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hpw
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2006
Posts: 3010
Location: memphis
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pbaptist
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2005
Posts: 1204
Location: Netherlands
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 Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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What is the difference between the Blue or Red fram??
There is a one for sale at E-bay if anybody is interested in a red one.
150161029933
Patrick
_________________
Dutch Karmann-Ghia and coachbuild lover.
1* Karmann Ghia Coupe (1966 Teak)
2* Karmann Ghia Convertible (1958, 1971)
4* Rometsch Lawrence (nr 534, 555, 558 and 561)
Karmann-Ghia Lowlight page and registry
Karmann-Ghia Collectibles database |
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Shorrock
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2005
Posts: 433
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| hpw wrote: |
| Any power estimates?^^^^ |
My Shorrock blown 40hp puts out just under 100hp at 7psi of boost. |
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hpw
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2006
Posts: 3010
Location: memphis
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Shorrock
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2005
Posts: 433
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| hpw wrote: |
| Shorrock wrote: |
| hpw wrote: |
| Any power estimates?^^^^ |
My Shorrock blown 40hp puts out just under 100hp at 7psi of boost. |
That is amazing  |
Here is the build:
Blueprinted 1200 case with factory cam bearings and 8mm oil pump studs
Counterweighted early 1500 69mm crank, & 1500 rods
NOS 1500 83mm pistons
NOS 83mm 40hp big bore cylinders & custom spacers with o-ring
Okrasa 40hp heads ported, cc & flowed
8:1 Compression
Web Cam custom grind (could not find a vintage one I liked)
1.25:1 Ratio Rockers
Rebuilt 25hp 383 distributor
Vintage NOS EMPI oil pump/filter combo
Shorrock model C75BV Supercharger with custom intakes to fit the Okrasa heads
SU HS6 side-draft variable venturi carb
Dog house oil cooler set up
EMPI “modified” header
Original restored 58 K/G tach setup
Full set of matching 64 NOS VDO gauges
Shorrock boost/vacuum gauge
Here it is during early testing:
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joe h.
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2005
Posts: 782
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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That is one of the nicest vintage speed engines I've seen!
I'm afraid Mr. "FRANKYLUCKMAN's" gonna top it with that Denzel in the split vert though.
That would make one cool drag race.  |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Shorrock wrote: |
| hpw wrote: |
| Shorrock wrote: |
| hpw wrote: |
| Any power estimates?^^^^ |
My Shorrock blown 40hp puts out just under 100hp at 7psi of boost. |
That is amazing |
Here is the build:
Blueprinted 1200 case with factory cam bearings and 8mm oil pump studs
Counterweighted early 1500 69mm crank, & 1500 rods
NOS 1500 83mm pistons
NOS 83mm 40hp big bore cylinders & custom spacers with o-ring
Okrasa 40hp heads ported, cc & flowed
8:1 Compression
Web Cam custom grind (could not find a vintage one I liked)
1.25:1 Ratio Rockers
Rebuilt 25hp 383 distributor
Vintage NOS EMPI oil pump/filter combo
Shorrock model C75BV Supercharger with custom intakes to fit the Okrasa heads
SU HS6 side-draft variable venturi carb
Dog house oil cooler set up
EMPI “modified” header
Original restored 58 K/G tach setup
Full set of matching 64 NOS VDO gauges
Shorrock boost/vacuum gauge
Here it is during early testing:
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That's a 383... 
_________________
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do |
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Shorrock
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2005
Posts: 433
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| 53 0val wrote: |
| Shorrock wrote: |
| hpw wrote: |
| Shorrock wrote: |
| hpw wrote: |
| Any power estimates?^^^^ |
My Shorrock blown 40hp puts out just under 100hp at 7psi of boost. |
That is amazing |
Here is the build:
Blueprinted 1200 case with factory cam bearings and 8mm oil pump studs
Counterweighted early 1500 69mm crank, & 1500 rods
NOS 1500 83mm pistons
NOS 83mm 40hp big bore cylinders & custom spacers with o-ring
Okrasa 40hp heads ported, cc & flowed
8:1 Compression
Web Cam custom grind (could not find a vintage one I liked)
1.25:1 Ratio Rockers
Rebuilt 25hp 383 distributor
Vintage NOS EMPI oil pump/filter combo
Shorrock model C75BV Supercharger with custom intakes to fit the Okrasa heads
SU HS6 side-draft variable venturi carb
Dog house oil cooler set up
EMPI “modified” header
Original restored 58 K/G tach setup
Full set of matching 64 NOS VDO gauges
Shorrock boost/vacuum gauge
Here it is during early testing:
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That's a 383... |
No it was an early NOS Mallory Dual Point Distributor. We were playing around with curves. It currently has a 383 Flat Top. Go back to the pic in the car. You'll also notice that the belt arraignment is the original Shorrock "W" belt that has been changed to a toothed belt of higher ratio.
