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deadaheadub
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2004
Posts: 787
Location: New Mexico
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 Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: Pic of cooling hose for 70A alternator |
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Can anyone post a pic of the little nipple/hose & connection that goes from the engine tin to the 70A alternator to cool it? I don't think mine has it, but I was told that '76 Westies came with them. I'm thinking of upgrading to the 70A in case I add an auxiliary battery for camping- would the 70A be valuable for extra charging power if I did? Or unnecessary?
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51128
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Bleyseng
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Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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you can buy them from Busdepot and the difference is the end that plugs into the alt is round instead of kinda oblong for the 55amp alt.
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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WhirledTraveller
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Joined: January 09, 2008
Posts: 1399
Location: Cambridge, MA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: Pic of cooling hose for 70A alternator |
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| deadaheadub wrote: |
Can anyone post a pic of the little nipple/hose & connection that goes from the engine tin to the 70A alternator to cool it? I don't think mine has it, but I was told that '76 Westies came with them. I'm thinking of upgrading to the 70A in case I add an auxiliary battery for camping- would the 70A be valuable for extra charging power if I did? Or unnecessary?
Thanks |
It would be of marginal extra value, depending somewhat on the size of the extra battery and how you use it. The main value (and purpose) of the more powerful alternator is to run more accessories with the engine running without drawing down the battery. That's why Canadian buses with the gas heaters had the larger alternator - to run the current draw of the heater.
Of course a larger capacity alternator will charge a deeply discharged battery faster. But faster is not necessarily better... rapid charging can cause overheating and can be destructive. Recommended max charge rate for long battery life is usually around C/8. That's capacity in Amp-Hours divided by 8. So if you have a 100 Amp-Hour battery you should charge at no more than 12.5 Amps. Obviously a 70 Amp Alternator can charge much faster than this.... good if you want the battery charged quick, bad if you want it to last a long time.
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1977 Westy, Automatic. Big Valve heads, CS Cam. |
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deadaheadub
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Joined: April 18, 2004
Posts: 787
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Great info as usual. Thanks for the replies.
So the big difference is the shape of the cooling boot?
I was under the impression there was an additional tube coming from inside the engine compartment out to the alternator body, besides the cooling boot. No?
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51128
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Nope, no difference on the engine except for the alternator end of the boot, and the harnes to the starter. No additional tubes, etc..
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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deadaheadub
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2004
Posts: 787
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks, Busdaddy-o |
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Oil Phil-M
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Joined: October 08, 2005
Posts: 541
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I just swapped out a 55A unit for a 70A and found that the tin around the pulley side of the alternator was different to accomodate the fan blades on the 70A pulley which the 55A lacks. In my case it went into a 72 which I don't think had a 70A option so later tin might be different. |
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NASkeet
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Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: 1972~79 VW 17/18/2000 Type 2, Bosch 70A alternator |
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| Oil Phil-M wrote: |
| I just swapped out a 55A unit for a 70A and found that the tin around the pulley side of the alternator was different to accomodate the fan blades on the 70A pulley which the 55A lacks. In my case it went into a 72 which I don't think had a 70A option so later tin might be different. |
I don't think I have ever seen a 1972~79 VW 17/18/2000 Type 2, with a Bosch 70A alternator, which seem to be exclusive to North America.
What do they and their associated parts look like?
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Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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Bleyseng
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: |
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a 70amp alt with boot without the fan
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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deadaheadub
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Joined: April 18, 2004
Posts: 787
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Bleyseng wrote: |
a 70amp alt with boot without the fan
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That looks like the 55A, except the boot is circular. The pulley looks the same;
| Oil Phil-M wrote: |
I just swapped out a 55A unit for a 70A and found that the tin around the pulley side of the alternator was different to accomodate the fan blades on the 70A pulley which the 55A lacks. |
where/how do the fan blades attach to the 70A? |
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NASkeet
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Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| deadaheadub wrote: |
| Bleyseng wrote: |
a 70amp alt with boot without the fan
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That looks like the 55A, except the boot is circular. The pulley looks the same;
| Oil Phil-M wrote: |
I just swapped out a 55A unit for a 70A and found that the tin around the pulley side of the alternator was different to accomodate the fan blades on the 70A pulley which the 55A lacks. |
where/how do the fan blades attach to the 70A? |
Presumably, there is a different sheet-steel alternator cover, with circular duct, to connect to that rubber elbow-shaped boot!?!
I have two 55A alternators, with that type of pulley and two 55A alternators, with the earlier type of pulley.
