator, bulb-filaments glow noticeably (I doubt whether they will!), when the tail lights & rear side-marker lights are switched on, but the direction indicators are switched off, this could create confusion to following drivers, who would probably observe a pair of constantly illuminated, high-intensity red lights, which might be mistaken for the brake lights operating.
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Nigel A. Skeet

Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper

Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
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NASkeet
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:13 am    Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2, supplementary turn-signal facilitation Reply with quote

Since posting this topic a few weeks ago, I have sorted out some of the pictures which were not showing and radically revised the section about adapting the side-marker light circuit, to provide dual-function, side-marker lights cum direction-indicator, side-repeater lamps, as suggested by Daniel J. Stern.

There are still some issues with regard to Daniel Stern's modification, which need to be clarified, one of which is the potentially reduced intensity of the side-marker light bulbs and also whether one needs to substitute a heavy-duty flasher unit.
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Nigel A. Skeet

Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper

Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This guy has a really good topic similar to this...........

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=210742&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

....But still diffrent enough!!

Need.......more......coffee....... #Sleep
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:46 am    Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2, supplementary turn-signal facilitation Reply with quote

thewalrus wrote:
This guy has a really good topic similar to this...........

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=210742&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

....But still diffrent enough!!

Need.......more......coffee....... #Sleep


I had quite forgotten about this write-up.
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Nigel A. Skeet

Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper

Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)

http://www.vwt2oc.net
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love to get my hands on a set of those indicators.

Great information Nigel!
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:19 am    Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2, supplementary turn-signal facilitation Reply with quote

calebmelvin wrote:
I would love to get my hands on a set of those indicators.

Great information Nigel!


To which particular indicators, do you refer?
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calebmelvin
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2, supplementary turn-signal facilitatio Reply with quote

NASkeet wrote:


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These or similar would be best suited for those in my blind spot or coming from the side, I like the idea because the bus is so large. Are these hard to find?

Also, as an alternative, indicators located in/on the mirrors would provide more visibility as well. I like these as they include blind spot mirrors, but ones can be found without. A quick search for "mirror turn signals" yields a lot of options.

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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:53 am    Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2, supplementary turn-signal facilitation Reply with quote

calebmelvin wrote:
NASkeet wrote:


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These or similar would be best suited for those in my blind spot or coming from the side, I like the idea because the bus is so large. Are these hard to find?


I have never come across these as new or new-old-stock, but they might be available second-hand; particularly in Italy or possibly The Netherlands.

I suspect one can still obtain the more bulbous later variety, shown below, which I obtained new from Sweden, several years ago:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:55 am    Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2, supplementary turn-signal facilitatio Reply with quote

Any ideas where one would buy a replacement set of these? My 63 beetle had alternate signals installed behind the side doors, ahead of rear quarter windows. Have had a tough time finding replacements for original plastic which is aged and damaged. not much luck in USA. Believe car was originally Dutch, which required the additional lights. That was story I got at least from PO. UNlike this picture, mine are all clear, same shape though, but this is first time i've seen similar shaped lights. Say "Hella" and have (A)2151 on side.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:55 am    Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2, supplementary turn-signal facilitatio Reply with quote

Wow. Great write up. Thanks, NASkeet.

I like this one because it looks original and appropriate for the day:
NASkeet wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Are these still available? Did I miss the source in your post?

The mirror mount LED kits look to be an easy, practical install, but I like the old look.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2, supplementary turn-signal facilitatio Reply with quote

Hippie wrote:
Wow. Great write up. Thanks, NASkeet.

I like this one because it looks original and appropriate for the day:
NASkeet wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Are these still available? Did I miss the source in your post?

The mirror mount LED kits look to be an easy, practical install, but I like the old look.


