Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
My Espar Gas Heater Installation
Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
fukengruvenoval
Samba Member


Joined: December 07, 2004
Posts: 774
Location: OSHAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA
fukengruvenoval is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject: My Espar Gas Heater Installation Reply with quote

Even with my close-to-stock (aftermarket heat exchangers, insulated heat tube, more recently a bilge blower) heat hooked up, our end-of-winter trip to Myrtle Beach and Everybus in North Carolina last year was very, very cold. It didn't help that we drove through four record setting days, coldest temperatures for those areas in dates in over 25 years.

This year my interest in replacing the gas heater was piqued. I removed and sold my complete non-working BA6 last year for a very good price on Ebay. I thought about someday getting a more simple BN4. But then I came across Eberspacher's newer heaters, distributed in North America by Espar. Others on this forum have used them with success, as well as some similar modern heaters like the Mikuni and Webasto.

There is lots of info on their website here: www.espar.com and this is an example of what the modern heaters look like:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After finding out how much the gasoline variant of these heaters was new from local dealers I was pretty sure I wouldn't go ahead. The price was over $2000 with the necessary installation kit. The diesel versions are far more popular for obvious reasons - their main market is very hot right now - reducing idling of big rigs by installing their heaters for nightime heating.

I started watching Ebay auctions and found a brand new B3LC 3KW (12,000 BTU) gasoline heater for a reasonable price, including lots of extra installation parts. Apparently it was an R&D project to design a heat system for Bobcat. I had to pay shipping from Texas which is ironic because the Espar dealer is literally a mile away from my office in Mississauga, Ontario. Here's some of what came in the boxes:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Since I have a '76, I wanted to install it where the spare tire is stored, behind the drivers seat, with a duct coming out of the spare tire cover and one coming out under the drivers seat. My wife was dead-set against that and insisted that whatever we do not detract from the functionality or appearance of the bus. In short, she wanted it underneath, in place of the original BA6.

My camera crapped out as I was doing the installation, so I drew up some diagrams of the installation. It is mounted to a steel bracket, bolted into the frame under the bus. A return air supply was drilled under the rear seat and piped with 75mm ducting into the heater. The 90mm outlet was connected into a "Y" piece of sheet metal ducting which was connected into the main heat tube from front to rear. This provides recirculation of air from inside the bus to the front and rear heat outlets, along with the stock heat. To allow use while parked I put a one way dryer flapper in the main heat system to not allow the heat from the gas heater to escape through the engine. I insulated all ducting afterwards.

NOTE: I am not affiliated with German Supply. They are a great supplier and give out handy-dandy note pads, hence their logo below:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The only areas I had to cut the bus were to cut a 3.5" hole under the rear seat for return air (because I had previously removed the BA6 return air connection), and I had to modify the BA6 belly pan to accomodate the support bracket for the B3LC.

On a test drive yesterday, the outside temperature was about 0 Celcius (32 Farenheit) and it was hot enough inside we were sweating and had to dial the heat down to LOW! We are very happy!

One other note - I realized that some of my problem before was a leaky front air intake. My bus had its nose replaced a few years ago by the PO and he didn't properly seal around the intake. Some seam sealer took care of that and now we have no drafts!

The B3LC is hooked into my deep cycle so it can run while camping. It only draws a lot of amperage when it's first starting (because of the glow plug) so it could theroretically run many nights on one charge!

Here are some pictures of the finished installation:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

These pics are the return air intake.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This is the 7-day timer/controller - A little overkill, but that's what came with the auction!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here's the exhaust.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This is all you can see under the bus. The exhaust, combustion air intake, and fuel line. The metering pump is hidden in this picture, but is mounted on the outside of the frame rail.
_________________
Check out my video series at www.youtube.com/midnightoilgarage
Current: 12 Fiat 500 Sport, 09 Ford Flex, 76 Westfalia 2L FI, 72 Euro Super Auto-Stick, 69 Type 1 Cal-Look, 56 Type 1
Past: 94 Jetta Diesel, 92 Golf, 79 Bradley GT, 74 Thing, 73 Super Euro Spec, 72 Super, 68 Type 1 Convertible, 66 Single Cab, 65 Beetle, 57 Type 1 Parts Car, 57 Porsche Speedster Kit Car (CMC), 00 New Beetle GLS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tommy Franklin
Samba Member


