1st gear grinding :-/

[jackbombay]

We got back today from a huge roadtrip, the van ran great, but this morning something odd happened to the tranny.

1st engaged fine when we left "camp" this am.

I drove over a cattle grate at, uhhh, way to high of a rate of travel, everything seemed fine, nothing was seemingly hit or damaged.

Many miles later I came to a stop light, when it turned green 1st would not engage so I let the clutch out, re-depressed it and went to 2nd then 1st and 1st seemed to engage, but then popped out when I let off the clutch. I re-depressed the clutch and tried to go right into 1st again, it went, but with a pretty nasty crunch, the van drove away fine.

A while later at the next light 1st crunched pretty bad again, no matter how slowly I engage 1st it crunches, not just a little tickle either. I then proceded to go 2 --> 1 whenever needing 1st gear and it was fine all the way home as long as I did that, smooth as butter if I go into 2nd first.

The trans had a fresh change of Amsoil 75/90 weight synthetic gear lube put in it just before our trip started.

All the other gears work fine and nothing is unusual, MPGs are as normal.

Is there a possibility that the linkage just needs adjusting? Or is it something simple like a syncro that failed completely, for no reason, and can be fixed by simply rebuilding the transmission? (that was a joke) I've never had a syncro fail like that, fine one minute, then seemingly GONE the next.

Thoughts?
_________________

Gas struts to pop your top easily!
Pop Top strut kits now available for late Bay window Westies

Samba ad here.


DIY artificial rain gutters (ARGs)

[Dogpilot]

I would check two things before I donated my kidney for a new tranny. 1st the linkage can and does go out of adjustment. Ensure it is set up properly by the Bentley. Make the little block, to get the spacing in the shifter box above the spare. The plastic glide may have fallen off, so it needs to be re-spaced. The adjustment for depth of engagement on the shaft length can also be a problem.

The other item is the slave cylinder. Check and see if it is still bolted on completely or engaging the clutch all the way. If it is not completely depressing the clutch, it can cause hard shifting.
_________________
Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G

[jackbombay]

Thanks for the response! I'll keep my fingers crossed that its an adjustment.

Also, the shifter could use some new bushings, it rattles a fair bit between 3000 and 3500 RPM, I'll check it all out when I'm under there.

I also should have included that its an 82 air cooled tranny.
_________________

Gas struts to pop your top easily!
Pop Top strut kits now available for late Bay window Westies

Samba ad here.


DIY artificial rain gutters (ARGs)

[Witless Joe]

I had similar grinding symptoms when I had a bad slave cylinder, so Dogpilot may be on the money with that.

But I never had it pop *out* of gear. That sounds very ugly, and different.

Worn motor mounts and transmission mounts can throw the linkage out of adjustment. That's especially true if the bushings on the shifter are worn out too. But again, I doubt this would pop the trans out of gear.

Being a fatalist, if I was in your shoes, I'd probably drain that newly-filled trans oil (sigh), and see what kind of metal fungus is growing on the magnetic drain plug... How bad did the fluid look when you drained the old stuff?

[morymob]

Since u crossed that GUARD too fast,i would 1st go underrr & check the mounts especially the front one, for busted rubber sections,loose bolts etc. If ok id check shifter linkage because it seemed to happen on the "crossing"-a lot of mass with eng & trans trying to stay put on a rough spot.

[jackbombay]

[jackbombay]

I bled the brakes and clutch slave cylinder, the pressure bleeder blew a hole in the rotten old hose that goes from above the fluid level in the reservoir to the master cylinder, so that was some added work to fix, plus brake fluid on the carpet :-/

I adjusted the shift linkage according to the bently, first with a 19mm spacer, which left 1st unacessible, unless I pushed down for reverse and only went left a little bit. I then tried a 22mm spacer and got the same results so I tried a 25mm spacer, better, but still no consistent first gear. I then bagged the spacer all together and pushed the bottom end of the shifter all the way left and its ok now, still grinds some, better then pre adjustment, but still worse than pre cattle grate...


All the plastic bits are worn and sloppy which doesn't help anything, When I have more time earl this summer I'll buy all the plastic bits from busdepot and hopefully that will make it better.
_________________

Gas struts to pop your top easily!
Pop Top strut kits now available for late Bay window Westies

Samba ad here.