I also got rid of the orginal SU electric fuel pump in favor of a modern one up front. |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Shorrock wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
Your VW will still be slow.  |
Depends on how you build your vintage old school performance motor. Mine is far from being slow. If one is spending real money this is the way to go. Wait, is was a fraction of the 22k Okrasa kit and is a whole lot faster.
I went this way to keep the integrity of the low mileage original car. Would have been easier and much cheaper to have gone modern, but that’s no fun.
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Yes, there it is...................very nice, clean look. Personally, I would get rid of the gold cad plate on the generator pulley. 
_________________
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do |
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Shorrock
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2005
Posts: 433
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| 53 0val wrote: |
| Shorrock wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| Your VW will still be slow. |
Depends on how you build your vintage old school performance motor. Mine is far from being slow. If one is spending real money this is the way to go. Wait, is was a fraction of the 22k Okrasa kit and is a whole lot faster.
I went this way to keep the integrity of the low mileage original car. Would have been easier and much cheaper to have gone modern, but that’s no fun.
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Yes, there it is...................very nice, clean look. Personally, I would get rid of the gold cad plate on the generator pulley. |
Yes, but you'll notice that I machined off the front lip for clearance, forget why, and have not put an orginal back on. Need to do! |
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Wolfgang1
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 139
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| Andy Sparks wrote: |
You really do not need to spend that much on these parts, you guys should look for mis-spellings. I got a set of heads, and a crank and cam off here for $600. Heads needed rebuilding, but their perfect now. Also bagged a NOS SPG crank for about $300.
Carbs are NOS, all the zorst, linkage, cooler, fuel lines, are from Mr Wob. I had a set of NOS tinware, Nos heater boxes. have a set of new mahle big pistons as well.
All in for about £2500, not bad really. Do like the exchange rate recently.  |
You`re a lucky guy, even for a 40HP kit. But it`s more difficult to get a 36hp kit at a reasonable price.
Wolfgang |
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Wolfgang1
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 139
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Shorrock wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| Your VW will still be slow. |
Depends on how you build your vintage old school performance motor. Mine is far from being slow. If one is spending real money this is the way to go. Wait, is was a fraction of the 22k Okrasa kit and is a whole lot faster.
I went this way to keep the integrity of the low mileage original car. Would have been easier and much cheaper to have gone modern, but that’s no fun.
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First, i like your motor, no doubt. I`m also a fan of forced induction.
Far from being slow, but how long? There`s a difference of driving in the US and in Europe (you`re from UK?)
I don`t believe that you can give full throttle with a shorrock or judson on long high speed periods without a intercooler.
(Forced induction setups are more for drag race or weekend pleasure. You`re right if you say, thats what we need nowadays.... )
With the okrasa kit you can.....in theory.
No one today chases his worthy "vintage speed" setup.
Another question: why did you use the expensive okrasa heads for this setup. They`re usefull for "all motors" but forced induction? no need for dual inlets.
I would have used a set of 44hp single inlets, they`re more sturdy and easier to replace.
But ok, okrasa heads with shorrock, it`s a "looker" 
Wolfgang |
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Shorrock
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2005
Posts: 433
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfgang1 wrote: |
| Shorrock wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| Your VW will still be slow. |
Depends on how you build your vintage old school performance motor. Mine is far from being slow. If one is spending real money this is the way to go. Wait, is was a fraction of the 22k Okrasa kit and is a whole lot faster.
I went this way to keep the integrity of the low mileage original car. Would have been easier and much cheaper to have gone modern, but that’s no fun.
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First, i like your motor, no doubt. I`m also a fan of forced induction.
Far from being slow, but how long? There`s a difference of driving in the US and in Europe (you`re from UK?)
I don`t believe that you can give full throttle with a shorrock or judson on long high speed periods without a intercooler.
(Forced induction setups are more for drag race or weekend pleasure. You`re right if you say, thats what we need nowadays.... )
With the okrasa kit you can.....in theory.
No one today chases his worthy "vintage speed" setup.
Another question: why did you use the expensive okrasa heads for this setup. They`re usefull for "all motors" but forced induction? no need for dual inlets.
I would have used a set of 44hp single inlets, they`re more sturdy and easier to replace.
But ok, okrasa heads with shorrock, it`s a "looker"
Wolfgang |
Hi Wolfgang,
I drive mine nearly everyday weather permitting and have over 8k miles (1300km) on the Shorrock. A great deal of those miles have been on open highway runs across Colorado and pulling very long steep >6% grades at over 10,000 feet (3km) at full throttle and have never had a minutes problem. I run premium unleaded, 7lbs of boost and keep it set right at 28 degrees full advance. Even with forced induction the better flowing heads give a slight increase in performance though not as much as naturally aspired, but will all the other high performance modifications it adds up. You can not even get close to 100hp out of an Okrasa Dual Port setup but I right at it. Besides, it is just fun watching the boost gauge pop when you put your foot in it.
Thanks for the kind words.