Joined: February 28, 2004
Posts: 401
Location: Georgia
Tommy Franklin is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW! Looks really nice...I've been wanting one for my bus...Hope to get one next fall...Hows it heat? I agree with the under body install...How long did it take you to install? Can you tell much difference in your gas consumption?
Thanks!
Tom
_________________
1963 15 Window Deluxe VW Bus
Lowered, narrowed,
Type 3 Freeway Flyer Transmission
Straight Cut Gears
1776 engine with,
69 Counterweight Crank;
Stock Rods;
Scat lifters;
90.5 Mahle Pistons;
42 37 Valves on Heads;
Scat 1.25 Rockers;
.40 Dual webers
Beautiful Wife
6 Sons
1 Daughter
1 Dog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
fukengruvenoval
Samba Member


Joined: December 07, 2004
Posts: 774
Location: OSHAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA
fukengruvenoval is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommy Franklin wrote:
WOW! Looks really nice...I've been wanting one for my bus...Hope to get one next fall...Hows it heat? I agree with the under body install...How long did it take you to install? Can you tell much difference in your gas consumption?
Thanks!
Tom


Hi Tom,

Thanks for your comments. The heat so far is wonderful. It's not a blast furnace like I had planned, but it was more than warm enough to work up a sweat. I had to get down to my T-shirt. This was in freezing weather. The installation took a few evenings because I had to fab up the ducting, support brackets, run the wiring, and install my deep cycle battery at the same time. I haven't run it enough to notice the gas consumption, but it runs on a rediculously small amount. On its highest BTU output it will use .42 L or .11 US gallons per hour. On its lowest setting (which is all you would need when camping) it only uses .12 L or .03 US gallons per hour. That's while putting out 12,000 BTU on high and 3400 BTU on low. It has two other settings too. It automatically cycles through all four to maintain the heat setting you want.
_________________
Check out my video series at www.youtube.com/midnightoilgarage
Current: 12 Fiat 500 Sport, 09 Ford Flex, 76 Westfalia 2L FI, 72 Euro Super Auto-Stick, 69 Type 1 Cal-Look, 56 Type 1
Past: 94 Jetta Diesel, 92 Golf, 79 Bradley GT, 74 Thing, 73 Super Euro Spec, 72 Super, 68 Type 1 Convertible, 66 Single Cab, 65 Beetle, 57 Type 1 Parts Car, 57 Porsche Speedster Kit Car (CMC), 00 New Beetle GLS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pb24ss
Samba Member


Joined: June 30, 2005
Posts: 1665
Location: sitting around the fire with the bluegrass band - colorado
pb24ss is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fukengruvenoval,

Looks great! Here's what I did with my D2. It was a fun install.

http://pictures.radom.org/v/vw/projects/heating/airtronic/installation/
_________________
78 P22 Westy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
davis911s
Samba Member


Joined: July 07, 2005
Posts: 964
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
davis911s is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks [email protected] Great Job. I love my Mikuni too

Shawn
_________________
"I choose to use CAA on old cars with character...instead of car payments on a new car Smile "

1973 Westfalia, Camper Special with 75 FI. Automatic 003 . Non-pop top
1977 Porsche 911S Targa, 2.7 L with 5spd
1992 Passat G60 Syncro Wagon (SOLD)
1975 Westfalia (SOLD)
1979 Westfalia (SOLD)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bajatacoma
Samba Member


Joined: August 05, 2003
Posts: 675
Location: the Great State of Denial
Bajatacoma is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks neat but I'd be worried about all of the debris on the road that could take it out. Sorry, my luck just runs that way. Could it be routed over the frame?
_________________
'78 Westy

Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed?
Hunter S Thompson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
fukengruvenoval
Samba Member


Joined: December 07, 2004
Posts: 774
Location: OSHAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA
fukengruvenoval is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bajatacoma wrote:
Looks neat but I'd be worried about all of the debris on the road that could take it out. Sorry, my luck just runs that way. Could it be routed over the frame?


The bottom of the support bracket is only about 1" lower than the stock belly pan. The rest of the heater is still above the belly pan, so the only thing to risk would be the flexible exhaust, intake, and fuel lines, and luckily these are really inexpensive.
_________________
Check out my video series at www.youtube.com/midnightoilgarage
Current: 12 Fiat 500 Sport, 09 Ford Flex, 76 Westfalia 2L FI, 72 Euro Super Auto-Stick, 69 Type 1 Cal-Look, 56 Type 1
Past: 94 Jetta Diesel, 92 Golf, 79 Bradley GT, 74 Thing, 73 Super Euro Spec, 72 Super, 68 Type 1 Convertible, 66 Single Cab, 65 Beetle, 57 Type 1 Parts Car, 57 Porsche Speedster Kit Car (CMC), 00 New Beetle GLS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
LAGrunthaner
Samba Member


Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 3432
Location: 1st Coast
LAGrunthaner is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What was the total price on your heater?
Thanks Linda
_________________
My 67 Westfalia Pop-Top http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=301897
www.oacdp.org
http://www.vintagebus.com/techinfo/index.html