DIY artificial rain gutters (ARGs)

[jackbombay]

I checked the trans fluid and it was low a 1/2 quart, topped it up and the problem is a little better, but still there, also messed with the shifter linkage for a while which gave me a little improvement, but all in all I think the clutch disc is not sliding on the tranny input shaft so when the clutch disengages the disc is still getting spun by the flywheel. I had these same symptoms in a 240 volvo and it was a sticking clutch disc on that car...
_________________

Gas struts to pop your top easily!
Pop Top strut kits now available for late Bay window Westies

Samba ad here.


DIY artificial rain gutters (ARGs)

[Captain Pike]

[Franklinstower]

[jackbombay]

I'm not going to have time to drop my tranny till mid/late may, but when I do I'll bump this thread with my findings. I'll certainly have a new pilot bearing around, an input shaft seal, and a throwout bearing as long as I have it all apart.
_________________

Gas struts to pop your top easily!
Pop Top strut kits now available for late Bay window Westies

Samba ad here.


DIY artificial rain gutters (ARGs)

[Wildthings]

If it is a pilot bearing you are going to do damage to the input shaft, clutch disc, and transmission by continuing to drive it, plus you may well end up on the end of a tow hook. When the one went in my Bay it locked the input shaft to the engine in downtown traffic, I came within inches of rear ending the guy in front of me before I could kill the engine. A major oh s#!t moment.

[jackbombay]

I talked to the guys that rebuilt the trans, transaxleengineering.

He was VERY helpful, he told me to let it idle then cram it into reverse quick like, I did, it was fine, I did it several times, all fine, as reverse works fine he said there was no issue with clutch drag or bad pilot bearing. He asked about brass in the old fluid, there was none I could see, he said that the syncros should be fine then and the problem should be able to be cured with shift linkage adjustment. I'll go mess with that some more, unfortunately since all the plastic bits are so worn the bently specs don't even come close to applying to my van...
_________________

Gas struts to pop your top easily!
Pop Top strut kits now available for late Bay window Westies

Samba ad here.


DIY artificial rain gutters (ARGs)

[foodeater]

You may want to get in there and replace the plastic bits too. so you can actually adjust the linkage properly.
_________________
89 Bluestar-2.5 Subaru Powered-RIP
'84 Westy Tiico-daily driver-sold
'82 Caddy diesel-sold
'87 Vanagon Syncro-RIP
'81 diesel rabbit-sold
'82 Vanagon auto-RIP

[jackbombay]

So I drove all day in 4th gear, well I stopped for diesel once, but we drove ~600 miles, all interstate, all at ~65 MPH, at the end of the day I got off the interstate and went to put the van in 2nd while it was still rolling, and I got the same crunch that 1st has had since spring. Yes, I should have dealt with the tranny this summer, but I didn't, so here I am...

So the 2nd gear syncro went bad when it was not being used, Huh? Anyone have any ideas? I'm running out of good syncros! :-/
_________________

Gas struts to pop your top easily!
Pop Top strut kits now available for late Bay window Westies

Samba ad here.


DIY artificial rain gutters (ARGs)

[Wildthings]

[bucko]

Ah heck, you got 3 other good gears left; who needs first gear?

We don't need no stinkin' first gear!

Kidding aside, I'd check the adjustment as well. I'll gander an opinion that one or more bushings are worn, busted, or missing. If you or a previous owner have not replaced them, chances are they are in need of attention.

You can remove the shift bar from the transaxle and then see if the selector at the transaxle shifts smoothly into each gear (require you to do this underneath the vanagon of course, parked in your driveway).
_________________
Current VW drives: 1984 Westfalia

Past VW drives: 1967 Beetle, 1973 Beetle, 1977 Bus, 1971 Military Type 181

[jackbombay]

The bushings are certainly worn, but the van is an 82 with the 091 trans and I don't know of anywhere that sells replacement bushings :-/

When the first gear syncro initially went bad I did mess with the linkage extensively, but nothing seemed to make much difference.

All the gears work fine, its just the first 2 syncros that are not doing anyhting, pretty odd symptoms...

The trans will come out this winter and shift linkage bushings will be obtained/fabricated as needed.

[tikibus]

Whoa!

Hold it a minute. Has the 091 Tranny always been fed Dino oil or Synthetic?
I'll vote for Dino.

You've changed the formula that the 091 is used to. Yes, all of the other items are suspect.

Think Dino.

_________________
Happy Trails!
Mark
______________
Founding member of the Empire State VW Camping Club.
http://www.empirevwcamping.org/
1984 Westy - Tiki
1997 Honda Civic -The Green Hornet
1971 Volvo P-1800E- needs TLC

[jackbombay]