auto transmission pan gasket and transmission cooler options

[hiram6]

Had a very slight leak of ATF from the filler tube a few weeks ago, so I ordered the auto trans service kit from van-cafe to do the whole service, which includes a new rubber seal for the bottom pan. I removed the filler tube, dropped the pan, replaced the filter and all that stuff, and then put in the new rubber seal around the transmission pa, I used a cross-hatch tightening method to bolt tha pan up, Reattached the filler tube using a little teflon paste.

So, no leak at the filler tube, no problem there.

BUT, I now I have a leak at the front edge of the pan. Leaving quite a mess in my driveway and on the bottom of my engine. I'm having to add1/4 bottle of ATF every week or so, never had to do that before. Essentially I moved the leak, and made it way worse.

So, what did I do wrong? The rubber seal is installed dry, right? No gasket maker or silicone, right??

Any hints??

BTW, 85 1.9 in case that makes any difference.
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1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning.

[captainpartytime]

I usually lube up the gasket with ATF before installing the pan. The gaskets usually seem pretty dry and warped from sitting in the package for a while. I'm guessing you could use a thin layer of RTV on the tranny case to fill any imperfections in the metal.
_________________
-Kerry

1982 turbo diesel Westfalia

[hiram6]

OK, I'll give that a shot. would really like to stop marking my territory with such volume.
_________________
1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning.

[hiram6]

What should my pan bolts be torqued to?? I've been through the Bentley, and can't find it. Not saying it's not there, just that I can't find it.

Anyone know???
_________________
1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning.

[allsierra123]

I dont think its specific on the pan. Atleast I have never heard of it. I have the same problem with mine still leaks after I put a new gasket on it. Im wondering if the PO didnt bottom it out and tweak it a bit.
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95 GMC Yukon 6.5 TD 2 Door Tow pig/ Daily driver.
91 Vanagon GL. 1.9TD Conversion Sold
81 Vw rabbit 1.6 Diesel. Sold

[Alan Brase]

I've actually never done a AT pan on a Vanagon. (I have one, but it is nice in that respect). But often on replacing pans and valve covers on other vehicles, I eyeball or use a straightedge on the rail and make sure the pan rail is straight. Very often somebody has tightened them already and deformed the metal. A small hammer (10-16 oz. body hammer is best) and a straight bench edge or even better, an anvil, and a few taps and we are good to go.
I guess the other thing is to make sure is IS the pan gasket and not something above it, like the governor housing, or the converter.But the converter would be leaving a spot further back.
And yes, they should be torqued evenly. It's a pretty small number, though, like 7 ftlb. I don't have such a functional torque wrench, myself. I use a srewdriver handle for a 3/8" socket and hopefully, I'm getting them pretty uniform.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home

[hiram6]

Okay, I'll snug it verrrrry lightly. It is a fairly thick rubber gasket, so not much torque should be required to seal it.

I did the straight edge trick and did smooth down a raised lip around each of the four bolt holes where the pan had been overtightened at some point. Just a touch. Hopefully this will do it. I'll park it in a different place tonight to see if it marks the concrete with ATF again.
_________________
1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning.

[Alan Brase]

I might add, this would probably be an okay place for the "Right Stuff" gasket material. I'm pretty sure that is what Subies use from new. (I have to take apart a Subie trannie real soon- hoping to find a loose wire just under the pan!) Parts dept said: no filter, no gasket. We shall see.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home

[hiram6]

OK, update on this, I dropped the pan, and checked the surface of the mounting lip with a straight edge. No problem, it's straight on all 4 sides. I checked my gasket, it seems fine, so I bolt it back up with a very thin smearing of gasket-making RTV on the gasket.

Still leaks!!!

So, now I'm starting to wonder if it is leaking from somewhere else higher up of the transmission. The drips are coming from the front (furthest from the engine) side of the transmission, with the driver's corner seeming to be the worst spot.

What other vents/gaskets do I need to check??
_________________
1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning.

[captainpartytime]

I have a leak where the selector cable attaches to a lever with a shaft going into the body of the tranny. You might want to check that spot. I think there is an o-ring on that shaft that can be replaced. Others can chime in on how tough it is to replace that o-ring.
_________________
-Kerry

1982 turbo diesel Westfalia

[danno]

The trans cooler is mounted to the front of the trans above the front trans mount it could be that?
When I did my pan up before I tightened the pan bolts up I could look around the edges of the pan to see if the gasket had slipped inside it seamed like it was a smige to small and I had to pull one conner out with a pick and push the pan up buy hand and the tightened the bolts. When it is all tightened up you can look around the edges to see if the seal is in properly if it looks straight along the edges and around the corners.
_________________
Dan
Comox BC
86 Wolfsburg Weekender
92 Golf 4dr
93 Beta Synt Trials Bike.

[hiram6]

You know, I was wondering if the trans cooler could be the culprit. It's hard to tell where it's leaking from by just looking underneath the van. It leaks most heavily when the van is underway, so the ATF kind of blows all over the front of the transmission.

I'm seein absolutely no coolant leak, just ATF. Is it typical of the cooler to just leak ATF, and not coolant??

How big a bear is removing/replacing that cooler? Haven't dug out my Bentley yet, just wondering how other shadetree mecanics felt about this particular task.