"Pay It Forward Club" in memory of Frank Clarici III
Favorite link: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/sambahighlights.php
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
fukengruvenoval
Samba Member


Joined: December 07, 2004
Posts: 774
Location: OSHAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA
fukengruvenoval is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linda Grunthaner wrote:
What was the total price on your heater?
Thanks Linda

The quick answer is "too much." From the dealer this setup is worth about $2K. I got mine through Ebay for just over $1K...
_________________
Check out my video series at www.youtube.com/midnightoilgarage
Current: 12 Fiat 500 Sport, 09 Ford Flex, 76 Westfalia 2L FI, 72 Euro Super Auto-Stick, 69 Type 1 Cal-Look, 56 Type 1
Past: 94 Jetta Diesel, 92 Golf, 79 Bradley GT, 74 Thing, 73 Super Euro Spec, 72 Super, 68 Type 1 Convertible, 66 Single Cab, 65 Beetle, 57 Type 1 Parts Car, 57 Porsche Speedster Kit Car (CMC), 00 New Beetle GLS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pb24ss
Samba Member


Joined: June 30, 2005
Posts: 1665
Location: sitting around the fire with the bluegrass band - colorado
pb24ss is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fukengruvenoval wrote:
Linda Grunthaner wrote:
What was the total price on your heater?
Thanks Linda

The quick answer is "too much." From the dealer this setup is worth about $2K. I got mine through Ebay for just over $1K...


My espar air heater project came in at around $1350. That's about half of what I paid for the westy. It's still a small price to pay for the enjoyment I've got out of the bus this winter, and for all the winters to come. The kids and I are going camping this weekend in the Colorado Rockies. Priceless.
_________________
78 P22 Westy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
davis911s
Samba Member


Joined: July 07, 2005
Posts: 964
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
davis911s is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine cost me just over $500 Total including buying the aux tank. And it is an AWESOME feature.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=272094&highlight=

Shawn
_________________
"I choose to use CAA on old cars with character...instead of car payments on a new car Smile "

1973 Westfalia, Camper Special with 75 FI. Automatic 003 . Non-pop top
1977 Porsche 911S Targa, 2.7 L with 5spd
1992 Passat G60 Syncro Wagon (SOLD)
1975 Westfalia (SOLD)
1979 Westfalia (SOLD)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
juanita76
Samba Member


Joined: June 12, 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Seattle
juanita76 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:35 pm    Post subject: what about water!?! Reply with quote

I was looking for gas heaters and i found out about coolant heaters. has anyone considered this, or better yet, done it? some are much cheaper than air heaters and it seems like it would be rather easy to rig an exchanger wherever you would want it/them!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...OTORS:1123

they also seem to have a lot higher BTU output even though most only get up to about 180 degrees which is a lot lower than most air temps, if you could move that coolant fast enough and keep it hot till it got to an exchanger with a good fan on it, it seems like it would be a really nice setup!!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I need all the advice I can get to help me heat my bus or my fiancee is never going to go anywhere with me for the next 8 months! I live in Seattle and I love driving in all the seasons, but my lady doesn't appreciate nature in its rawest forms like me (im sure this isnt the first thought about that here)
I have already fixed most of the issues with the exchanger heat but its only enough to keep the windshield defrosted and dry my eyes out, still a huge improvement on my last attempt:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


that thing only blocked a good portion of my view and slightly defrosted a 7" spot on the windsheild! I dont reccomend anyone bothering with this thing!! for 40 bucks you could get a good vw blower and some duct tape and have something alot more effective and less unsightly

also could you make a diesel powered heater run off WVO or biodeisel?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
josh
Samba Member


Joined: July 13, 2003
Posts: 1780
Location: laid back in the tall grass
josh is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the heater works anything like the old ebespachers having the cumbustion air intake hose dangling could be a major fire hazard.

The airflow around the hose causes a low pressure area around the hose which draws the flame out the intake, sort of a venturi effect. This is why the stock gas heaters had the hose draw air through a hole in one of the hollow frame rails.

I had the combustion air intake hose come off of the fitting and dangle down from my BA6. The hose did catch fire. Luckily I smelled the smoke and put the fire out before it spread.
_________________
modok wrote:
...If If stoner A takes a hit and then stoner B goes right away(not waiting two seconds), he's trying to suck on it while it's still got a vaccum, doesen't get much of a hit at all! Cause it hasn't filled back up all the way yet.

