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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2700
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: identifying an oil leak (pics) (type4 motor) |
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So I have an oil leak seemingly out of nowhere. Trans is rebuilt 2 years ago, motor one year ago. (AVP rebuild on the motor, German trans from Bend OR for the trans)
Ive circled in this picture where it seems like the oil is coming from, at least when it's sitting for a while, this is where the drips seem to form:
After running around town for a bit and then stopping, this is what appears after about 30 minutes:
What's odd is that while it seems like oil, I don't appear to be low on oil either.
One last shot of the area:
any thoughts on whats leaking, or where I may look to tighten this up and stop it?
thanks, |
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dreadnotmusic Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2003 Posts: 880 Location: Guam, USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Unless you've just taken it off, you appear to not have a fuel pump block off plate. Your case is from a 72-74. Oil runs downhill, not up; so the oil up there is an indication that it's coming from up above. _________________ 66 Riviera |
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2700
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: |
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I didnt intend to take anything off, I guess it can just fall off?
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: |
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That's where the fuel pump would be if it was equipped for one but that ones not machined or drilled, FI engine.
What does the oil smell like? Engine or transmission? One of the seals in there is leaking, crankshaft main seal or trans. input shaft. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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fastmc25 Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2004 Posts: 1191 Location: East Tennessee
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Nope..... yours never came with one..... that's normal looking..... notice no thread inserts?
My guess is either the front main seal or tranny input shaft seal....
One drop of oil goes a long way... _________________ Peace,
Paul
1973 Type181 Kubelwagen (Thing 2 ) 2110cc
1971 Transporter (Pickle) 1914cc
1961 Deluxe Beetle (Christine) 1776cc
1973 Adventurewagen Baja Bus (Clyde) 3.4L
1970 Formula Vee Beetle 2276cc
I identify as: “A Pissed Old GI ” |
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dreadnotmusic Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2003 Posts: 880 Location: Guam, USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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I didn't realize that the FI engines still had the boss for the mechanical pump. Cool.
Either way there's still a good bit of oil around it. _________________ 66 Riviera |
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2700
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: |
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darn, it was starting to sound like an easier fix than what its going to end up being now....
of the possible sources, all involve dropping the trans to replace? |
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thewalrus Big Jack
Joined: March 27, 2006 Posts: 3014 Location: Belchertown, MA
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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fastmc25 wrote: |
My guess is either the front main seal or tranny input shaft seal.... |
X2... bummer!! _________________ '73 Transporter 1.7L Dual Carb
notchboy wrote: |
You ran over some #Vanlife'ers hopes and dreams? |
60vwnewengland wrote: |
Looking forward to next weekend, weed, krunk juice, hookers, blow, hanging with bums, philly, ...the awards! |
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GusC2it Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2005 Posts: 1376 Location: Orlando, Florida, USA
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2700
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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"just" remove the engine he says.
it's unfortunately not a task im equipped for, and frankly didn't expect id have to do again so soon after just having the whole motor replaced... |
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josh Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2003 Posts: 1773 Location: laid back in the tall grass
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like a small leak to me. If you can't fix it now put a drip pan under it and keep an eye on the oil level. _________________
modok wrote: |
...If If stoner A takes a hit and then stoner B goes right away(not waiting two seconds), he's trying to suck on it while it's still got a vaccum, doesen't get much of a hit at all! Cause it hasn't filled back up all the way yet.
Stoner A is cylinders #2/4 B is #1/3 The plugged bowl is the throttle, the bong is the manifold |
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GusC2it Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2005 Posts: 1376 Location: Orlando, Florida, USA
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2700
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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it was a rebuilt motor from AVP, installed by my local shop.
July of 2006 was when the install of the rebuild was done, so it's been a little over 2 years now actually...
I checked my receipt, and it does show that a new 'input shaft seal' was installed at the time.