Top of Loveland Pass, 11,995 feet:
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Wolfgang1
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 139
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| Shorrock wrote: |
Hi Wolfgang,
I drive mine nearly everyday weather permitting and have over 8k miles (1300km) on the Shorrock. A great deal of those miles have been on open highway runs across Colorado and pulling very long steep >6% grades at over 10,000 feet (3km) at full throttle and have never had a minutes problem. I run premium unleaded, 7lbs of boost and keep it set right at 28 degrees full advance. Even with forced induction the better flowing heads give a slight increase in performance though not as much as naturally aspired, but will all the other high performance modifications it adds up. You can not even get close to 100hp out of an Okrasa Dual Port setup but I right at it. Besides, it is just fun watching the boost gauge pop when you put your foot in it.
Thanks for the kind words.
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Hello shorrock,
nice car, wow !
Colorado??? Ok, you (and the other citizens) own a very big "natural intercooler"
What are colorados average temperatures?
Here in germany in summer we have temperatures up to 86F and more, that`s killer for a blown vintage vw under full throttle longer than 10 minutes.....
But a blown engine is an advantage for your country with steep roads (and less oxygen the higher you drive... )
In winter i see no problem with forced induction, indifferent judson, shorrock or...???
I like this discussion, because i had a judson (i still have the setup, but the engine throw the thrd. ex valve through the engine ), steep roads with full throttle were no problem (and were a real pleasure with the judson), because they are "short" and changing, but in germany there are no speed limits on highways.
Your highway speed limit in the US? 55mph? no problem to drive that for hours, but 80-90 mphs here in germany with a blown vintage vw, no chance!
What is your max. cruising speed? I see the advantage of the Karmanns better air resistance, that makes the same speed at lower throttle than with a beetle.
100hp, no way with an okrasa setup, that`s right, but i believe it`s possible with forced induction, you did a dyno run?
Wolfgang |
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Shorrock
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2005
Posts: 433
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfgang1 wrote: |
| Shorrock wrote: |
Hi Wolfgang,
I drive mine nearly everyday weather permitting and have over 8k miles (1300km) on the Shorrock. A great deal of those miles have been on open highway runs across Colorado and pulling very long steep >6% grades at over 10,000 feet (3km) at full throttle and have never had a minutes problem. I run premium unleaded, 7lbs of boost and keep it set right at 28 degrees full advance. Even with forced induction the better flowing heads give a slight increase in performance though not as much as naturally aspired, but will all the other high performance modifications it adds up. You can not even get close to 100hp out of an Okrasa Dual Port setup but I right at it. Besides, it is just fun watching the boost gauge pop when you put your foot in it.
Thanks for the kind words.
|
Hello shorrock,
nice car, wow !
Colorado??? Ok, you (and the other citizens) own a very big "natural intercooler"
What are colorados average temperatures?
Here in germany in summer we have temperatures up to 86F and more, that`s killer for a blown vintage vw under full throttle longer than 10 minutes.....
But a blown engine is an advantage for your country with steep roads (and less oxygen the higher you drive... )
In winter i see no problem with forced induction, indifferent judson, shorrock or...???
I like this discussion, because i had a judson (i still have the setup, but the engine throw the thrd. ex valve through the engine ), steep roads with full throttle were no problem (and were a real pleasure with the judson), because they are "short" and changing, but in germany there are no speed limits on highways.
Your highway speed limit in the US? 55mph? no problem to drive that for hours, but 80-90 mphs here in germany with a blown vintage vw, no chance!
What is your max. cruising speed? I see the advantage of the Karmanns better air resistance, that makes the same speed at lower throttle than with a beetle.
100hp, no way with an okrasa setup, that`s right, but i believe it`s possible with forced induction, you did a dyno run?
Wolfgang |
The longer road trips I take are all during the summer and temps can range from 60 in the morning to 90 in the afternoon. Most of our highways are posted 75 out of the mountains and I can run 80 to 85 for hours without problems. I do not run head temp gauges but the oil never gets over 220 on the hardest pulls. My best speed racing with a new Mini was just short of the 0 miles indicator then I backed off as the winds picked up a bit. The Judson will definitely heat up running full throttle for an extended period due to the friction caused by the sliding vanes. The Shorrock does not have the same problem as the vanes never come in contact with the walls or end plates. Running 85 down the highway requires no more than a couple of pounds of boost (<70hp maybe) with my engine setup. That is the benefit of the better breathing heads, cam, 1.2:1 rockers, and 8.25: 1 compression. This is all at better than a mile high! Yes it has been on the dyno several times with different components and ratios. There have been many racing and endurance records set with the Shorrock for over 50 years on every kind of early engine from Jag to VW. I am a very rare and happy fellow to be running one.
Best of wishes running down the highways! |
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Mase
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 222
Location: Thornton, CO
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Shorrock wrote: |
Top of Loveland Pass, 11,995 feet:
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Hey Howard... I love that photo!!!
_________________
Rich
Thornton, CO
'64 T34 Ghia Coupe
'74 T14 Ghia Cabrio |
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Shorrock
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2005
Posts: 433
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Mase wrote: |
| Shorrock wrote: |
Top of Loveland Pass, 11,995 feet:
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Hey Howard... I love that photo!!! |
Really wish you had been with us!! |
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