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Aftermarket injectors for 1.9 and 2.1 Vanagons
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mattcfish
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:18 pm    Post subject: Aftermarket injectors for 1.9 and 2.1 Vanagons Reply with quote

Anybody have experience with these..? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...amp;ih=016
Can't beat the price for new injectors.
I didn't realize that 82 Volvo's used the same injectors.
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tclark
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: Aftermarket injectors for 1.9 and 2.1 Vanagons Reply with quote

mattcfish wrote:
Anybody have experience with these..? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...amp;ih=016
Can't beat the price for new injectors.
I didn't realize that 82 Volvo's used the same injectors.


yah I just discovered the volvo 240 in my recent r&d

well they sure look like just a cleaned injector (and you can get that for 20/injectors or less) But they are In fact NEW #15501
Tomco is mfg http://www.tomco-inc.com/
6241, LEMAY FERRY ROAD, SAINT LOUIS - 63129,
and the phone#800-325-9972 or (314) 531-1530 Smile

15501 Port Fuel Injector 4 40.8236.74 146.96



i'd guess remart is new show
http://www.remartautoparts.com/
Registrant:
Q2 Investments LLC
1815 Highgrove Club Dr
Alpharetta, GA 30004
US
Rick Wakefield
Phone: 404-729-4975

give him a call:(
doing the cleaning any of the big boys will use a machine installed fi clamp and I'd give these a bye bye..
and get from gb for you want that price or better just get your cleaned cruzin/wichhunter unless they are leak'in then you might want to know your getting a guaranteed non-drippin injectors

I am in the process of getting some FIC truly rebuilt injectors
http://www.fuelinjectioncorp.com/products/injectors.php
see this thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=274334&highlight=

oh yah gb ram has the same price pt
http://www.fuelinjectorsoutlet.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=10&products_id=842


Last edited by tclark on Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:41 am; edited 17 times in total
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mattcfish
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject: These are new Reply with quote

These are made new by a company called Tomco Inc. http://www.tomco-inc.com/Port_Fuel_Injector.aspx . I searched the web for them. They design these to work with the Volvo 240 or the Vanagon. That's why the hose is removable
Tomco sells them for $40 each. You could by 4 new injectors for the price of one Bosch. Not sure how they perform or hold up though. Still, for that price you could almost replace them like spark splugs.[/url]
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: These are new Reply with quote

mattcfish wrote:
These are made new by a company called Tomco Inc.


how do you know these are NEW
except for the Q2 sellers where do you see that ?
looks at the plastic connectors they sure don't look new and the FI body looks just like my bosch injector in my hand except for the tmk logo wrap in the middle
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mattcfish
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: These are new Reply with quote

Quote:
how do you know these are NEW


Bosch injectors are yellow or blue-green. Even rebuilt ones.
These are black. The eBay listing says they are new.
I emailed Tomco. I'll let you know what they say.
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r39o
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just get your old ones cleaned. Or send a second set and just replace.

Remember nothing is free.

Buy cheap, get cheap.

I will not use those injectors, too much chance for a really bad failure.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Buy cheap, get cheap.

I will not use those injectors, too much chance for a really bad failure.


Might it be that Bosch injectors are just horribly over priced....They sort of have a corner on the market.
One could debate about which is better or worse. Cheap new that we have no facts about, or 23 year old
rebuilt that could start leaking in 3 years (as per recent post) Wink
Just curious if anyone has an opinion based on facts.
I need to get a set in the van while I get the Bosch ones rebuilt.
I've tried to get a used set (even non-reconditioned), but they sell for more than these Remart/Tomco ones on eBay.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattcfish wrote:
[
rebuilt that could start leaking in 3 years (as per recent post) Wink
.

dont confuse rebuilt with serviced Smile

I am with you here matt I called the 800 number but tech is OTL now but we will get the low down soon enuff

I did talk to 1 tomco retailer that said their experience with tomco injectors was good ...1 anecdotal experience ..

and yah at that price if the stainless steel is quality engineered and new I think this might be ok
but the price does not seem to allow quality

UPDATE:
got a call back from tech support at tomco
Yup BRAND SPANKING new
the guy raves about the product
-assembled in the us from outsourced components
-only 90 warranty why is this ???
-the clamp is installed to allow multi-application

yah know these for sure would make a good 2nd's
and at $100 fro the ebayer you cant really go wrong
from tech support

If you need information on the 15501 injector here are the only specs that are available.

They are rated 18.13 lbs per hour at 36.25 psi and they are 14-16 ohms saturated type.

Thank you,
Bob Cummings


Last edited by tclark on Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:42 am; edited 2 times in total
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mattcfish
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

but the price does not seem to allow quality


Roger that... $27.00 each makes me wonder how far I'd get with them.
$200 per injector on a 23 year old, obsolete vehicle, seems a bit strange as well.
Still, aren't things supposed to get cheaper as manufacturing technology and competition improve? Example, a $500 computer or TV sold today is better than a $1000 one from a few years back.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattcfish wrote:
Quote:

but the price does not seem to allow quality


Roger that... $27.00 each makes me wonder how far

well they only have 2 so you have to order 2 more from tomco to get a matched set
you want em ??
I think tomco does have ok quality now that i have vetted these guys abit
interesting stmt i heard over and over is that tomco is usually a a premium brand & they dont sell that well cus they are too expensive

also 1 of the people i talked to point this site out
http://ww1.autopartauctions.com
http://ww1.autopartauctions.com/auctions.asp?c=18&g=&p=2
surplus vw parts auctions
I'll wait till i see the closing prices but bosch injectors @ 48, afm for 48 but not closed price
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My two sets of spare used injectors cost me about $50 a set with shipping. Then I had Cruzin do his magic. I am OK happy.