I didn't see anything about a flywheel seal in my invoice, but im guessing thats all part of the rebuild from AVP and wouldn't have been charged separate by the local shop...
so, 2 years, 2 months and 12,768 miles and the flywheel seal is done already. - im guessing this isn't the normal wear and tear, and either something was faulty part-wise, install-wise or (im assuming) operator-error? |
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GusC2it Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2005 Posts: 1376 Location: Orlando, Florida, USA
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fastmc25 Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2004 Posts: 1191 Location: East Tennessee
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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I can tell ya it depends on how the engine is run/maintained , also..... if it's gotten hot a few times under hard driving i've seen them fail....
I've seen new ones fail .... sometimes folks forget to lube the sealing surface before the install the flywheel and it'll cook the seal right away.... brand of seal used can make a difference.... German vs. Brazilian vs. Chinese.... who knows ...
12,768 miles sounds pretty good depending on the above info... I have also seen seals go for a long time and never leak..... It's a crapshoot sometimes... _________________ Peace,
Paul
1973 Type181 Kubelwagen (Thing 2 ) 2110cc
1971 Transporter (Pickle) 1914cc
1961 Deluxe Beetle (Christine) 1776cc
1973 Adventurewagen Baja Bus (Clyde) 3.4L
1970 Formula Vee Beetle 2276cc
I identify as: “A Pissed Old GI ” |
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2700
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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btw, I had a chance to check out your baja bus pics and all I can say is - wow.
followed of course by "I want one" ;p
power, space for camping stuff, and some off road abilities = really can't be beat. |
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fastmc25 Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2004 Posts: 1191 Location: East Tennessee
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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airkooledchris wrote: |
btw, I had a chance to check out your baja bus pics and all I can say is - wow.
followed of course by "I want one" ;p
power, space for camping stuff, and some off road abilities = really can't be beat. |
Thanks, It's fun... _________________ Peace,
Paul
1973 Type181 Kubelwagen (Thing 2 ) 2110cc
1971 Transporter (Pickle) 1914cc
1961 Deluxe Beetle (Christine) 1776cc
1973 Adventurewagen Baja Bus (Clyde) 3.4L
1970 Formula Vee Beetle 2276cc
I identify as: “A Pissed Old GI ” |
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2700
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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went on my first long hard journey since this began and it looks like ill need to address this sooner than later....
after about 100 miles of hard up and down hills nonstop, it leaks like a bastaad. say a 8 inch round puddle after 15 minutes of sitting after being at 220 for oil temp, and the oil pressure was down just below 20 PSI at full power/rpm's.
crankshaft mail seal sounds like the culprit, just drop the motor and pull the flywheel? do you lower the trans in the process, or can you just unbolt it from the trans and lower the motor out of the way?
(if thats an obvious question, ill consult my manuals as well of course before starting anything...) |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Ooooohhhhhh..., yeah, I'd say it's time to drop it.
You can get the engine out without doing anything to the trans but it goes a whole lot smoother if you remove the 2 upper carrier bolts above the bellhousing and drop the trans roughly 2"-4" onto a milk crate or similar support under it. You'll need a 15mm wrench or socket.
It's hard to get the engine back enough to clear the trans without running into the rear apron if you don't. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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SlowLane Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1044 Location: Livermore, CA
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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airkooledchris wrote: |
crankshaft mail seal sounds like the culprit, just drop the motor and pull the flywheel? |
It's surprisingly easy to install the main seal cock-eyed. Just make sure that it's seated into the case all the way 'round.
And be sure to replace the flywheel O-ring, too. It's often overlooked. It fits into a groove in the bottom of the "socket" in the flywheel where the crankshaft goes. If I recall, Bentley doesn't really show this relationship well, and it's easy to think (wrongly) that the O-ring goes onto the crank before you mount the flywheel. Nope, you install the O-ring into the flywheel before you mount it to the crank. _________________ Present:
'81 Westfalia: 2L, manual. Originally Canadian, now Californiated
Back in the day:
'72 Super Beetle
'69 Camper Van - Corvair powered
'71 Window Van - Transferred Corvair from '69
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." - Internet RFC 1925
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." - Sir Terry Pratchett |
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