Clutch slave question

[ranchero]

Scenario: I put in a new Luk clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing to be prudent with my new subaru conversion. All of the previous clutch system was working well before I started 4 weeks ago. I've got everything back together. I've bled lines using wife on the pedal method, vacuum bleeder, backflushing the slave using oil can, etc. Still, the slave cylinder doesn't seem to move the clutch lever enough to fully engage the clutch.

If the engine is running I can't get the transmission in gear. If I switch the engine off, I can then depress the clutch, shift into any gear and then start the engine and drive, but still can't shift.

I was planning on ordering a new slave, and possibly a master. But there are no visible leaks in the lines, slave or master so I'm not sure that any of those are the culprit. This morning I was able to compress the slave cylinder by hand. It took a bit of effort - a solid push upward with my thumb. Should I be able to do that?

Thanks
Steve
_________________
'90 Westy Syncro EJ25 (money pit #1)
'96 FZJ80 (cheap by comparison^^)
'13 Golf R. Daily driver.

[ranchero]

So I had my wife push the clutch while I measured the movement of the clutch lever that the slave cylinder actuates. It moves less than 1/2" That doesn't seem like enough. Comments?

Right now I'm thinking I'll just go ahead and order a new slave and master.
_________________
'90 Westy Syncro EJ25 (money pit #1)
'96 FZJ80 (cheap by comparison^^)
'13 Golf R. Daily driver.

[ftp2leta]

[ftp2leta]

[ranchero]

thanks Ben! I wonder what the total possible travel of the slave is? I can compress it upwards about an inch, and it goes down when the clutch is pressed by about 1/2", so there is at least 1.5" there. The pressure plate is torqued to the flywheel per Bentley specs.
_________________
'90 Westy Syncro EJ25 (money pit #1)
'96 FZJ80 (cheap by comparison^^)
'13 Golf R. Daily driver.

[ftp2leta]

[tencentlife]

Check the pedal freeplay before doing any work on the hydraulic systems, brake or clutch. Move the pedal down from its rest position with your hand. You should feel the pedal lever move freely for a bit, and then feel it engage the master cylinder pushrod, and finally feel the cylinder piston begin to be pushed forward. The first phase of movement should be about 1/2" as measured at the lower edge of the pedal. This is true of every clutch or brake hydraulic system in any car.

There has to be free play to be sure the piston is able to return to its back stop fully with every stroke. That is so it exposes the intake port from the reservoir. That lets the system take up or release fluid as needed to correct the working volume of fluid in the system to compensate for wear. It's also to release pressure in the system as fluid heats up from use, not so much in the clutch system but that part is a big deal in the braking system.

There has to be free play, but there can't be too much, as the range of movement of the pedal is limited and you don't want to use it all up taking up slack due to worn linkage parts at the pedal.

Unfortunately, adjusting the clutch pedal freeplay on a Vanagon is a tough sell because there is not the usual allowance of an adjustable pushrod. If there are worn components in the linkage, the best remedy is to replace them. The vanagon clutch system usually suffers from too much slop in the pedal linkage, not too little freeplay. In most cars you can adjust the pushrod length to compensate.

So, it may not be your problem, but you have to start at the beginning. Slop in the pedal linkage will limit the range of movement of the entire system so you can't fully disengage the clutch. Insufficient freeplay will not allow the system to take up fluid to replace air that you bleed out of the system, nor to correct it's volume as components wear. So check that out first.

It is normal to be able to force the slave piston back with your hand. That actually shows that the reservoir port isn't totally blocked, but it could still be partially blocked due to insufficient free play so that as you bleed air from the system, fluid isn't flowing into the master on pedal return. So always check the freeplay first, make sure there is some, but not too much slop in the pedal linkage.
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[ranchero]

All,

Thanks for all your comments. My freeplay is about 1/2".

I'm still mystified by this. I've solved my problem, but not sure why I had it to begin with. Installed new slave and master. That improved it - could shift into 3rd and 4th with engine running, but not 1,2,R, or L.

Again, did a wife bleed, vacuum bleed, pressure bleed. no go.

Decided that problem was not enough travel of clutch lever. I found a few nylon bushings that fit into the cup of the pushrod. Problem solved. In the long term, I'll make an adjustable one.

