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steve davignon
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Joined: March 25, 2006
Posts: 129
Location: eastpointe michigan
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 Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: Bug motor into Syncro Vanagon? |
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| would a 1600 aircooled beetle motor fit up to a vanagon syncro trans? thanks |
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Perales
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Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 2046
Location: Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Why would you want to do that? Vanagons are underpowered enough as is, and a Synchro???
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McVanagon
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Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern part of the Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: Re: bug motor into syncro vanagon |
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| steve davignon wrote: |
| would a 1600 aircooled beetle motor fit up to a vanagon syncro trans?thanks |
AWD Sandrail?
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steve davignon
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Joined: March 25, 2006
Posts: 129
Location: eastpointe michigan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: |
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my friend is buying one with a blown motor and wants to put his beetle motor in.i told him that 1600 would not move it like it should,but he wants to try it if it fits.
Last edited by steve davignon on Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PDXWesty
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Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6247
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| what is it...like 45-50 Hp? You might not even get it to roll. |
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vwlovr
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Joined: May 21, 2006
Posts: 1122
Location: on the road
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| PDXWesty wrote: |
| what is it...like 45-50 Hp? You might not even get it to roll. |
well hopefully your friend has enough sense to put in a pimped out bug motor into it. bored out and turbo'd and you could have plenty of hp to push a syncro. surpassing the stock WBX power output is not what i'd call difficult.
unless he already has a pimped out bug motor, why not do a pimped out type 4 motor from massive or FAT? i would assume that that is more likely to bolt up easier. |
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danfromsyr
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Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Ooooo YEAH IT'LL FIT..
make sure you take plenty of images.. and REPORT BACK TO US on his PROGRESS.. include some highway footage.. or at least back yard hill work.
I would suspect it'd move it but require alot of down shifting on the highway and seriously need to slip the clutch with RPMs for hills and such.. but the granny low may overcome that for off pavement & hills.
what it won't do is fit under the engine lid.
now a good old 1500cc type 3 engine.. now your stylin baby..
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Steelhead
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Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 1791
Location: Kentfield, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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seems like a bad idea. As his friend, you are now obligated to convince him not to bother.
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mightyart
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Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Ah, no. |
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?Waldo?
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Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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You could probably fit a Briggs and Stratton... You wouldn't even have to wire the ignition, just pull-chord it.
Andrew |
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Volksaholic
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Joined: December 26, 2005
Posts: 1771
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds to me like it would be more trouble that it's worth.
Let's see... the downsides:
Less reliable than a decent 2.1L
Won't bolt straight up to the bell housing, so he needs an adapter plate
It will need a modified flywheel to match up to the starter
It will need cooling tin around the engine
Fan shrouding will stick up into the rear deck area (as Dan just pointed out)
No cabin heat
Carburetted engine
Mechanical points
Mechanical lifters that need regular adjustment
About 1/2 the power
The upsides:
He already has the engine
He's familiar with Type 1 engines
Don't get me wrong... I've loved my old Splitties with 1600 DP engines, but it's a much lighter van with very low gearing adapted to that application. VW used the 1600 DP engine in the early bays, but when they went to the Type IV engine it was a big improvement in HP, cooling, and oil filtration. Do him a huge favor and strongly suggest he beg, borrow, or save for at least a decent used 2.1 WBX.
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mightyart
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D Clymer
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Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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For what it's worth, VW did put a 1600 Type 1 engine into the Vanagon in Europe from 1979-1983. They retrofitted a Type 4 style cooling fan to make it low enough for the Vanagon compartment, though. A standard Type 1 doghouse fan shroud would be way too tall - even for a Syncro. But in answer to your question, yes, a bug engine will bolt up to the Vanagon transmission. The flywheels are not interchangeable, though, since the T1 uses a glandnut attachment and the wbx uses a T4 style flange.
David |
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allsierra123
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Joined: August 19, 2006
Posts: 1462
Location: Tecate, Baja California MX
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: |
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Yeah thats what I was thinking the doghouse cooler is much to tall. I wouldnt honestly waste my time with it unless you have one built pulling well over 100hp.
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Volksaholic
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Joined: December 26, 2005
Posts: 1771
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| allsierra123 wrote: |
| Yeah thats what I was thinking the doghouse cooler is much to tall. I wouldnt honestly waste my time with it unless you have one built pulling well over 100hp. |
I'm assuming that this is a stock or mildly built 1600cc or you probably would have referred to it as something other than a 1600. Even if your buddy's got one built to over 100hp I wouldn't invest the time.
I never got into the big HP air cooled engines... I mostly built them up stock or slightly built up (1776cc is as big as I was comfortable going for reliability). I've seen cases (pun intended) where folks built up engines for Splitty busses and then did stupid things like lifting the front wheels off the ground. The crank cases ended up cracking, usually up by the front main bearing. I think these cases are too lightly built for this application. It's one thing if you're putting a 100hp engine into a Bug or sand rail, but I think he'd have to really baby it in a Syncro with the extra weight. I could be totally wrong about this... someone who builds big engines would know better. It just seems like one of those plans to build it on the cheap that is probably not going to yield satisfactory results.
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dr. no
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Joined: August 06, 2004
Posts: 578
Location: Santa Fe
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| have one built pulling well over 100hp |
Bigger bore and all may get you to 100hp, but it won't keep you there. Type 1s don't have the cooling capacity (mainly fin area) to cool more that about 40hp output over any sustained time (and then only in a really temperate climate).
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Volksaholic
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Joined: December 26, 2005
Posts: 1771
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| dr. no wrote: |
| Quote: |
| have one built pulling well over 100hp |
Bigger bore and all may get you to 100hp, but it won't keep you there. Type 1s don't have the cooling capacity (mainly fin area) to cool more that about 40hp output over any sustained time (and then only in a really temperate climate). |
Folks have gone to all sort of extremes to build up Type 1 engines and cool at least the oil with external coolers, but you're right.... they're starting with a design that was really being pushed to its limits at 45-60hp. The redesigned airflow in the Type 4 engine was a big improvement... the air's directed around the cylinders instead of being stuffed down between them. The cast fan and fan housing are built to tighter tolerances and move more air. The oil cooler even has (IIRC) 3 more sections than the Doghouse cooler. So you can go to the expense of modding a Type 1 engine, which makes sense if you've got a Type 1 application, or you can invest a similar amount of money into a Type 4 aircooled or (better) a WBX.
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NASkeet
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Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: Re: bug motor into syncro vanagon |
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| steve davignon wrote: |
| would a 1600 aircooled beetle motor fit up to a vanagon syncro trans?thanks |
It is doubtful whether the engine-compartment ceiling, of a 1980~92 VW Vanagon, would be high enough to accommodate a VW 1600 Type 1 style, air-cooled engine. Of course, one could always transplant a 1980~83 VW 1600 Vanagon, CT or CZ-Series, air-cooled engine, as was common in Great Britain & Europe.
If I were going to transplant any engine into a 1980~92 VW Vanagon of any description, it would probably be the recently introduced, Subaru 2·0 litre, flat-four turbo-diesel engine in conjunction with a VW 1900 (78 horsepower petrol engine) Vanagon's 5-speed transaxle.
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bucko
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Posts: 2617
Location: Coppell, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:55 am Post subject: |
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And folks thought the diesel was slow....putting in a 1600 would be just insanely slow....
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sc-surfer
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Just tell you friend I'll sell him my 2.1 syncro motor so he can go all OG. I'll only charge him the cost of a GoWesty 2.5l. Smookin deal!
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