What kind of coverplate and plastic seal does one use, at the pulley end of the alternator?
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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NOVA Bus
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Joined: April 18, 2005
Posts: 517
Location: Herndon, VA
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germansupplyscott
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Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7093
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| deadaheadub wrote: |
| That looks like the 55A, except the boot is circular. The pulley looks the same; |
the pulley in that photo is not the correct one. there's more info in this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=261398
all late buses uses the same alternator cover tin (pulley end) and plastic ring. both the alternator and ring are now NLA from original sources. bosch no longer remans the al108 and the rings have been gone for about a year.
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http://germansupply.com/home/customer/product.php?productid=17165
it's ironic and unfortunate that once someone ponied up to reproduce the al108 cooling elbow, shorty afterwards bosch stopped producing the alternator itself.
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Randy in Maine
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Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:28 am Post subject: |
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I opted to stay with the 55 amp alternator. I have never had an issue with inadequate charging or both batteries.
I am pleased with my decision. I don't need more power. |
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germansupplyscott
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Joined: May 22, 2004
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Location: toronto
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: |
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you know randy, it's easy to think that, but if you are using the leisure battery a lot, or if you were to have double leisure batteries installed for longer time available on battery, the extra amperage in the alternator will come in handy. i can see wanting 100A charging capacity.
i am working on some interesting stuff right now around the leisure battery system. i just did a second battery installation on a 78 bus with new charging technology parts. there are new components available that do a much better job than the stock parts in this area. we are working on a new refrigerator retrofit in the stock cabinet that will bring the fridge up many notches in performance and battery life. if you want to camp off grid for days at a time and still want a bit of power, these upgrades can make the quality of life improve.
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Randy in Maine
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Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:07 am Post subject: |
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I guess it really depends on how you camp and what you are running for electrical draw as to what you need.
I only camp in one spot for a couple of days at a time and generally do some driving in between or am able to plug in to shore power for recharging. 55 amps is still OK for me for now. |
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germansupplyscott
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Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7093
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:18 am Post subject: |
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yes, totally understood.
i am working with a supplier who specializes in off-grid technology and his mantra is that the more power you can make and store, the better. i guess it is rubbing off on me a bit.
this guy has a huge battery bank in his econoline van and a big alternator in the van. he uses the truck all day for deliveries and stores all the excess power he makes, then he goes home to his off-grid house and plugs his van into his house and has all the power he needs.
it is this sort of thinking that is rubbing off. he makes and stores totally free power while driving and if you have a big alternator and a battery bank to store the power, you can do the same in a VW bus, especially if you're driving long hauls every few days. the stock 55a alternator and small single leisure battery work fine, that is what we have in our own camper, but there are some interesting upgrades available and that is what i am working on. it's good stuff.
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NASkeet
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Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: Increasing alternator current output |
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| germansupplyscott wrote: |
yes, totally understood.
i am working with a supplier who specializes in off-grid technology and his mantra is that the more power you can make and store, the better. i guess it is rubbing off on me a bit.
this guy has a huge battery bank in his econoline van and a big alternator in the van. he uses the truck all day for deliveries and stores all the excess power he makes, then he goes home to his off-grid house and plugs his van into his house and has all the power he needs.
it is this sort of thinking that is rubbing off. he makes and stores totally free power while driving and if you have a big alternator and a battery bank to store the power, you can do the same in a VW bus, especially if you're driving long hauls every few days. the stock 55a alternator and small single leisure battery work fine, that is what we have in our own camper, but there are some interesting upgrades available and that is what i am working on. it's good stuff. |
There is no such thing as free power! Any electrical energy stored by the baterries, must be generated by using additional fuel in the engine, at circa <30% conversion efficiency.
I know I have previously mentioned them in the context of modified heating systems, but I wonder whether the 1980~83 VW 2000 Vanagon cooling system, with separately cooled alternator, would offer the option of using readily available, higher current capacity alternators, of either Bosch or other brands, originating from more modern vehicles.
Of course one would have to resolve the issue of how to blow air, through the heat exchangers; possibly using a separate belt-driven or electric fan.
Another option, would be to leave the factory-stock charging system as it is, and run one or even two supplementary alternators in parallel, with separate belt drives, which I think was a Volkswagen M-Code option.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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Bleyseng
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:02 am Post subject: |
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I am going to run the 70amp alt and a deap cycle Optima battery for the leisure battery. I like to camp off any grid when I do and the extra drag really is minor on the Camper Special.
Ok Randy, whats this refer conversion?????? 
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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