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Spun Rear Drum, Axle Nut Removal? *SOLVED!*
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ninja90177
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:01 pm    Post subject: Spun Rear Drum, Axle Nut Removal? *SOLVED!* Reply with quote

So, like the title says.

Leaving out of the apartments this morning and jumped on it getting out into traffic. Safely got it off the road without any further damage.Lifted up the rear end and the driver's side is wasted.

How should I go about removal? I don't have a whole lot of tools at my disposal, but enough to do the job if the drum weren't busted. My only thought was to pick up a new stub axle from a local scrap yard and just take a sawzall to the one on the car.

Any thoughts or ideas?

EDIT - pics and vid below with explanation.

Thanks guys!
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Last edited by ninja90177 on Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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uberautowerks
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can do it!
Get this tool...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

And a 3/4" breaker bar.
Leave the car on it's wheels, set the parking brake, put the trans in 1st, pull the cotter pin, push down with your foot on the breaker bar while you hit the flats on the tool with a big ass hammer. If your parking brake doesnt work have a helper... um... help, by stepping on the brake pedal.
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ninja90177
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks uber.

Unfortunately, i've tried that one, as well as the other torque tool for removing the axle nut, it just spins. I even had 2 people sit on the back bumper while I tried it. Just not quite enough.

I may have approached it wrong, but i'll try it again tomorrow.

Thanks again.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With a spun rear drum even all that sometimes won't be enough..... I have had to get a larger pipe wrench and ( have some one hold) the CV axle shaft or even get the wrench to lock in place using the ground to get a really stubborn nut loose when the drum was spun a couple of times in the past.

Also you could use the sawzall but I would attack the nut in that case and cut it off not the stub axle.
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uberautowerks
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can give you a tip that WILL work, but it can be a bit dangerous.
PM me if you want it. Really it's not for the masses!
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ninja90177
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks keifernet

I thought about throwing something on the axle to hold it in place against the ground, and unleashing the fury on the axle nut, but didn't really wanna tear or grind up the axle.

I think I can cut the axle nut at an angle and partially drive a chisel into the middle (not all the way to the splines) to spread it out and loosen it up.

I'll try that and take some pics in case someone else runs into this in the future.
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ninja90177
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uberautowerks wrote:
I can give you a tip that WILL work, but it can be a bit dangerous.
PM me if you want it. Really it's not for the masses!


Haha! I'm still sorta recovering from a neck injury, and permanently removed the word "dangerous" from my vocabulary. However, you've sparked the curiosity in me. I think I need to know now.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ninja90177 wrote:
Thanks keifernet

I thought about throwing something on the axle to hold it in place against the ground, and unleashing the fury on the axle nut, but didn't really wanna tear or grind up the axle.

I think I can cut the axle nut at an angle and partially drive a chisel into the middle (not all the way to the splines) to spread it out and loosen it up.

I'll try that and take some pics in case someone else runs into this in the future.


The most damage it can do is put a few teeth marks in it like you see on water/steel pipe from plumber/fitters wrenching the pieces tight.

It works, but you do have to have access to one of the larger variety pipe wrenches.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I can find a 36" pipe wrench in my garage somewhere. I guess it pays to do the work that I do.

I painted the axles, but I guess i'm just being a pansy. A few teeth marks won't do anything.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ninja90177 wrote:
uberautowerks wrote:
I can give you a tip that WILL work, but it can be a bit dangerous.
PM me if you want it. Really it's not for the masses!

However, you've sparked the curiosity in me.


I'm kind of curious too.

The only stupid thing I can come up with is driving the car with the cheater pipe on the nut. Thats Darwin material though.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:51 am    Post subject: spun drum Reply with quote

Following the premise that the only dumb question is the one left un-asked, what is a spun drum? I've never heard this before.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: spun drum Reply with quote

super74beetle wrote:
Following the premise that the only dumb question is the one left un-asked, what is a spun drum? I've never heard this before.


This should get you up to speed... Very Happy

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=263223&highlight=drum
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow that's new one on me too. Gonna go check the torque on mine soon.
That looks like a fun day to remove.

I wonder if one of that strap wrenches would work to hold the axle with out scratching it to hell?

If nothing else I'll break out my knot tying skills and tie up some knots to hold it in place, sailors might know what I'm thinking.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never knew that would actually hapen to a drum brakes i better know the touque spec on the axle nuts does any one know?
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Bigdummy1962
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sears sells a nut splitter for about 8 bucks Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject: spun drum Reply with quote

Thanks for the info Keifernet. One thing I do not understand is why the car can't be driven at all when this happens? Doesn't the other side also drive it's tire? Separately from the stripped side. Is it the drum that strips or the axle splines. Or both?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brett Ross wrote:
I never knew that would actually hapen to a drum brakes i better know the touque spec on the axle nuts does any one know?

Bentley manual says 253 ft lbs. Use this and torque it to 28 -30 ft lb. (252-270).
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D7036
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: spun drum Reply with quote

super74beetle wrote:
Thanks for the info Keifernet. One thing I do not understand is why the car can't be driven at all when this happens? Doesn't the other side also drive it's tire? Separately from the stripped side. Is it the drum that strips or the axle splines. Or both?

Without a limited slip differential, the power goes to the wheel with the least traction, or in this case, least resistance. The axle on the spun drum side will spin while the good one just sits there.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:33 pm    Post subject: spun drum Reply with quote

I hadn't thought of a differential like that. I did not know how v.w.'s were made. It's always a good day when you learn something new. Thanks.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, I got it off. Took a bit of work and alot of thinking, but ultimately, it's off.

The problem . . .


Link


I started with this . . . it wouldn't bite down on the axle, and the 36" was the only one I had. Note the bag with the spare axle nuts and pins. I keep a set of these in the car.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


My next approach. A 12-pack, sawzall, and a bottle of mapp gas. This ended up taking about 5 mins compared to the 1 1/2 hours spent trying to get the pipe wrench on the axle (and drinking a few beers). I made a decent relief cut, and hosed it with fire for about 30 secs and it was about finger tight (seriously) afterwards. It was originally torqued to spec. I left about 1/8" of meat on the axle nut. I was weary of going in much further. I also made a relief cut on the other side of the nut.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Cut the back part off the nut, as it was chewing up my blades. Thin enough, and sawing went faster after removing the the back. Also, a few relief cuts around the diameter.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



So, what did I end up with? An untouched stub axle, and a cheap-ass brazilian drum, machined out by Germany's finest! Note the incredibly fine powder that is now ex-drum splines sprinkled about on the stub axle.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Note the horrid machining done on the drum. This would attribute to the failed bearing, that probably caused the shit drum to be demolished.

Let this be a lesson, if you haven't already heard it a thousand times.

Don't cheap out on your ride. It WILL come back to haunt you. Also, you'll be replacing more than just the busted part.

I'm learning this now, but i'll be doing my own brake jobs from here on out. No more shop work for me.

Kenney

Questions or comments are welcomed. This was a first for me.
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