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ROGER LAWLESS
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2004
Posts: 238
Location: SANTA CRUZ, CA
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 Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: How to put Type 3 brakes on my 67 bug ! |
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I have a 67 bug with a brand new Rancho tranny with axles installed by Rancho.
I put type 3 backingplates on the axle, the spacer and bearing retainer from my old axle and the NEW wide five type drum won't cover the shoes all the way. It, the drum, stops about 1/16" from the backingplate. So I check and the drum is hitting the bearing reatiner/spacer. The bearing retainer says 311-501-311. I called one VW shop that was open today and Stewart says that ALL spacers are the same size. If that's the case the drum will never go on all the way. I looked up the article in Hot VW's by KCR Trannys to try and determine what's wrong. Now I don't have a clue whats right. It seems like it should have gone right on all the way but apparantly there is something wrong. with the setup.
Can somebody please give me some advise on how to correct this problem 
Thanks, Roger
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I have a61 Ragtop and a 69 Ghia Coupe |
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bill may
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Joined: August 27, 2003
Posts: 14160
Location: san diego,ca
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ROGER LAWLESS
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2004
Posts: 238
Location: SANTA CRUZ, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: Type 3 setup ! |
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| bill may wrote: |
| you can use wide 5 type 3 drums on the 67 short spline axles by machining 5/8" off outer snout of drum. |
Not if the drums won't cover the shoes. There is something amis here.
Thanks, Roger
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EZGZ
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Joined: October 10, 2005
Posts: 923
Location: Loveland, Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:29 am Post subject: |
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You might try putting your axle nut on and tighten it a bit. Don't go full strength or anything.
Sometimes the axles and bearings need to be located. I hope one of your fulcrum plates didn't slide behind the axle durring shipping or instalation. They are a PITA to get back in place while on the car
Have you got a book to see what I'm talking about?
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64 custom Ghia, 66 Bug, Sandrail, Barrien tub |
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bill may
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Joined: August 27, 2003
Posts: 14160
Location: san diego,ca
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:34 am Post subject: |
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wide5 type 3 drums are wider than beetle wide 5. which drums are you trying to put on type3 brake backing plates and shoes? if using beetle 4 lug backing plates and shoes then you use thing drums(wide 5 ) if type 3 backing plates and shoes you need type3 wide 5 drums or 63 and older type 2 bus rear drums with snout machined. if using 67 beetle axles they are long axle short spline - 68beetle axles have long axle long spline same as type 3 axles. does your backing plates have 1 spring on bottom to return shoes inwards or 2 seperate springs like type 3?? how about a picture of rear brakes minus drums?----- just read the part about "my old bearing retainer" 67 bearing retainer is 1 year (1967) only.
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Last edited by bill may on Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ROGER LAWLESS
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2004
Posts: 238
Location: SANTA CRUZ, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: type 3 brakes! |
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I personally picked up the tranny and didn't take the retainer off until it was in the car.
I guess I am not explaining myself very good. So here it is again.
The drum won't go all rhe way on, not including the snout that I know I'll have to cut off, it stops against the bearing retainer and the spacer ( the thick piece of metal that covers the small 'O' ring). Is it possible that the Bearing retainer part # 311-501-311 is the wrong one ? Is that bearing retainer for a 68 only tranny or will it fit the type 3 axle as well ? Maybe I had a 68 tranny in my 67 bug. I never thought to check it out. It did have that 'junkyard' yellow marking in it with a price of $200.
Thanks, Roger
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I have a61 Ragtop and a 69 Ghia Coupe
Last edited by ROGER LAWLESS on Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ROGER LAWLESS
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Joined: December 18, 2004
Posts: 238
Location: SANTA CRUZ, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| bill may wrote: |
| wide5 type 3 drums are wider than beetle wide 5. which drums are you trying to put on type3 brake backing plates and shoes? if using beetle 4 lug backing plates and shoes then you use thing drums(wide 5 ) if type 3 backing plates and shoes you need type3 wide 5 drums or 63 and older type 2 bus rear drums with snout machined. if using 67 beetle axles they are long axle short spline - 68beetle axles have long axle long spline same as type 3 axles. does your backing plates have 1 spring on bottom to return shoes inwards or 2 seperate springs like type 3?? how about a picture of rear brakes minus drums?----- just read the part about "my old bearing retainer" 67 bearing retainer is 1 year (1967) only. |
I am using Type 3 backing plates with two springs at the bottom and the bearing retainer and spacer that I took off of my 67 car. I bought NEW widefive type 3 drums, shoes and wheelcylinders for Custom 1 Wearhouse in Orange Ca.
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I have a61 Ragtop and a 69 Ghia Coupe |
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bill may
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ROGER LAWLESS
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2004
Posts: 238
Location: SANTA CRUZ, CA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:24 am Post subject: type 3 brakes on a bug ! |
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| bill may wrote: |
| did you put the narrow spacer on 1st then bearing then thin washer then oring then big spacer then big washer/deflecter then big oring on outside of bearing then retainer then drum? |
As I stated I bought the tranny with axles and bearimngs in place from Rancho. I then proceded to place the backingplate on/over the axle and bearing, thin spacer next to bearing, small'O' ring, fat spacer with notch over small 'O' ring, large 'O' ring over the outer edge of the bearing, paper gasket, bearing retainer with oil seal and the large thin metal washer/spacer at the farthest inside outer edge of the retainer. I then bolted it in place with the old bolts and toequed to 43 lbs. Placed the NEW widefive type three drum on the axle to see how it fit. It went over the shoes fine but would NOT go on all the way as it was about 3'8" from covering all of the brake shoes and the drum was about 1/16" away from the backingplates outer edge where I could still see the 1/16" of brake shoes.
Maybe the guy sold me Thing rear drums by mistake. I wouldn't know the difference just looking at them. My breaing retainers number is 311-501-311 if that helps.
Thanks, Roger
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Michael Fischer
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Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 1585
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Thing drums are too small. There is no way they would fit over the type 3 brakes. Type 3 brakes should bolt onto 68 axles no problem. Something is wrong. Pics would help. |
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ROGER LAWLESS
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2004
Posts: 238
Location: SANTA CRUZ, CA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: Type three brakes ! |
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Well I think I finally have a handle on it Because I had a new transmission and new axle bearings I found out that the bearings will NOT seat fully on the axle until you/ me put a drum on or spacers and crank down the axle nut with an impact wrench to seat the AXLE in the bearing inner race which then seats itself in the axle tube end casting.
I have machined 5/8 inch off of the type 3 brake drums today, after careful measureing, and they should fit fine on my 67 long axle, short spline. Now on a 68 axle, long axle-long spline you don't need to take off so much of the drum. Maybe 3/8" is all. Then again the 68 VW Bug has bigger drums and brakes anyway so why go to tyoe 3 brakes anyway for 68 and newer bugs. 
I still have to find out if I need the 311-501-311 bearing retainer or the 311-501-311-A as they have different depths to them. But always remember that the 1961 to 1968 axle spacer that covers the small 'O' ring and rides in the bearing retainer sealing any tranny leaks there is the SAME SIZE, period. NO if's and's or but's.....
Thanks for your help.
Roger
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El Guero
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Joined: January 03, 2004
Posts: 1197
Location: I.E. Y-QUE
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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i have a 54 oval and want to put type 3 rear brakes i'm having them drilled for the porsche alloy pattern how much should be taking off the snout
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andy_t
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Joined: July 19, 2008
Posts: 142
Location: 29 palms
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Reviving an old thread here...
Dose the parking brake cable require andy modification?
Dose it attach the same way in t-1 and t-3?
Regards
Andy |
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