Also, has anyone "upgraded" to the seperate transmission cooler that Smallcar.com sells?? It's less expensive than the factory style cooler, and eliminates the dreaded coolant/ATF mix. Any endoresements or criticisms??
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1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning.

[Perales]

You have of course read this...
http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=305
I'll just stick it in the thread for those who haven't and are searching this topic.
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-- 1987 Westfalia automatic (Captain Vino)

[hiram6]

Yes, I did read that, so I'm going to change the cooler out anyway as a regular act of maintenance. If it also cures my ATF leakage, then double-win.

Now my question is two-fold. One, how big a pain is this swap-out, and two, is the auxilary cooler (the smallcar option, we'll call it) a good path to persue? Inquiring minds want to know.
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1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning.

[pete000]

This is my fear, I guss thats why my service kit is still sitting in the box on my work bench.
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1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
--------------------
Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats

[schwaia]

Here's a link to the service specs for the Vanagon A/T:

http://www.vanagonparts.com/at_service.html

Cheers,

Jeff

[Broseph]

I have all the parts set up and waiting for my tranny cooler upgrade. Bought all of the AN fittings and adapters at good prices from JEGS, and I have an Empi radiator unit that is about 30-50% larger than the SmallCar unit. This one:http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D9217 Obviously all you need is the radiator though, not the rest of the stuff in that pic.

I wanted to go with 90 degree swivel fittings as opposed to the serrated nipple and hose clamp set up that smallcar uses because they are less prone to anything ever yanking the hose off the fitting or other drastic failure. I also sprung for high grade stainless wrapped hose. My tranny is already out for an engine conversion, so its a good time for me to do the job, but its also a good upgrade for general peace of mind as well as better cooling in that area. The radiator unit goes in the passenger side alleyway under the van. Here's a pic under the 'transaxle' section of the Weide Family website: http://www.weidefamily.net/vanagon/

All you need is two adapters to screw into the tranny outlet and inlet, four 90 degree swivel fittings, two more adapters for the mini radiator, and the hose. I went as large as seemed possible with -AN 8. The tranny inlet/outlet fittings are 12x1.5mm, and the fittings at the mini radiator, for mine, are 1/2" NPT thread into the radiator to -8AN out to the swivel fitting. Add 6 feet of good -8AN hose and bada bing.

I read on another post a while ago by the shaman 10 cent that he used and is very happy with some new school Aeroquip brand hose and fittings that are completely clampless. You just stick the hoses on and go.

Word,
Broseph
_________________
86' Vanagon Campah-maybe someday with a turbochargah

01' VW GTI with a turbochargah

My great grandfather came over on the boat from Germany my friends, and 60 years and a couple a wars fought by my Gramps and Papa later, I would be born a Rhode Islander. First itch for a VW van was at 19, but she didn't find me 'til I made 28. True story.

[Broseph]

Here's my exact parts list from JEGS. The radiator unit I have was part of an engine oil cooler kit I bought from Bus Boys and never used...similar kit to the one on the cip website. Should be able to get the unit alone from Empi. Its a more rugged design than the Hayden radiators for example. It could take a few shots from road debris and what have you.

Total cost is ball park cost of the smallcar kit but way bettah components this way.


Tranny Inlet/Outlet to Swivel Fitting
-8AN to 12mm x 1.5 Adapter
Part Number # 361-9919EFG
2@$13.99 each

Hose
Pro-Flo 200 Series Braided Hose
-8 AN-6' length
Part Number # 555-100921
1@$29.99 each

Swivel Fittings
90° Max Flow Swivel Hose End -8AN
Part Number # 555-100022
4@$14.99 each

Radiator to Swivel Fitting
Blue Straight Flare Fitting
1/2" NPT to -8AN flare
Part Number # 555-100109
2@$5.49 each

I think the system will add at least a quart to total tranny juice capacity too. More lube....cue Beavis and Butthead laughter....
_________________
86' Vanagon Campah-maybe someday with a turbochargah

01' VW GTI with a turbochargah

My great grandfather came over on the boat from Germany my friends, and 60 years and a couple a wars fought by my Gramps and Papa later, I would be born a Rhode Islander. First itch for a VW van was at 19, but she didn't find me 'til I made 28. True story.

[[email protected]]

Hiram, the "cooler" is just held on tothe tranny via Banjo bolts. the seals are orings between cooler/tranny and cooler bolt head. you pretty much have to drop the nose of the tranny down off the frame to access (easier than it sounds) undo the banjo, bolts, pull cooler loose from tranny and replace orings and reinstal. onbly fluid loss is going to be tranny fluid from the inlet/outlet holes not any from the cooling system (unless you want to take the cooler totally off the van).


I had a leak at the govener oring on mine, thought it was the pan as it seeps right down tot he pan area and then spreads all over the pan. Fixed that and have been good for a few years till recently. I'm leaving a spot in the drive now and have to gt under there this week to check out

_________________
Markus

[hiram6]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm still debating between replacing the o-rings to solve the leak (less expensive) and replacing the stock unit with one of the external cooling set-ups. (better long-term fix)

I also took the liberty of changing the thread title to make future searches a little easier for others.


_________________
1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning.