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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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 Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: Motronic CMP error (Jetta conversion) question |
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Hi all.
I have a DTC code I'm trying to sort out. This is for a Jetta ABA OBD1 engine I put in my Westy.
2113. CMP. (camshaft position sensor).
With codes cleared, I shut ignition off, then turn ignition on (NOT engine). I check codes, and 2113 is back
The code happens as soon as I turn on the ignition. So.....
Does this mean my trouble shooting might be limited to wiring/CMP (hall) sensor issues?
I know a CMP code can also mean the timing is off. But for the life of me I can't get the cam/crank/intermediate shaft timing any closer than ~ 1/2 tooth off.
I'm hoping the CMP fault is not because of this, hence my question.
Thanks much,
Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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smokeymountaindub
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Joined: March 07, 2008
Posts: 44
Location: Swannanowhere
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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1/2 tooth off on the timing shouldn't throw codes. Mine is at least that much off due to a headspacer. 
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1985 Vanagon GL
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Dogpilot
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Joined: October 03, 2005
Posts: 4205
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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If it comes on when you reset, then it is most likely an error generated during self test. I would carefully check the wire continuity and check for shorts. Then I would suspect the sensor for a failure. The other potential for an error is wrong plug on wrong sensor.
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Geology with a Syncro rocks!
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BIGTSV
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Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 593
Location: Columbus Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogpilot wrote: |
| If it comes on when you reset, then it is most likely an error generated during self test. I would carefully check the wire continuity and check for shorts. Then I would suspect the sensor for a failure. The other potential for an error is wrong plug on wrong sensor. |
I agree with the above post.
I also would like to hear the results of your swap when you are done!
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Common fault. The coolant flange on the head leaks. Connection gets messed up. Got an A3 Cabbie that did that just last week in the shop. You will have to sort out. Usually new wire ends are in order. On a bad day the sensor is bad from corrosion. Do not forget a new plastic flange and lube the O ring.
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
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Vanagon Nut
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Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| r39o wrote: |
| Common fault. The coolant flange on the head leaks. Connection gets messed up. ..... Usually new wire ends are in order. On a bad day the sensor is bad from corrosion. Do not forget a new plastic flange and lube the O ring. |
r39o:
Thanks much.
The coolant *flange/seal is new.
Re: "connection". Are you referring to the 3 pin connector on side of dizzy, or a connector to CMP sensor mounted on the head?
The CMP on my ABA is mounted on the dizzy.
If need be, I'll pull the dizzy and inspect the sensor.
Thanks for the tips.
*FWIW newbies, if you're running a manual Vanagon, but have an "auto" donor ABA and want to replace this coolant flange, buy the "manual" tranny coolant flange. And FWIW, I found a great fitting hose to run from this flange to connect w/Vanagon heater hose run. I have the PN somewhere....
Smokeymountaindub:
appreciate that info regarding your timing belt experience. I assumed, from what I had read, that the timing belt would throw a code if not dead on. Good to know 1/2 tooth doesn't do that.
(are you using Motronic?)
DogPilot:
Thanks for confirming what I was suspecting. Earlier on I had at least 2 (!) connectors in the wrong place!  Now all is good. I have the CMP connector on the dizzy. 
BIGTSV:
For sure. I will make a little video when all is running right and will update my website.
I appreciate the help guys.
It helps confirm what I had hoped was the problem. Especially considering that I can't seem to get the belt dead-on nuts right.
I installed a new belt when engine was out of Westy. Got the timing dead on. I removed it for some reason, and now I can't get it dead on.
Seems to run *ok* but I will check continuity etc on engine harness and visually inspect again.
It's getting closer all the time. Today is gas tank install, and rad fan/thermal sensor wiring up!
Really appreciate the input.
Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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smokeymountaindub
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Joined: March 07, 2008
Posts: 44
Location: Swannanowhere
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I'm still using Motronic M5.9..... I believe yours is Motronic M2.9.
The only real difference I think are some added emmisions stuff.
I just found this post on the 'tex...... http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3011367&postid=35484668#35484668 scroll down and read TRUEBELIEVERs post.
You mentioned you were getting this code with the ignition off...... how 'bout with the car running.