Just came across this link. I'm looking for these in clear, but looks to be the amber version for the bus. Not sure about ordering/shipping in the US, but if you end up ordering, let me know.

http://www.bugservice.dk

Search for part:

Sidelys
Varenr. 953210001
Pris 119.00 dkk Tilbudspris 107,10 dkk

Lager 3 til 9 dages leveringstid

Bestil antal

Side lamp

VW T.1
1.2-1.5
08/60-07/67
VW T.2
1.6
08/60-07/79

T.1, 1.2-1.5, 08/60-07/67, T.2, 1.6, 08/60-07/79
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2, supplementary turn-signal facilitatio Reply with quote

Sullypops wrote:
Any ideas where one would buy a replacement set of these? My 63 beetle had alternate signals installed behind the side doors, ahead of rear quarter windows. Have had a tough time finding replacements for original plastic which is aged and damaged. not much luck in USA. Believe car was originally Dutch, which required the additional lights. That was story I got at least from PO. UNlike this picture, mine are all clear, same shape though, but this is first time i've seen similar shaped lights. Say "Hella" and have (A)2151 on side.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



these side flashers are Italy only, we had them on our market buses from 1959 up to 1979, also on beetles (on windscreen pillars) destined to Italy and built in late 1963, early 1964, again Italy only.
see picture.

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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a bit confused for the installation of the later style indicator.

I have managed to get the indicators through CSP however you may find them in many other stores like here for instance:

http://seekpart24.com/hella/indicator-2ba001227201?c=700247

I cant seem to find the exact original height to drill and mount the indicators,several options vary through the search that i have done.

For sure the early style is right bellow the belt line,any one got more info for the later ones?

Here are some pictures through the Internet, hope the owners don't mind.

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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the only correct place is as fitted to the green early bay panel, below waist line.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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That's a fridge vent Wink
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I am sure that the green one is correct and installed by Volkswagen or a Volkswagen dealer with installation guide direct from the headquarters.
I say this because I've never seen an early style indicator in a different position and Volkswagen was strict and methodic of where to install various gadgets up to one point,things got out of hand as years past by and vanagon was on their head.
However the later style might not even had installation guide and installed by the dealers at vary places?

Thanks busdaddy for the info, I didn't know this and never seen one.
Are all the fridge vents in that position or those vary as well?
If so, three orange buses must be incorrect and installation right above the belt line is out of the question.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

topaz. wrote:
Thanks busdaddy for the info, I didn't know this and never seen one.
Are all the fridge vents in that position or those vary as well?
If so, three orange buses must be incorrect and installation right above the belt line is out of the question.

Euro model Helsinki's have a vent there (or other side if LHD), the Berlin's have it on the rear 1/4 panel below the vent window.
It seems more logical to have the light below the belt line as cars of the day were faily low and the low mounting would make it easier to see when right beside it in traffic.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I live in Italy and ALL buses sold here between 1959 and 1979 so until bay window end of production were fitted with Hella side flashers fitted in the very same place below waist line.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topaz. wrote:
Yes I am sure that the green one is correct and installed by Volkswagen or a Volkswagen dealer with installation guide direct from the headquarters.
I say this because I've never seen an early style indicator in a different position and Volkswagen was strict and methodic of where to install various gadgets up to one point,things got out of hand as years past by and vanagon was on their head.
However the later style might not even had installation guide and installed by the dealers at vary places?

Thanks busdaddy for the info, I didn't know this and never seen one.
Are all the fridge vents in that position or those vary as well?
If so, three orange buses must be incorrect and installation right above the belt line is out of the question.


topaz. when are you going to show us some pictures of your bus? All I see is your posts about obscure and rare parts but i never get to see what they are being attached to.

got pics? Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Busdaddy thanks once more for the info I will definitely take a look on that once I get a fridge,which I really need/want one.
I agree with both of you guys that the best place is right under the belt line.
Just want to be certain for the exact place.
Riccardo ciao and thank you for your input to this matter,if you got or ever find any photos of the later style indicators installed please do post them here.
I will have to hold back on this for a bit.

Hey Rustbus some parts have not been installed yet, no pictures so far,I promise when I install the indicators to post some pictures. Very Happy
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