Stoner A is cylinders #2/4 B is #1/3 The plugged bowl is the throttle, the bong is the manifold
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
1975 Kombi
Samba Member


Joined: August 12, 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
1975 Kombi is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: what about water!?! Reply with quote

juanita76 wrote:


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Just a side note. Your house is stunning. My hideout is slightly larger then my bus and reminds me of Sanford & Sons from the late 70's. But I think my family is slightly more dysfunctional. You have two great pieces of art there juanita76. Great on ya.
_________________
Brett

Hes decieving you boy! Reach into his pocket and take what hes got. Mr. Crabbs.

75 Westy auto
03 Jetta TDI
71 SB
74 Westy
Licensed pilot (single engine land VFR)
--
Rust In Peace: 72 Bug, 73 Bug, 81 Rabbit LS D 2D, 83 Rabbit D 2D, 84 Jetta TD GL, 85 Jetta D, 68 Z28 RS 302, 91 Passat 16v
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Opossum
Samba Member


Joined: February 26, 2005
Posts: 684
Location: Islets of Langerhans
Opossum is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A coolant heater works only while the motor is running. The newer Espar/Eberspacher use less electricity and are not only good while driving, but are good for overnight camping. My suggestion is if the heat is only needed while driving; use the stock heater for heating the air and install heated seats to heat your body. They ones I installed have two heat ranges for each seat and they get really hot.
_________________
"You can lead an aircooled to water, but you can't make it drink"
"Live and learn or crash and burn"
"It's only Cool, If it's Air-Cooled"
Virginia Whiteface (Opossum) the first VW
Camper Special Club Member
1973 Orange Westfalia Hard top, Original owner
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
juanita76
Samba Member


Joined: June 12, 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Seattle
juanita76 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: I should clarify Reply with quote

As much as I'd love to, I can't take credit for that house, but you're right its beautiful! www.riverdanceleavenworth.com Its a vacation rental that my girlfriend and I stayed at in Leavenworth, WA.

Quote:
Opossum
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:51 am Post subject:
A coolant heater works only while the motor is running. The newer Espar/Eberspacher use less electricity and are not only good while driving, but are good for overnight camping. My suggestion is if the heat is only needed while driving; use the stock heater for heating the air and install heated seats to heat your body. They ones I installed have two heat ranges for each seat and they get really hot.


According to www.Mikuniheating.com their coolant heaters have their own pump and are designed to preheat and circulate the coolant in large diesel engines to prolong the life and let you use the regular cabin heat exchangers while the engine is off. as soon as i find one that is less than 1200 bucks i think im gunna go for it!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
regis101
Samba Member


Joined: July 28, 2005
Posts: 2026
Location: Livermore, Ca
regis101 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pb24ss. 232* is toasty.

Get that meter thermo thingy to give a reading of a daily driver waterpumper heater, any brand, to see what the temp is from the nominal 190* system.

I've always wondered what a cars hot air temp would be knowing that the coolant system runs a t-stat from 180 -225 degrees.

It would seem that the air temp would match what t-stat is used. Wondering if there is any loss due to transfer.
_________________
Peace, Regis
85 Wolfsburg Weekender
Yeah, I flogged it
http://vwcamperfamily.ning.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
fukengruvenoval
Samba Member


Joined: December 07, 2004
Posts: 774
Location: OSHAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA
fukengruvenoval is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was looking for gas heaters and i found out about coolant heaters. has anyone considered this, or better yet, done it? some are much cheaper than air heaters and it seems like it would be rather easy to rig an exchanger wherever you would want it/them!


A friend of mine rigged an ESPAR diesel coolant heater to heat his bus. He claims it works very well. The coolant heater has its own pump which recirculates coolant through is lines and a small heater core up in the cab. He claims it runs very well... He drove from Ontario, Canada to the Florida keys last year and used less than 5L of diesel..
_________________
Check out my video series at www.youtube.com/midnightoilgarage
Current: 12 Fiat 500 Sport, 09 Ford Flex, 76 Westfalia 2L FI, 72 Euro Super Auto-Stick, 69 Type 1 Cal-Look, 56 Type 1
Past: 94 Jetta Diesel, 92 Golf, 79 Bradley GT, 74 Thing, 73 Super Euro Spec, 72 Super, 68 Type 1 Convertible, 66 Single Cab, 65 Beetle, 57 Type 1 Parts Car, 57 Porsche Speedster Kit Car (CMC), 00 New Beetle GLS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pb24ss
Samba Member


Joined: June 30, 2005
Posts: 1665
Location: sitting around the fire with the bluegrass band - colorado
pb24ss is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

regis101 wrote:
pb24ss. 232* is toasty.

Get that meter thermo thingy to give a reading of a daily driver waterpumper heater, any brand, to see what the temp is from the nominal 190* system.


i've never had to pull my hand back when stuck in front of a regular automobile heater. my espar will burn me after just a few seconds if i were to leave it there.
_________________
78 P22 Westy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2016, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB