Cruise Control troubleshooting

[Rhinoculips]

My dealer installed electronic servo cruise control is not functioning. So I am looking for a wiring diagram for it and can't find anything. I can not find any manufacture label on it. Does anyone know how I can find such a wiring diagram? Are the dealer installed cruise controls the same from one dealer to the next?

I am planning to check the clutch and brake switches and trace the wires from front to back to look for damaged wires. Past that, I am at a loss to what else I can do. Any tips?

Thanks
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“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds.” - Edward Abbey

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[larrytrk]

post a few pics of engine unit and control stalk, etc. Maybe we can identify it.
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It's all in your mind.
I Hate BAMBI!
87 Westy full camper "Bluie" aka-"busturd"
JUST SOLD HER, WESTYLESS!
Good by cruel world!

[Rhinoculips]

Where is the VSS for this thing? I can't find any kind of speed sensor. There is nothing on the backside of the speedo where I assume the factory added CC would be, nor on the drive shaft. How does this thing know what speed to hold?

Good idea idea on adding photos(duh!), so here they are -

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“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds.” - Edward Abbey

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[dragonfire709]

Id be interested in this,too. My CC is a very similar unit to that and ive never been able to work out how to fix it. It would be cool to have that working .
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My name is Roy

[larrytrk]

you may have a magnet on the CV joint, with wiring to a pickup, going to the control unit.
My first 83 Westy had this system installed.
The top picture looks like the servo to the throttle on the engine.
The unit is a universal one, it need some way to correlate speed, if the magnet is gone, that very well may be the problem unless the box is blown.
Adjustment was a pain in the ass until I finally got it right.

Also do a search. Aftermarket Cruise control, dogpilot has info posted.
ck http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=256451&highlight=dana+cruise
_________________
It's all in your mind.
I Hate BAMBI!
87 Westy full camper "Bluie" aka-"busturd"
JUST SOLD HER, WESTYLESS!
Good by cruel world!

[Rhinoculips]

[larrytrk]

[Rhinoculips]

[Rhinoculips]

Also, on the black "brain"(?) box there is an adjustment to set it for 4, 6 or 8 cylinders. Could this indicated that it has something on the engine itself that signals how often the engine is firing, thus a VSS signal?

How do you set the centering adjustment?
_________________
“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds.” - Edward Abbey

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[Rhinoculips]

OK, I finally got around to tracing all the wires and seeing where they go. Here is the rundown from right to left in the photo below.

White - Diesel use only
Blue - Cold wire of brake circuit (under dash)
Orange - Hot wire of brake circuit (under dash)
White - Electronic servo in engine compartment
Orange - Electronic Servo in engine compartment
Yellow - Electronic Servo in engine compartment
Blue - Electronic Servo in engine compartment
Red - Power
Green - Electronic servo in engine compartment
Green - Ground
Black - Engine compartment
Brownish pink - Engine compartment
Green (changes to black) - control stock
Red (changes to white) - control stock
Blue (changes to red) - control stock
Black (Changes to blue) - control stock
White (tied into black going to blue) - control stock

The two wires that are bold/underlined (black and brownish pink wires) that go to the engine compartment I believe one went to the coil and the other to the engine block. There was no standard VSS to any wire going to the cruise control. I am assuming the one going to the coil will tell the CC how fast the engine is firing and thus the reason you must adjust the cc box to how many cylinders you have.

Since I have a Subaru EJ22 with no coil, can this CC set up still be used? Where would the wire originally going to the coil be connected too?

I still haven't found any reason why the cruise control was not working pre-conversion, so if this unit can work for my new engine, I will need to test continuity of the wires going from the dash to the engine compartment, how do you do this on such long wires?

_________________
“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds.” - Edward Abbey

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[syncrodoka]

[Rhinoculips]

[syncrodoka]

I understand now. The coil pack is actually like 4 small coils in one package that fire in pairs. I don't know for sure if you can tap into the wiring and get a useable signal for your CC.

[DAIZEE]

:snipersmile: that's how I feel about CC, personal opinion
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'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[Howesight]

Your cruise control is definitely based on engine RPM and not on vehicle speed. That's why the control unit needs you to set the correct choice of cylinders. The connection to the coil sends all four spark signals (the spark occurs when power to the coil is cut) and interprets engine speed by counting the pulses and dividing by 4 or 6 or 8 as the case may be. I cannot say where on the Subie ignitor you could attempt to connect your RPM signal wire. If your tach is hooked up and running, you might splice into the feed wire to the tach. See Tom Shiels' website for some more insights or better yet, post your question on the Vanagon/subaru Yahoo forum.

Good luck!

[Witless Joe]

I installed an Audiovox CCS-100 cruise control in my diesel van. No coil, obviously, so initially I didn't know whether it would work.

In fact, it works just fine with no coil input. Contrary to what Howesight said, for this Audiovox model anyway, it does indeed work only off the vehicle speed (ie. magnets on the CV joints, or VSS plug from the speedo) and NOT the engine RPM.

The signal for engine RPM is only used as a sensor to protect the engine from over-revving if the driver stepped on the clutch and held it down, while the vehicle speed slowed. That saves the installer from having to mount a specific "kill" switch on the clutch pedal. If your system has no "kill" switch on the clutch pedal, then it probably uses the coil/tach input wire exactly the same way.

If you get tired of poking around with this unit, an Audiovox CCS-100 can be had brand new for under $100, it's easy to install, and then you can forget all about wiring in your coil. All it means is that you have to step on the brake, or switch the unit "OFF" to kill it. It's very unusual to be in a situation where the cruise was engaged and you step on the clutch without also stepping on the brake anyway... I suppose downshifting for a steep grade would trigger this issue (brake tap or "OFF" switch necessary), but I don't use the cruise on steep grades anyway.

[syncrodoka]

[Rhinoculips]

[MarkWard]

Not to disagree with the experts, but I don't believe this unit uses rpm to maintain speed. The early vw dealer add-on cruise controls from the mid 70's to mid 80's for all their models used a coil attached to the trans and had 4 small magnets glued to the cv joint and then wrapped in packing tape. In the picture you can see the "centering" adjustment and "sensitivity adjustment. Once we installed the cruise systems, we'd drive around an "tune" the boxes. They worked very well. What is odd in the other picture is the cruise stock. It looks to be factory. The aftermarket kits we installed had an add-on stalk that was either seperate or added on to the T/S switch. These units were the same ones Sear's used to sell with a different label.

Step ahead. During the 80's VW started to offer cruise control as a factory option on their models. Installing aftermarket cruise controls at the dealer pretty much dried up. When the factory installed units came along, screwed to the back of the speedo head with two tiny screws was a two wire speed sensor or VSS. It is likely your unit may have used that factory sensor for a speed reference. All of the Vanagon speedo heads have this "knock-out, but only after 84 for certain would it work. I would take a gander there. I am using a cluster from an 86 and a 3 wire VSS to run my cruise control. If an aftermarket kit is still available, it might be worth your time to start with something new. I could not imagine taking long trips without cruise on my Vanagon. One of the best upgrades I made. The above history is from personal experience. Your results may vary.
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[davevickery]

I had trouble with my cruise control an I did not find not a lot of online posts for the Vanagon so here is mine. I hope I am not hijacking this thread, the title was a good match even though the original post seems to be for a dealer installed aftermarket cruise control and my post applies to Troubleshooting an 87 Vanagon Westy stock cruise control (with manual transmission)

Troubleshooting:
1. First check the fuse for the cruise control, or see if your rear wiper functions, they are both on the same fuse, #12. Check your brake lights, if neither comes on, the cruise won’t work.
2. The Bentley troubleshooting diagram is a good first place to start, in my manual it is on page 27.29. The wiring diagram is good too, in my book it’s 97.177
3. Check the shutoff switches on the brake and clutch levers, called vacuum vent valves. They need to show continuity when the pedals are up, and no continuity when you depress them a little bit. They also need to hold vacuum when up. These are apparently the #1 cause of problems. So if you check everything, and still have problems, come back to these and triple check. They can get out of adjustment or get dirty inside.
4. Check for vacuum leaks. I found some posts about different ways to test for vacuum leaks. Some were simply like blowing into the hose that goes to the diaphragm that connects to the throttle body. You can test vacuum directly by jumping both terminal 4 and terminal 7 to ground. The motor should run and the diaphragm should pull the throttle open. I didn’t have to do any of these as my problem was in the brake switch.

If your speedometer is not working, your cruise won’t either as it gets its signal off the back of the speedometer housing where there are 2 pins connected to a white plug. I don’t think those go bad very often either. I think they can get put on backwards, which I am guessing would make the cruise not work, but I didn’t test that idea. My cruise will activate at speeds above 25 mph.

The cruise system is made up of these parts; steering column control with 4 pin plug, speed sensor on speedo, computer behind glove box, shutoff switches on the pedals, vacuum pump in right rear corner of engine compartment, hoses running the length of the van underneath, and vacuum diaphragm connected to throttle body.