The fixin's for an adjustable pushrod are on the left. The ATE pushrod in the middle and the FTE pushrod on the right. I'll cut the head off one of the allens and shape it into the tapered shape of the other pushrods. Tim on the subaruvanagon list also noted that an acorn nut would work well on the top.

_________________
'90 Westy Syncro EJ25 (money pit #1)
'96 FZJ80 (cheap by comparison^^)
'13 Golf R. Daily driver.

[Alan Brase]

[dr. no]

Anything come from the adjustable pushrod? I seem to be having the same problem, new master, new slave, new rubber hose, and altogether not pushing the arm down enough to disengage the clutch fully (from :47 to :45 to use the clock anology). I added a spacer, but to no avail, it seems to not push any farther. With a prybar I can wedge the arm to the :42 position and the clutch releases (I know, because it started to roll ). I've already replaced the slave with another new one (same batch) and would next do the same for the master before pulling the tranny for the clutch job. Any other ideas? Please?
_________________
Scott
http://lungehphoto.com

'83.5 Westy s/p 1.6td JX and 4sp DK transplant--wonderful!
'86 MB 300GD
'06 MB Sprinter
'17 BMW X1
'89 Isuzu Trooper


PAST VWs:
'82 NA diesel Vanagon
'86 7-passenger Vanagon
'77 Bay
'71 Bay
'74 Things (2)
'69 Karmann Ghia (the only one I miss--in nice weather, anyway...)
'91 Fox

[dr. no]

Oh yes, assume that it was bled completely and competantly.
_________________
Scott
http://lungehphoto.com

'83.5 Westy s/p 1.6td JX and 4sp DK transplant--wonderful!
'86 MB 300GD
'06 MB Sprinter
'17 BMW X1
'89 Isuzu Trooper


PAST VWs:
'82 NA diesel Vanagon
'86 7-passenger Vanagon
'77 Bay
'71 Bay
'74 Things (2)
'69 Karmann Ghia (the only one I miss--in nice weather, anyway...)
'91 Fox

[levi]

Strange situation... I just recently switched tranny's, from an 83 manual, to an 85 manual.
Since the tranny was the only thing swapped, and I just put in a new pilot bearing, and TO bearing, even swapped over the new slave, I was surprised that the disengagement point changed. Used to be at about 1/2 the travel of the clutch pedal, but now is less than 1" from the floor.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40

[Alan Brase]

[dr. no]

How would that affect how far the arm travels?
_________________
Scott
http://lungehphoto.com

'83.5 Westy s/p 1.6td JX and 4sp DK transplant--wonderful!
'86 MB 300GD
'06 MB Sprinter
'17 BMW X1
'89 Isuzu Trooper


PAST VWs:
'82 NA diesel Vanagon
'86 7-passenger Vanagon
'77 Bay
'71 Bay
'74 Things (2)
'69 Karmann Ghia (the only one I miss--in nice weather, anyway...)
'91 Fox

[levi]

[Tracey]

I found this post while searching through the archives and wanted to share my findings.
I had a clutch pedal that was not going all the way to the floor and after a clutch replacedment and some phone calls I still had the same problem. The clutch pedal would stop short of going to the floor by about an inch or better. I found this post and tried putting a spacer in between the cross shaft lever and the end of the slave push rod. That allowed my pedal to go all the way to the floor. Something was wrong either inside the slave or at one time someone used the wrong push rod for the wrong slave. I took the old slave out and found that the slave was a FTE with a ATE rod installed in it. I ordered a new slave (FTE with the correct rod as pictured) and installed it today and everything is back to normal!!
I think because of the shorter rod being used the slave was actually maxing out its throw internaly. It always felt like it was a mechanical stop that was not letting the pedal go any further.
The slave that was in my van was a used slave from a donor van that was used for a big project for my van so other than knowing it worked I had not drove that donor van much to realize that it was faulty.
Thank you Samba for having such a good archive of information and a big thanks to those I PM and phoned to talk shop about this issue. I sure hope this can help others as well.
Tracey

[Jake de Villiers]

[Tracey]

[Jake de Villiers]

"Hello Jake!!
I got my new clutch slave from Van Cafe. "

Weird - I looked on their site and they only list the ATE...
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com

[Jake de Villiers]

Hey Steve, could you post the two pushrod lengths for us?

Thanks, Jake
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com