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Vanagon Nut
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Joined: February 08, 2008
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Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| smokeymountaindub wrote: |
Yes, I'm still using Motronic M5.9..... I believe yours is Motronic M2.9.
The only real difference I think are some added emmisions stuff.
I just found this post on the 'tex...... http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3011367&postid=35484668#35484668 scroll down and read TRUEBELIEVERs post.
You mentioned you were getting this code with the ignition off...... how 'bout with the car running. |
Hey thanks for the link. I"ll check it out.
Haven't checked codes while running. I wondered if they could be checked with engine running.
I only have the MIL (CEL light) to go by though. No VAGCOM or ? software/hardware.
Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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Vanagon Nut
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Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Just checked the post. Thanks for that. Looks like a detailed "how to" on hall sensor replacement.
I understand that the 2111 code (RPM/CPS sensor) happens with engine off (as per Bentley) I'm pretty sure that sensor is fine. If I disconnect it while engine running, the engine stops.
The code I'm concerned with is 2113.
I did have the RPM sensor out to find the proper (top of compression stroke) TDC of #1 though. Pretty sure it's ok, but I'll make sure it's in right.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Not to OT, but why are you running Motronic instead of the earlier Digifant (Digijet II?) common rail FI from the early 90's A1/A2?
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
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Captain Pike
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Joined: December 30, 2003
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Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| r39o wrote: |
| Not to OT, but why are you running Motronic instead of the earlier Digifant (Digijet II?) common rail FI from the early 90's A1/A2? |
Or even basic CIS. You need to fab a dizzy but not too hard to do.(Hall w/a vacc advance)
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Vanagon Nut
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Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| r39o wrote: |
| Not to OT, but why are you running Motronic instead of the earlier Digifant (Digijet II?) common rail FI from the early 90's A1/A2? |
Basic ignorance (newbie) at some level. I had assumed that the ABA head couldn't be adapted to Digifant.
Can it?
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill W wrote: |
| r39o wrote: |
| Not to OT, but why are you running Motronic instead of the earlier Digifant (Digijet II?) common rail FI from the early 90's A1/A2? |
Or even basic CIS. You need to fab a dizzy but not too hard to do.(Hall w/a vacc advance) |
Thanks for the pointer Bill.
From what you wrote, it seems that the ABA engine could be made to run CIS.
True?
And anyone know which of the fuel injection systems is more fuel efficient?
Motronic, Digifant (1 or 2?) CIS?
Thanks,
Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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pushkick
Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2007
Posts: 1366
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:51 am Post subject: i am curious |
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| are you puting a motronic ecu on a 2.1 ? |
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Vanagon Nut
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Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: Re: i am curious |
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| pushkick wrote: |
| are you puting a motronic ecu on a 2.1 ? |
Nope.
This is in regards to the Jetta ABA (w/Motronic 2.9) I have installed in my '81 Westy.
Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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smokeymountaindub
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2008
Posts: 44
Location: Swannanowhere
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
And anyone know which of the fuel injection systems is more fuel efficient?
Motronic, Digifant (1 or 2?) CIS?
Thanks,
Neil. |
I would think Motronic is the most fuel efficient. That's my guess anyway. 
You track down the cause of this code yet?
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1996 Golf GL |
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Vanagon Nut
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Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| smokeymountaindub wrote: |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
And anyone know which of the fuel injection systems is more fuel efficient?
Motronic, Digifant (1 or 2?) CIS?
Thanks,
Neil. |
I would think Motronic is the most fuel efficient. That's my guess anyway.
You track down the cause of this code yet? |
Negatory.
Thought grounding the ECU case would help. No go.
Putting in gas tank today. Might get rad fan wired to. At least hot wired, so I can do a short boot on the highway.
Yah I had assumed Motronic would be more efficient. And it seemed like I would introduce too many more variables by swapping on another head (1.8 head)
Which FI/engine management systems can be "bolted on" to the ABA head/engine?
Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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Captain Pike
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Joined: December 30, 2003
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Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'll write up my CIS in the morning how to go "no brain"
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LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
.....................All Current....................... |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill W wrote: |
| I'll write up my CIS in the morning how to go "no brain" |
I've always wondered if the CIS (not including CIS-E I presume), was a more reliable system.
That sounds good Bill. I look forward to it.
Neil.
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1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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