Brake & Clutch Switches: The vacuum vent valves have 2 ways to disable the cruise, vacuum and electrical. The vacuum hose connected to the pedal switch goes all the way to the back and connects to the pump. If air leaks into that hose, the pump won’t be able to hold a vacuum. The electrical part of switch simply allows current to flow when the pedals are up. Both parts need to work for the cruise to operate but the vacuum part is not part of the electrical troubleshooting routine. For that test, you jump terminal 1 (power) to terminal 3 (vacuum vent cutoff). The test light will light up when you turn the key and the cruise control on, and it should go out when you depress either pedal and come back on again when you let go. You vacuum part of this switch does not have anything to do with the electrical circuit and you can have no vacuum but the vent valves will still show continuity. You can remove the switch by unscrewing it, and you can adjust it by screwing it in or out so it contacts the pedals correctly. You just want to see continuity when the pedals are up and break continuity when you depress the pedal a bit. Too tight on the brake switch and you may be holding the pedal down a little bit and keeping your break lights on (which may disable the cruise I am not sure). When my cruise was working, the brake peddle switch was suspect because cruise would quit when I hit a bump and so I was messing around while driving and I noticed if I just gently touched the peddle, not even depressed it, the cruise would also go off. I wasn’t sure if I had a loose wire somewhere else, but I should have paid more attention to the brake switch. It showed continuity during my test, then later it didn’t, and I didn’t know what to make of it. They are a wear item and get dirty and I should have just replaced it, $40 online. The vent part of the switch can apparently be tested by simply plugging the line that comes off the switch, and see if you’re cruise is working again. That wouldn’t help if there is a leak in the line or the diaphragm or one of the hose connections but it would might give you a quick answer.

Rear Brakes: You can see in the Bentley wiring diagram that the cruise control wiring has a ground connection through the brake lights. I didn’t figure out exactly how this works, but I read that if both brake lights are out, the cruise control will not operate. So you might as well check that up front.

Unlikely Causes: From reading posts, I gathered that the computer rarely craps out, same with the column switch only it gets old and sometimes starts acting funny, like cruise going out when using turn signals. The Bentley tests for the column control are simple and you should be able to find out if your switch or wiring is a problem very easily.

Bentley Troubleshooting Routine: The troubleshooting sequence is pretty straight forward and makes sense to me now but it didn’t at first. The Bentley wiring diagrams are also good but it takes a lot of time to understand how to read them. Making little jumper wires is handy so you can stick them in the terminal and they will stay without hold them. You can figure out which pin is which by looking at the Bentley but the #8 (ground) is a brown wire.

The Bentley uses a test light which is simpler. If you are not experienced with a multi meter you might add to your trouble by having the multi meter set to current and testing for voltage, or vice versa. You disconnect the computer from the wiring plug and you test the plug directly thereby ignoring the computer. If you get to the end of the tests, having passed everything, the Bentley concludes that you must have a bad computer.

Following the Bentley routine is easy. If the light lights up you pass that test. I suppose if you got only a faint light, maybe you could have a loose wire or something but I think 99% of the time the test light would be fine. Here is one problem I ran into not being experienced in testing electrical issues. When testing the vacuum pump, the Bentley says connect a jumper. The tests before that had you connecting a test light (which has the convenient alligator clips), so I continued to use it as my jumper. That is an important distinction because the test light requires current and for some reason if you use a test light as your jumper, you won’t pass vacuum pump test and the motor will not run, but the light will light up. That never crossed my mind, but it is little things like that which can be confusing. Read the Bentley carefully, they don’t add any warnings about what you might do wrong. On top of that the Bentley sometimes is missing a key sentence or something. In this vacuum pump test, the Bentley does not say have the key on and the cruise switch on like it says in the other steps where applicable, but you do need to. That would be fairly obvious by now if you a going through the tests. First they have you check ground, then power(cruise on/off switch), then use the power to check other parts of the system. So it makes sense that the cruise and key need to be on. I ran my battery down because I spent a lot of time checking and rechecking, but you can run the engine too. You won’t hear the vacuum pump running over the sound of the engine so you will need to shut it off for that one.

The Bentley troubleshooting routine tests each component independently. So as long as you pass the first 2 tests for power and ground, the other tests will work whether or not you have multiple things wrong. For example, the test for the pump will work by itself even if you have a bad pump valve or a vacuum leak or your vacuum vent valves are bad. The troubleshooting routine though doesn’t go any further than identifying the circuit that is bad. For example if you fail the vacuum pump test, it says replace the pump, but you could have a loose wire or something. You can check continuity from the plug at the front all the way to the rear by the pump. You can use the test light at the plug too and if it lights up when you do the #4 terminal pump test, the wiring is good. But you need to jump the wire not put a test light on it, if you want the motor to run.

Vacuum Pump: The pump motor has a valve in it that is normally open and when activated closes which allows for the vacuum to build up. The test for that is jumping terminal 7 to ground and you will hear a click of the valve closing. That is why there are 3 wires on the plug to the pump, brown for ground and green for the pump, and green and white for the pump valve. In normal operation, both the vent valve and the pump will be getting power. You can test the pump directly off the battery if you fail the troubleshooting sequence for the pump (the Bentley just says replace the pump- which I first did before testing that it was o.k.) The valve will click each time you apply power and the motor will hum loudly.

VW, Saab, Audi: There are a lot of similarities to other cruise control systems, Saab, Audi and other VW models. The pump is almost a generic VW part, the vacuum vent valves are the same on several VW models. I searched outside vanagon sites for "Cruise Control Troubleshooting" and found a lot more.