Those injectors are pocket fodder if you find them in a bone yard, though.

I just do not have the time these days to go the Pick-A-Part...sigh...
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

well they only have 2 so you have to order 2 more from tomco to get a matched set
you want em ??
I think tomco does have ok quality now that i have vetted these guys abit
interesting stmt i heard over and over is that tomco is usually a a premium brand & they dont sell that well cus they are too expensive

I bought them. I'll get the other 2 from Tomco. I figure I can use them for a while and get the Bosch rebuilt. Who knows, maybe I'll want to keep them in.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you see these? Bosch, the real deal new $48.99 (two only)
http://ww1.autopartauctions.com/a.asp?A=805081&ap=10456&C=11&G=
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The official Tomco response

Tomco Sales,
I was wondering if you have information about how your injectors compare to Bosch injectors during manufacture, quality, and components. I just purchased your port injectors for my 85 VW Vanagon (#15501). How do you keep your price so much lower than Bosch? Id like to share your comments with my Automotive Chat Phorum. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=275025
Thanks
Matthew Cooper

Thank you recent inquiry,
We are an Aftermarket Company and do not have the expenses that an OEM (Original Equipment Manufacture) has therefore, we can price our parts lower. We use components for our injectors that meet and/or exceed the OEM specification and they go through the same testing procedure to verify they work correctly for the application listed in our catalog. We hope this answers your questions.
Thank you,
Bob Cummings
ASE-Certified
Parts Specialist
[email protected] **NEW EMAIL ADDRESS**
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice surprize. I just got some of my Tomco injectors. They are a different, and some say better design than the original Bosch injectors. These are "rotory disc" injectors not the standard "pintle" design. Rotory disc designed injectors are less effected by materials that would clog pintel injectors. Here's what one site had to say......
"These injectors incorporate a disk design rather than a pintle design. This gives the injector better spraying capability and resists clogging over the other design. Others claim that a pintle injector will lose up to 47% of its flow capability while the disk design will lose only up to 2%." http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pictureguides/injectors/32lb.html
The injectors are most likely made by Lucas. They are heavily built, the hoses are crimped on, and the tips are metal not plastic.
Witch hunter said they would test them for me for $32.00. I'll let you know what I find out.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More info from the Tomco files.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Lanval
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volvo injectors are a dime-a-dozen; if you get bored, head over to www.turbobricks.com and you'll find guys over there are using Ford injectors from mid-90's T-bird turbos because they give more gas or something. Anyway, there are a couple of options for replacing your injectors. In the FWIW box, a lot of Volvo guys also swear by getting Cruzin Perf. or the other place (can't remember their name, but there's another good place here on the West Coast) will work wonders on your old injectors.

What you can do is get a set of 5-6, and send 'em to Cruzin. Ask them to pick the best 4, and do those. Install them, and then send them the old injectors as a back up.

Best,

Lanval


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattcfish wrote:
Nic These are "rotory disc" injectors not the standard "pintle" design. Rotory disc designed injectors are less effected by materials that would clog pintel injectors.

I was wondering WHY they are less "effected"

Rotary disk design features a self-cleaning disk (no pintle) to prevent carbon deposits and clogged injectors.

I noted the flow rate is a bit higher
Tomco support:
18.13 lbs per hour at 36.25 psi
spec for bosch is
16.1lbs/hr, 36.3 psi

Actual Witch Hunter results:Tomco 15501/Lucas 5202003 (thx matt)
lbs/hr=16.7
rating PSI=36.25

not really much in it Bosch rating is 16.0 tomco/lucas 16.7 & really only an issue during warmup b4 o2 sensor/lamaba starts to take control


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quality comparisons aside (and there's no reason to reject these out of hand on that basis except perhaps for jingoistic superstition), and assuming the fit and spray pattern match OEM, tclark has hit on the main factor in compatibility: flow rate. The stock ECU determines injector duty cycle on the assumption that the injectors flow at a given rate at a given pressure. If the injector flow rate is higher, the actual fuel delivered to the intakes would be more under a given set of conditions. If that were all there was to it, you would find your fuel consumption going up by a factor of 18.13/16.1.

But that's not all there is to it. The lambda control system is going to take over and bring the warm-running mixture back to stoich, easily correcting for the higher flow rate, provided your o2 sensor is doing its job.

Where you might see a difference is during warmup, when the ECU runs open-loop, and at WOT when it does the same. Under WOT conditions the extra flow might be a benefit if your engine can utilise the fuel; that's an open question dependent on the state of tune and overall condition of your engine, but my guess is that the extra fuel would just be wasted. Fuel utilisation by these engines in stock tune is already pretty poor.

While warming up, the mixture will be richer, so that is something to watch for if it makes the motor run poorly until it hits the coolant temp threshhold where lambda takes over. Merely adjusting your CO screw is not likely to provide enough correction here; you may actually need to alter the basic AFM setting.

Other than those things, I can't see any good reasons not to give them a try.
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mattcfish
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I noted the flow rate is a bit higher
18.13 lbs per hour at 36.25 psi
spec for bosch is
16.1lbs/hr, 36.3 psi


I've been told on the EFI Forum that Lucas usually overstates the flow rate. I'll give Witch hunter this information when they test them for me ($8.00/injector).
Tomco says they meet the OE spec. We'll see.
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